Incoming tracer fire cannot be seen, why?

[Dead3yez 0]

I'm just wondering, why can't incoming tracer be seen within a certain angle?

For example, you can look at a tracer round incoming head on and you will not see it. However, if you look at an incoming tracer from the side, you will see it.

Is this a bug or a feature, I honestly don't understand it. I just want to hear some thoughts before I create a ticket about it.

[Takko 10]

There do exist tracers in reality that can be seen only from one side, but there are

also tracers which can be seen from both sides.

[roberthammer 582]

I think its a bug , because i heard and seen those tracers - so they can be seen in all angles

Heres a video of this "bug"

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Edited June 14, 2010 by RobertHammer

[Dead3yez 0]

There do exist tracers in reality that can be seen only from one side, but there are

also tracers which can be seen from both sides.

I just looked into that. It appears those tracers use LEDs, which is definately not the case appears to be with ArmA 2.

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat20040099173.pdf

@RobertHammer, do you have a CIT ticket thing?

[Beagle 684]

There different types of tracer rounds, also different types of pyrotechnical tracer rounds. As a primarily MG Gunner that I had been for 6 months I do know that the Dynamite Nobel 7,62x51mm we used in the MG3 was designed to be seen only in a very limited angle. The tracer was in addition relative dim compared to the tracers I have seen in videos of other amed forces, esp. US-forces.

So it is simply not true that tracers from medium mashine guns can be seen from the receiving end in all circumstances.

[Tonci87 163]

I would say its a feature, there are many tracer types that can´t be seen from the front

[Dead3yez 0]

E1iXp5m8ovE

That is the only video of incoming tracer fire I can find.

Even though there may be tracers which are designed to be hidden from the front with the human eye, I find it hard to believe they disappear altogether. Sure it might be minimised but wouldn't it be impossible unless you're attaching an cocktail umbrella to the front of the bullet or something? Edited June 14, 2010 by Dead3yez

[mr burns 131]

Getting shot at looks quite scary in that video - nice!

We´ve noticed this issue during paintball mod development, it sucks not to see the balls flying towards you :(

A config value representing the angles from which tracers can be seen would be nice, but we´ve had that topic before.

icanhaztracer = 360; //fully visible 
icanhaztracer = 240; //stock ArmA 2 

Edited June 14, 2010 by Mr Burns

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Put in CIT and get a buttload of people to vote on it. While you're at it, ask for an "isTracer" command or something (it is currently impossible to make a script that reliably and universally detects when a round is a tracer).

[jackthe®ipper 10]

This has also bugged me. It would be a nice feature if it was properly implemented if you ask me, but when you turn your head you can suddenly see incoming tracers. I think that BIS should just remove this feature. It would make it interesting to see incoming rounds in firefights, especially large calibre (30mm) rounds.

EDIT: Here is another vid

DTjg-l-Ldxs

Edited June 14, 2010 by jackthe®ipper

[Beagle 684]

That is the only video of incoming tracer fire I can find.

Even though there may be tracers which are designed to be hidden from the front with the human eye, I find it hard to believe they disappear altogether. Sure it might be minimised but wouldn't it be impossible unless you're attaching an cocktail umbrella to the front of the bullet or something?

Thats with Night Vision and not from frotn aspect...the Trail you see in NV vidos is not what your eye will see....and...the usual dim tracers have a small pyrotechnical light thats burns in the end of a steel jacket.

No way you can see it coming directly at you in daylight with natural eyesight...what you see is the trail when it flyes by or richocets.

It would not be very clever to shoot tracers that trace YOU immediately.

ArmA II is the only game at this moment I know off that shows this how im used to it.

I always found the überbright tracers visible all the same from all aspects in other games very disturbing.

The tracer burns at the end of the Projectile inside the steel Jacket.

You may also find that the germen wikipedia artikel gives the same Information as my old 90s field manuals...tracers are not visible from the targets side...but can be seen from the side of the trajectory.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchtspurmunition

PS. the corresponding official Bundeswehr fields manual ZDV 3/12 dated October 2002 is linked to this article on the bottom.

Edited June 17, 2010 by W0lle
quoted video

[KeyCat 131]

Good info Beagle!

I agree this is a feature and not a bug.

By using Pistolfied's tracer mod you can have more tracers in the air than stock A2 and have quite spectacular firefights even if you only see tracers at angle, give it a try.

/KC

Edited June 14, 2010 by KeyCat

[maturin 12]

I think its a bug , because i heard and seen those tracers - so they can be seen in all angles

Heres a video of this "bug"

That is the scariest shit I've ever seen. We need this fix now. I'm tempted to download War FX and suffer through the tinkerbell glow-dust explosions just to use their tracers.

Edit: And Arma's angle for tracer visibility seems to be about 90 degrees. They do not conform to the famous maxim that they work both ways, not unless you have someone sitting on your flank.

And I assume that less-visible tracers are more advanced and expensive. Since most people seem to be getting shot at with mostly PKMs and other old soviet knockoff and surplus in this game, it wouldn't be fitting to make all of them invisible.

Edited June 14, 2010 by maturin

[Beagle 684]

And I assume that less-visible tracers are more advanced and expensive. Since most people seem to be getting shot at with mostly PKMs and other old soviet knockoff and surplus in this game, it wouldn't be fitting to make all of them invisible.

Whenever there is somthing advanced and expensive on the market, just ask the Chinese to offer it nearly the same quality at a third of that price.

[Opticalsnare 12]

Well i was working on a Tracers MOD for the WarFX package but atm im running into some scripting difficulties, im still fairly new to the scripting side of things.

Although you might think the tracers in the video look great and complete, they are not. There are many things that cause problems atm with the tracers being generated via particle effect the main problem is that they use alot juice to look like this good it kills about -15fps so you can only imagine what its like with a whole squad of AI lighting up yea... The main problem im having is keeping the particle effect at its source rather than stretching I was told i need to setup some kinda loop in the script and some other stuff but i quickly got confused and ended up just breaking stuff insted. Il have to speak to a few scripters see if they can help me out.. :confused:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtrA-QFGGnA&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtrA-QFGGnA&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Edited June 14, 2010 by Opticalsnare

[mr burns 131]

Il have to speak to a few scripters see if they can help me out.. :confused:

Make sure you´ll end up talking to sickboy or someone else being responsible for 6th tracers in ArmA1, that mod got it spot on as far as im concerned (putting the non front visibility aside).

As for spotting tracers: We´re not discussing the mostly real life used tracers here, but the possibility to have both ingame, via a simple config line change/addition! Absolutely no reason to unrack your wisdom-gunz guys! :rolleyes:

[reconteam 19]

Although you might think the tracers in the video look great and complete, they are not. There are many things that cause problems atm with the tracers being generated via particle effect the main problem is that they use alot juice to look like this good it kills about -15fps so you can only imagine what its like with a whole squad of AI lighting up yea... The main problem im having is keeping the particle effect at its source rather than stretching I was told i need to setup some kinda loop in the script and some other stuff but i quickly got confused and ended up just breaking stuff insted. Il have to speak to a few scripters see if they can help me out.. :confused:

Though the BIS ArmA2 tracers are far better than the ArmA1 ones, your addon seems to have plenty of potential. I hope you can get around these problems. Also it might be interesting to throw in some colors other than the usual red and green tinted ones.

[a wild goat 0]

Are the tracers in Arma2 a flat visual? If so then that explains why it can be seen from the side but then again it can be seen from the back (shooter's perspective)...

[mr burns 131]

Are the tracers in Arma2 a flat visual? If so then that explains why it can be seen from the side but then again it can be seen from the back (shooter's perspective)...

Nope, they´re fully 3d objects, unlike duke3d´s bitmap enemys & collectables :rolleyes:

Back on topic: How about those new config values?

[Tonci87 163]

The tracer in that Video can be seen from the camera because they don´t really fly towards it. He isn´t aiming at the camera (doesn´t want to break it), but more to the left. Thats why you can see them. You have no chance to see a Tracer Bullet flying towards you. The British Pilots in WW2 had a saying about that. "Its all ok as long as you can see the Bullets flying towards you"

[maturin 12]

The tracer in that Video can be seen from the camera because they don´t really fly towards it. He isn´t aiming at the camera (doesn´t want to break it), but more to the left. Thats why you can see them. You have no chance to see a Tracer Bullet flying towards you. The British Pilots in WW2 had a saying about that. "Its all ok as long as you can see the Bullets flying towards you"

I know, in Arma2 the tracers would be completely invisible at even that angle. There are lots of shots that go wide from ricochets and recoil muzzle climb that you should probably be able to see. Like the pilots say, you should see the ones that are missing.

[birddog 0]

yea please i hope this gets fixed ,,, even if it only works single player ,or we gotta turn graphics down etc. let me know id love to test this out for you guys if need be.

[mr.g-c 6]

Anyone opened a ticket about it already?

[Opticalsnare 12]

Yup i did ages ago.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/5525

[birddog 0]

man this should really be listed as a bug if you ask me,at least give us the option BIS...would it be worth it for me to buy arma 1 if this bothers me so much?

i never played armya 1 but always enjoyed ofp is there much diffrance from 1 to 2?