Ok well I'm about to praise BI....first time since I arrived here...

[Engioc 10]

I guess this post is not totally on topic, but I have just been on the Ubi forums for AC2 and discovered Patrice has left and worse still they have plans to mass produce games on a yearly basis like Activision CoD style.

BI, please never do this, even if you do one day become one of the big rich companies. If Ubi follow through with their plans I will probably no longer be a fan, I hate mass produced games. So now I say BI, thanks for being one of the smarter developers and taking the time to make good, well thought out games, instead of mass produced games with little improvement in each installment (I'm thinking cheap ass titles like NFS, CoD, EA sports). Overproduction is a bad idea.

Anyway sorry if I broke any rules or I posted something in the wrong place or inappropriate for BI forums.

[SASrecon 0]

This is the page you're looking for:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=90092&page=10

;)

[mattxr 9]

i dont no why people think this lol but BI will Never become like that!

[Engioc 10]

This is the page you're looking for:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=90092&page=10

;)

Ok, I'll remember that for next time.

[maddogx 13]

... they have plans to mass produce games on a yearly basis like Activision CoD style...

This is typical of the modern games industry, as the large publishers are trying to milk their franchises as much as humanly possible. Shitting out near identical mainstream (= low risk) games on a regular basis is the natural result when people try to make maximum sales with minimum effort. If they could get away with taking an old game, slapping a new cover on it and calling it a sequel, they probably would.

There's no need to worry about this happening to BIS though, unless they are bought out by some large publisher like the ones you mentioned. If that ever happened I would start to worry, but not before. ;)

[katipo66 94]

i dont no why people think this lol but BI will Never become like that!

Business is business! BIS is a company, they're not modders...

[Engioc 10]

Business is business! BIS is a company, they're not modders...

Well that is true although I do agree with comments BI is not likely to take the route, and my post wasn't meant to say they would, simply saying thanks BI for not being one of them. The only real worry would be if the bigger guys decide to buy out BI as already mentioned.

[BeerHunter 0]

You can't totally blame the game companies. If the majority of gamers weren't Lemmings and didn't buy into the hype of new releases , they wouldn't buy the garbage that these companies are pumping out and the companies would be forced to produce quality games to compete against each other.

But let's face it..what hasn't been done? What can a game company put out there that hasn't been done to death already? Duke Nukem was innovative , CS was innovative , DoD was innovative , Empire was innovative. Everything else since has just basically been a re-hash of these games.

BI fortunately found a little niche and has given us one of the most realistic FPS war themes on the market. Small market compared to the MW/CoD series true , but a dedicated following non the less.And they do have a well supported quality game. Benefits of a small company interested in customer satisfaction rather than the bottom line..a labor of love.

ArmA2 is one of the few games (and I don't buy many anymore) I haven't regretted buying and will buy OA if for no other reason than to support BI. :D

[katipo66 94]

Id say the GTA series is a great example of a big company producing quality titles, MW/CoD etc are perfect for the people that enjoy them, i would never imagine BIS producing these types of games, and if they were brought out by a big bad company im sure they would have business sense to understand who their main market is for a game of this magnitude and caliber?

its all pie in the sky anyway...

[Engioc 10]

Id say the GTA series is a great example of a big company producing quality titles, MW/CoD etc are perfect for the people that enjoy them, i would never imagine BIS producing these types of games, and if they were brought out by a big bad company im sure they would have business sense to understand who their main market is for a game of this magnitude and caliber?

its all pie in the sky anyway...

Sorry but I'm not so sure of that, many times I can think of seeing smaller companies bought up because they had success with a new game, the big company comes along and tries to changes things in order to attract the wider audience they want, and often in doing so they destroy what had made it a success for the current group of fans. Example they would probably tone down the realism and add a little more arcade in an attempt to not scare people away with the sheer depth and scope of the current ArmA2. It's not exactly the easiest game for people to get in to, much steeper learning curve compared to games like CoD which as made for quick and easy pick up and play. As you said its a business and that is all the big guys care about....So they would lose the current fans, no big deal if you attract the masses of people like CoD does. I've seen it happen to so many of my favorite games from the past.

My best example of that would be again to pick on Ubi:

The Settlers used to be a GOD game, with Ubi and The Settlers 5 it became a RTS game, most people fail to see the difference, and while it may seem small to some, for me it totally changes the experience and made it look and play like just a newer version of Age of Empires (and thats not really a good thing in my book).

With regards to R* and GTA, yes I totally agree, but atm I see them as one of the few, if not the ONLY, rich and smart developer around. They have a great track record for producing quality games that needed very little patching (apart from GTA4), worthwhile DLC, and continually make sensible smart choices about how to please their fans. They are not always 100% right, but far better than most. Its rare to find a company that has both money and the brains to use it. It's a shame BI are not in the same situation because so far they have shown they are smart and do care for their fans.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Engioc

[Tonmeister 14]

... There's no need to worry about this happening to BIS though, unless they are bought out by some large publisher like the ones you mentioned. If that ever happened I would start to worry, but not before. ;)

If that ever happened, first off... I'd be disappointed and I'd stop purchasing their product. In the end I'd return to the total war titles. :rolleyes:

[l mandrake 9]

Business is business! BIS is a company, they're not modders...

Yes, but not all companies are the same (thankfully).

[katipo66 94]

Maybe after OA they will get deserved recognition? i really hope so for them.

The whole thing with Arma as opposed to COD type games (which i also enjoy a lot) is that arma requires more patience rather than a steeper learning curve, most people ive shown arma to (maybe 6-7 FPS gamers) picked it up pretty easily, they were always impressed with presentation, had no problem with movement of unit etc, its just theres no instant action... they have no problem with the cleverer than most but still dumb ass AI, most of them enjoyed the firefights when they happened and were hooked, as in i had to say ok, thats enough, go home now...

If i were a big bad company i would buy BIS and make them focus on the editor, make it possible for people to "really easily" with no need for scripting etc setup instant action type scenarios such as thomsonB's excellent Flashpoint series to being able to setup more complex warfare/zone capture type scenarios with something similar to the DAC system... you cant do that easily with the editor as it is now, sure you can throw down units and give waypoints but i think it could be a lot slicker.

That point of view might be from someone who doesn't really want to have to pull apart configs to get class names to throw in an arrays... to set up scenarios.

Anyways onwards and upwards :D

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------

Yes, but not all companies are the same (thankfully).

But business is pretty much the same across the board and most companies are in business?

just saying anythings possible? i mean the yanks brought Manchester United for the right price.

And maybe big investment would not be a bad thing for the arma title, i dont think you could dumb it down... but you could sure polish it up :D

[Flash Thunder 10]

The industry also is discouraging alot of new developers, look at all these cases of companies like Codemasters or Rockstar literally working their Developers to death just to meet some shareholder deadline.

you cant make games while rushing through the development process and also the sense of "teamwork" seems like a past quality.

Truely sad times for the gaming industry.

[katipo66 94]

The industry also is discouraging alot of new developers, look at all these cases of companies like Codemasters or Rockstar literally working their Developers to death just to meet some shareholder deadline.

you cant make games while rushing through the development process and also the sense of "teamwork" seems like a past quality.

Truely sad times for the gaming industry.

Yeah good point, i really like BIS's style of beta patch development... i dont think that type of rapport between dev and users happens anywhere else in the industry. They have obviously put a lot of blood sweat and tears into the title, and i realize a lot of people in this community have shared that with them from an early stage.

Pretty unique, maybe its saving grace from any of the negative possibilities is that its more than just a game?

[sic-disaster 311]

Well the bigger companies could look at these niches some more.

For example, nothing has been done with the concept of Battlezone where you control a hovertank in first person while also building a base (yes there is also an even older Battlezone, but i'm not talking about that one) in RTS style.

Stuff like that is untouched in these days.

Spellforce combined an RPG with an RTS, without watering them down (unlike some RTS games with some very basic RPG stats, without actually being a true RPG etc).

There could be lots of hybrids that are completely untouched.

Oh, what i would give for a true caveman game where you find a campsite, hunt for food and try to survive for say, a year while controlling every aspect of clan life.

A bit like B.C by Molyneux which got cancelled, i was looking forward to that. I'd have bought an Xbox for that game, and i normally refuse to touch a console!

[l mandrake 9]

But business is pretty much the same across the board and most companies are in business?

just saying anythings possible? i mean the yanks brought Manchester United for the right price.

And maybe big investment would not be a bad thing for the arma title, i dont think you could dumb it down... but you could sure polish it up :D

Man Utd was taken over because it is a publicly traded company. BIS is a private company, therefore remains in control of its own destiny (it can make any game it wants as it has no shareholders to keep happy.)

The 'blame' for the Man U fiasco actually lies with the board of directors back in the early 90s who sold out for a quick buck by floating the club on the stock market (they of course all banked a fortune and retired so couldnt care less what became of their 'beloved' club). After that, anybody could take over the club if they bought enough shares.

So as long as BIS remains privately owned I am sure it will continue making brilliant, daring, innovative games for years to come. However if it ever floats on the stock market, it will simply become another faceless corporation owned by shareholders who only care about short-term profit. Its 'creative' decisions will then be taken by accountants and lawyers (a la Hollywood) and its products will merely be rushed out derivatives of any previous games which have turned a profit.

[katipo66 94]

Man Utd was the quickest example i could think where the impossible became possible, im from NZ, i dnt know soccer/football politics.

I believe Rockstar were small/indie before they became big, big doesn't always mean corporate and small doesn't always mean creative?

[Azamato 0]

Yeah cause it sucks having a good game having a seguel every year or we would have to wait a long time for basicly the same thing yeah thats better ! :p

[Guest]

Rockstar are quality developers, but there is no doubt in my mind that they are just the same as Activision and Ubisoft now.

The actual development times for a new GTA game is absolutely huge compared to the average COD game. So whether they like it or not, they can not release a new game every year, not including some DLC. (Basically that's all the COD series is, DLC at full price).

But, GTA has such an enormous following, that they can easily afford these long development times, because they make so much money from sales.

However, it is becoming increasingly obvious that Rockstar only want to expand to consoles. As you can see by red dead redemption, and GTA IV, PC gamers were not something they generally care about, despite how good the games may have been.

So for me, Rockstar are quality console developers, but in terms of PC, garbage, at least the way things stand now.