Ping restrictions

[Zipper5 74]

As if there wasn't enough lack of incentive for me to be playing Arma 2 online, another thing seems to have been added to that growing pile.

I can accept the lack of teamwork on certain servers, the fact many require ACE, many don't allow beta patches, etc.

But there's one thing that I cannot and will not accept - ping restrictions. It seems not only has BattlEye added the Client not responding kick, but now it gives server admins the ability to impose ping restrictions on their servers.

I can accept ping restrictions for competitive, small scale games like DM, TDM, etc. But for large scale games, even if they are meant to be competitive or not, the way Arma 2's MP works and has always worked, there's going to be a lack of synchronization no matter if your ping is 0ms or 300ms.

Arma 2 is not dependent on ping. I don't know why server admins think it is, but so long as it's not ridiculous like 500ms and above, you're good. What matters is the desync the player has. This is what will cause lag on the server, not his ping. That's how I've always experienced it.

So, as it stands, I can't join most servers using BattlEye now because my ping is always too high for their standards. This is ridiculous. I would usually go to their websites and forums to write this, but since it seems to now apply to most servers out there, I'm posting it where hopefully most of them will be able to see.

Take it off, please. I want to get back into Arma 2 MP, but with this bullshit that's going on, which I'm not necessarily sure is new, I am starting to lose complete interest in anything to do with MP in these games. It breaks my heart to think back to the glory days of playing multiple-hour-long CTIs in OFP on Everon, and to see how much it's gone downhill since then...

Edited June 23, 2010 by Zipper5

[Infam0us 10]

I agree, having had some poor connections in my time ping beneath 300 MS was never an issue. However Latency was, and still is responsible for warping and other poor gameplay. There is little need for a ping limit, and if there is it certainly does'nt need to be beneath 100MS!

[Taxman 10]

we have ours set at 200 and im sorry but if you r above that "you aint coming in" on a plus note, at least the players that do have a low ping enjoy the game that much better,,,, TBH I always felt that generally, a few HIGH pingers on a server (PvP that is) spoil it for the majority,, and its the majority that counts... but like you said maybe its diff for the larger scale battles.

[Zipper5 74]

APL is an exception, you're a competitive league. Everyone else, where even the slightest amount of lag is a non-issue, not so much. As myself and Infamous said, ping is not what matters so long as it's beneath something stupid like 500ms. It's the desync/latency you get. That's what causes issues, not your ping value. It's funny, I actually did a test and launched COD4 to see what ping I could get away with. I could get away with higher pings on COD4 than I could in Arma 2, and that is just down-right bad.

[hellfire257 3]

I thought D-sync and high ping went hand in hand? Can someone explain this to me please?

[celery 8]

I thought D-sync and high ping went hand in hand? Can someone explain this to me please?

Desync is caused by a bad client connection or excess traffic on the server. A high ping is caused mostly by distance and the number of exchange points between the client and the server, and in itself only creates traditional lag in the client's actions perceived by others.

[neokika 62]

Yes, its a shame a server with ping restrictions.

_neo_

Edited June 24, 2010 by neokika

[mosh 0]

we have ours set at 200 and im sorry but if you r above that "you aint coming in" o

I think 200 is very reasonable, but some servers have it set to 150 or lower.

Of course the bottom line is that it's their server, run it how they want, but I think 150 is a little low... I really do like to play with people from around the world, so it kind of bums me out to have such a good internet connection/speed and not get to play on a few packed servers that I unfortunately ping 3 ms over the limit.

My 2 cents, carry on.

[postal vending machine 10]

I think 200 is very reasonable, but some servers have it set to 150 or lower.

Of course the bottom line is that it's their server, run it how they want, but I think 150 is a little low... I really do like to play with people from around the world, so it kind of bums me out to have such a good internet connection/speed and not get to play on a few packed servers that I unfortunately ping 3 ms over the limit.

My 2 cents, carry on.

Yeah, if they're going to put ping limits, at least set a 5 ping tollerence, 200 ping vs 205 ping isn't going to make much difference.

Why settle for round numbers and exclude potential players that won't damage the server's performance. :confused:

Besides, ping limits is a silly idea, unless it's a tournament or hardcore CQB pvp mission.:pistols::581:

OFP, Arma, and Arma 2 (up till now) has happly managed without it.

If you don't like someone's ping simply kick the wee bastard :bye: (Explain to them why first though, so they don't go mental at you ;))

[Zipper5 74]

I think 200 is very reasonable

As I said before, ping's below something stupid like 500ms are completely fine in Arma 2 and all of BIS' games. It's the quality of the person's connection, which translates to his desync in the game, that matters. My pings are always high, around 300ms, but even the ones that were 180ms didn't let me on, but my desync 99% of the time is always 0. I've played in tournaments with such pings and higher and no complaints were made to me being laggy because of a higher than average ping, and I was in said tournament for a very long time.

[Inkompetent 0]

If anything there should be a bandwidth-threshold so that admins can set the required bandwidth depending on what missions they usually play, and with how many people.

Poor bandwidth causes issues. Poor bandwidth causes desync. Ping, unless completely off (like 1000 ping) is irrelevant.

[gossamersolid 155]

I have a ping limit of 250ms (which basically allows all players on). We've had russian players on, german players, australian players and of course north american players.

The biggest issue is when people used to come in with 500ms pings and when you're playing warfare with a laggy player it gets annoying. Here I am trying to defend a depot, but I CANNOT kill this guy because he's lagging so bad that my bullets aren't registering, but his are fine.

So then I kick him and he comes back saying "What the hell, it's not MY fault that I have dial-up". Right there I see a problem... this isn't the 90's, you CANNOT game on a dial-up connection! It ruins the experience for others.

Another great one is trying to shoot down an aircraft that is flown by a laggy person, your missile locks on to him and fires, but the missile seemingly does no damage.

Bottom line here fellows, people pay for their own servers and they say who can stay or not. If you don't like it, buy your own server and play there!

[Zipper5 74]

Dial up is an exception, and hardly anyone plays with dialup these days. Kick the bastard, and if he complains about being kicked, then simply say buy a better internet connection.

I have an ADSL line going at 4mbps and I still get relatively high pings, with it usually going to a maximum of 300ms. But as I said, and people don't seem to get - unless someone has some ridiculous ping of 500ms or above, the ping does not matter in BIS' games. It's the way the games have always worked, and I can't believe server admins still think it is...

Oh, and I still can't get on most of the servers that come up using BattlEye.

[Taxman 10]

We tend to get a lot who are downloading at the same time,, or playing wireless while auntie betty is playing bingo in the other room,, all of which causes probs.... and im sorry but ive always found that a high pinger is the one that lags REGARDLESS of desync,, (desync is obviously a reason for kick also but sometimes it can happen due to server or other issues),, one thing to mention is that the worst offenders are the ones the ones that have a ping and desycn that Fluctuate up and down.... they are a nightmare to play with....

TBH we have always kicked high pingers because they do lag and that is important in PvP and always will be.... and has been since OFP, sorry if that makes it difficult for you, but its the majority on the server that counts... ...

[gossamersolid 155]

Oh, and I still can't get on most of the servers that come up using BattlEye.

Because BattlEye is where admins set the maxPing and also BattlEye tends to timeout on people with high latencies.

[sabre4809 0]

What people must realize is the lack of accurate representation ping actually has with BIS and actually many modern games.

Another thing that hurts people like me and Zip and anyone else far from the server is someone CLOSE to the server has high ping for some reason and they will lag very very badly. A high ping due to bad connection is VERY different from someone with high ping due to distance from the server while their connection is fine.

TBH we have always kicked high pingers because they do lag and that is important in PvP and always will be.... and has been since OFP, sorry if that makes it difficult for you, but its the majority on the server that counts... ...

That is where this caves in a little, but then again in very competitive PvP it is a necessary evil.

Something I am also curious about is why when I'm running with 300+ ping and not lagging (in pub death match or ctf -- PvP so people would notice and say something) but then there's some guy with sub 100 ping and is lagging all over the place.

I can sometimes have a ping of say 180-220 and its worse for me, people say I'm laggy, than with a ping even over 500.

Then also when I'm on a local server with ping <100 I get more lag than when sometimes 400+ on a tourney server with 40+ people on.

BattlEye tends to timeout on people with high latencies.

Nothing to do with it if your connection is fine.

Like Zipper, I never had any issues what so ever at IC-ArmA with no people claiming I was lagging. Also managed to use a LD (which is my understanding requires good communication between client and server) for a large amount of time and never had issues.

[Zipper5 74]

Because BattlEye is where admins set the maxPing and also BattlEye tends to timeout on people with high latencies.

Yes, that's what I meant. It kicked me because the admins defined the ping limit which is lower than what I had. Though I do like that BattlEye helps get the hackers out, allowing admins to add automated ping limits has royally pissed me off. First time in BIS' games, was a null issue for me before.

My latency is rarely ever high, and if it is, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it and I myself would probably disconnect to try and fix it. Despite my latency being low, my ping is high because the average distance between me and the server is generally quite large, what with me being in the Middle East and most servers being in Europe. Thanks to my internet connection, though, my desync remains low. All that goes out the window when ping restrictions are put in place, and it's pretty disappointing that server admins are doing this despite the number of years we've been dealing with the same, or similar, netcoding in BIS' games.

[gossamersolid 155]

Regardless of netcode, ping does play a factor into response times. That's networking 101. I've only had one course in networking, but I know enough to tell you regardless of your "connection", if you have a high ping, you will be laggy to everybody else in the server because your connection refreshes at a slower rate to the server meaning the server cannot update information to and from you.

And like I said before, doesn't matter if it "pisses you off" because we can set ping limits... we pay good money for our servers and we like to be in control from them. Nobody is stopping you from setting up your own server.

[Zipper5 74]

Actually, the bank is stopping me. Banks don't allow 17 year olds to own bank accounts here. ;)

Of course ping plays a part but the part it plays in BIS' games has always been minuscule compared to the part it plays in other games like Counter-Strike or what have you. Especially when you're playing largescale games, be them competitive or coop, there's desynchronization no matter if there's a high pinger or not. The translation of your ping, so long as it's below something like 500ms, to visual lag for other players is hardly noticeable in BIS' games.

You may pay for your own server, but it's unbelievably annoying to be kicked from a game because you all suddenly care about pings just because BattlEye allows you to care. I lost interest in MP in BIS' games because of the lack of the recent lack of variety, but now when I go to give it a shot again I completely lose interest in it because of ping restrictions. And guess what? Both of those problems, as they have always been, are the server admins' faults. But hey, it's fine. Just a shame I now seem restricted to SP, simply because of my distance from your servers...

Edited June 24, 2010 by Zipper5

[gossamersolid 155]

Actually, the bank is stopping me. Banks don't allow 17 year olds to own bank accounts here. ;)

Of course ping plays a part but the part it plays in BIS' games has always been minuscule compared to the part it plays in other games like Counter-Strike or what have you. Especially when you're playing largescale games, be them competitive or coop, there's desynchronization no matter if there's a high pinger or not. The translation of your ping, so long as it's below something like 500ms, to visual lag for other players is hardly noticeable in BIS' games.

You may pay for your own server, but it's unbelievably annoying to be kicked from a game because you all suddenly care about pings just because BattlEye allows you to care. I lost interest in MP in BIS' games because of the lack of the recent lack of variety, but now when I go to give it a shot again I completely lose interest in it because of ping restrictions. And guess what? Both of those problems, as they have always been, are the server admins' faults. But hey, it's fine. Just a shame I now seem restricted to SP, simply because of my distance from your servers...

What country are you in that you aren't allowed to own a bank account? On another note, I'm sure you know somebody that does have a bank account and you'd be able to give them cash to do the payment.

I've always cared about ping limits, but now I can limit them myself and I don't have to manually kick people. This allows me to actually play the game and not worry about admining the server 24/7.

The Lack of variety... well that's once again up to the person who is paying hard earned cash to run a server for.

I feel like I'm talking in circles here.

[sabre4809 0]

I feel like I'm talking in circles here.

I have a great solution to your problem.

[Zipper5 74]

Well, it's also very hard for 17 year olds to get jobs here due to different laws and such. Most of the typical jobs are filled by east-Asian laborers.

Caring about ping limits is fine in games other than BIS' because BIS' games have a... "Unique" ping measurement. Most of these other games are competitive when played online. In Arma 2 the 10th of a second delay between you shooting and them dying does not matter nearly as much, especially when playing against AI in coop, and unless the player only has desync, it tends to only really affect the client, not the server, nor the rest of the people playing. And I'm talking about this from having played MP in BIS' games for years, in all sorts of different theaters.

But that last point actually brings up another point that has been bugging me since ArmA's MP started to devolve towards the same 3 large-scale coop missions being played all the time - server admins becoming lazy. These new "one size fits all" elements, some introduced in ArmA, some introduced in the past or recently with Arma 2, have caused the typical server admin in Arma 2 to become incredibly lazy. As soon as the cheaters move on, I hardly ever see admins actually administrating their servers. Instead, they choose the path that is quickest and easiest for them to set up, and leads to a very, very bland MP experience. For some reason, it has remained that way. I'm not the first to complain about it, many have before me, and many will continue to do so unless server admins take it upon themselves to change it and, believe me, if I had the means I would have my own server and try to rectify the situation as best as I could. I'm not going to do the whole "I know server administrating isn't easy" thing because I've done so in the past and the situation's only gotten worse.

I feel like the one talking in circles. Not only that, but falling on deaf ears too.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Zipper5

[Taxman 10]

Variety,,, Come to the SBS server, you can play CTf or CTF hmmmm or CTF,, and DM little bit of organised Seige, what im trying to say is that the server owners/admins are going to play the mode that they, themselves prefer to play, THE variety is in the amount of servers that you have to choose from. Im not a lazy admin,,, I just prefer to play these type of modes and so do the rest of the guys in the clan that help pay for the running of the server.... you cant expect them to run missions that they themselves dont play..

[Infam0us 10]

Im not a lazy admin

O rly?

:p

[Taxman 10]

Nope.... but in RL im a lazy fucker :) (so she tells me anyway)