ARMA 2 (OA) : DLC discussion thread

[MavericK96 0]

I will gladly support BIS if they release high quality substantial DLC, such as maps and certain vehicles/units that interest me.

I doubt I'd shell out for random country expansions though, as those don't particularly interest me, even though I see their purpose.

Honestly, I hope they put the most effort into the patches, so that most of those "No" responses in the Q&A become reversed.

Pretty much my feelings in general as well. I have to admit I was disappointed at how many "no" answers there were. I was hoping OA was going to change a lot of major things but it kind of seems like just a direct content addon more than anything now. I did wonder about how the overall "improvements" would work beyond the beta patches, because it doesn't make sense that OA would be at any level beyond them.

[Dead3yez 0]

:aa: FO!!!!

This will just split the community (in multiplayer). I'll buy it, sure. Why didn't you just put the price of OA up and then give this as free DLC.

I am going to rage so hard if these are the brit units which I won't be able to use in multiplayer since half of the community never bought them. :mad:

[thr0tt 12]

:aa: FO!!!!

This will just split the community (in multiplayer). I'll buy it, sure. Why didn't you just put the price of OA up and then give this as free DLC.

I am going to rage so hard if these are the brit units which I won't be able to use in multiplayer since half of the community never bought them. :mad:

Which is my worry. They could potentially have it as a client side mod so MP would sstill work and only those who bought it can use or see the features, not sure how it would work for vehicles... but again sounds too complex and community splitter.

[roberthammer 582]

Calm down guys , even OA haven't released yet and you are calling for DLC :p

There's no DLC yet and i think 90% of people will buy it anyway

[jw custom 56]

I am going to rage so hard if these are the brit units which I won't be able to use in multiplayer since half of the community never bought them. :mad:

Most of the community will probably buy it wether they state it or not. The people who miss it is most likely the same people you see everyday joining servers and gets kicked because they haven't got ACE or whatever mod installed, so thats really no loss!

I see people bitching because they think the brits are done but not included in OA... who the hell says it's done, just because we have seen a bit doesn't mean it's all done!

[Herr_kalashnikov 10]

The people who miss it is most likely the same people you see everyday joining servers and gets kicked because they haven't got ACE or whatever mod installed, so thats really no loss!

TBH this is one the major reasons Arma2 isn't as popular as it should be, imo thats a big loss.

[jonneymendoza 10]

. The people who miss it is most likely the same people you see everyday joining servers and gets kicked because they haven't got ACE or whatever mod installed, so thats really no loss!

!

HAHA nice one. good try but fail. many people use ACE because its great and free yes free mate.

[jw custom 56]

HAHA nice one. good try but fail. many people use ACE because its great and free yes free mate.

You completely missed the point dude :j:

The point:

The people who won't buy the DLC is most likely the same people who get's kicked from servers everyday because they haven't got ACE or some other mod installed and have no clue about it.

Most of the people in these forums probably end up buying the DLC wether they say so or not.

[Leon86 13]

The people who miss it is most likely the same people you see everyday joining servers and gets kicked because they haven't got ACE or whatever mod installed, so thats really no loss!

:banghead: come on man, that is a loss.

[walker 0]

Hi all

An open letter to Marek

Dear Marek

Part of the problem here is that there is no gradation.

The business plan creates a dichotomy and conflict between the interests of Mod teams who in this model provide DLC for free and BIS who will/must provide content for a cost as in this case it is peoples jobs. People at BIS have to work and get paid for what they do just the same as anyone on these forums.

I think the whole thing would be received a lot better in the community if BIS found a way of integrating MOD teams work into the DLC rewards scheme. Then this would be seen as a way of rewarding the communities MOD teams who make the best content of any modding community while making their content official and thus BIS certifying it.

Acting as a certification process it would allow BIS to quality audit those products for DLC.

It would cut BIS's cost of production of DLC and allow its developers to work on the knottier problems of DLC and core engine improvement and get paid for them in with official MOD certified content.

It can also formalize the recruiting process for BIS to take on the members of MOD teams, something it already does but in a bit of a hotchpotch way. It would also cause MOD teams to switch to ArmA as their work would have the potential of being officially recognised and paid for thus delineating ArmA from other products. It would also encourage more people to MOD ArmA as there would be seen to be both the Kudos of BIS certification, income and a possible job with BIS at the end of it.

As the products would be BIS certified; this would also negate the point about people not downloading the best MODs and thus having problems being blocked from servers.

So I have a question to Marek I will PM/send him the link to this post:

Will BIS provide a route for those who make good enough community content to profit from it as DLC?

Kind Regards walker

[Zipper5 74]

This thread is just... Just...

... Eugh...

I can appreciate people worrying over the DLC, but all we've heard about it so far is that there will be free and paid-for packages. That's it! Nothing more, nothing less. Yet people are all up-in-arms as if the community's about to die. Never seen so much melodrama in one place.

Seriously guys, take a chill pill. Only 17 days to go until release! :D

Oh, and I figured I should mention that on the 29th I'll be recording a playthrough of the campaign as I do it, and will be uploading it to YouTube. I'll be recording myself commenting on it live as I play it as well. Check out my channel via the link in my signature, or by clicking here. I'll probably be posting on here when each video is uploaded, but feel free to subscribe if you don't want to keep checking back.

/shameless plug

Edited June 12, 2010 by Zipper5

[jw custom 56]

:banghead: come on man, that is a loss.

Your taking it out of context....

[thr0tt 12]

Zipper5, the reason for the thread is for BIS to guage what people feel about paid DLC, this is why the MOD created it so not really that dumb is it ?

Yes they have stated free DLC (patches / fixes) and paid for but the community are helping BIS decide how to release / charge etc. for future stuff. Speculative statements on our behalf will show how folk really feel about it, BIS can then view these responses and act on or ignore as they feel fit, there is no harm done here giving opinion or speculation as to how the DLC will be delivered, what it potentially could do to community etc.

Cheers,

[mattxr 9]

BIS said they had future plans for a possible MP Addon Sync Ingame so people dont worrry about the addons which servers have that you dont have..

As for DLC and that working not sure what would happen but well see in time, lets all focus on arrowhead untill BI give us more information yes

[mchide 0]

Part of the problem here is that there is no gradation.

Thats not true, good word spreads fast. If mod or addon is ok, or i should say good, than a lot of people downloads it fast and at least checks it in editor... Some of people than make mission with that custom addon... other people play that same mission on their server. THats the thing wich mod or addon maker should focus on.

Will BIS provide a route for those who make good enough community content to profit from it as DLC?

I hope not. Why? Because community is a lot here, but they didnt made this game, BIS developers did.

Originally Posted by jonneymendoza

HAHA nice one. good try but fail. many people use ACE because its great and free yes free mate.

Can you stop with that ACE thing allready. If ACE is soo good? Why the f... i dont like it than? Maybe im strange, too old, stupid...

For good fun, and nice playing time, you dont need ACE mod. You just need good mission and good team.

Edited June 12, 2010 by mchide

[Zipper5 74]

Zipper5, the reason for the thread is for BIS to guage what people feel about paid DLC, this is why the MOD created it so not really that dumb is it ?

Of course, I'm not denying the good purpose of this thread. I'm speaking to posts like these fine examples of feedback:

HAHA nice one. good try but fail. many people use ACE because its great and free yes free mate.

:aa: FO!!!!

This will just split the community (in multiplayer). I'll buy it, sure. Why didn't you just put the price of OA up and then give this as free DLC.

I am going to rage so hard if these are the brit units which I won't be able to use in multiplayer since half of the community never bought them. :mad:

And any more that are sure to crop up in the future. Thankfully the majority are at least doing the speculative worrying maturely, but it's still worrying over speculations. Leave it for when we have more information to back up or disprove such speculations, please.

[dm 9]

Oh jesus h christ. Not this shit again...

To the people crying about it fragmenting the community: What... utter... bullshit... Seriously, complaining about payed DLC fragmenting the community is just a very thin veil pulled over your greedy selfishness. All you want is for it all to be free so that you can get more toys to play with.

We have a saying for this in the UK - "Throwing your toys out of the pram". You're not given what you want, so you make a huge fuss about it to try and get your way. As a community you've been spoilt over the last decade by endless groups of tallented people giving you quality content for free, and you've all gotten too used to it. Now that BI needs some extra revenue and suggests that the next stuff the release might not be free, you're coming up with crappy excuses left right and center to make it sound bad.

As for it being a loss to fragment the community? Well I've got news for you: the "community" is already fragmented. A little extra content isnt going to make it any better or any worse. Its one of the downsides to the engine being so flexible. The only way to "fix" the fragmentation of the community would be to take away the ability to mod the game. Do you really want that? Because thats what you're asking for. Think about it, with no mods or addons to cause conflict, the only problem you'd have would be patch versions. Sure it makes for hassle free multiplayer, but it kills the essence of the game. Do you really want to take away what makes this series so fucking awesome, just for the sake of some "hassle free" multiplayer gaming? Me thinks you need to be a little less lazy, and do some (really rather easy) legwork to get the content you need...

To the people saying that mod teams should be allowed to get in on the DLC action: Well this is all well and good, but you really havent thought it through. At the end of the day there are really only a hand full of people with the skill and tallent to make content of the quality required for inclusion into a paid product. Most of those, that have the skill and tallent, have already been employed or had their work bought for inclusion. Just look at the SCARs and other content bought from ACE for use in OA.

On top of this is a whole heap of shiity legal problems. A lot of you will be mad right about now, and will start saying "well what about addon maker x, or y? Or z!" Well, its nice that they make good quality stuff for free, but is it ALL theirs? Because even if 10 polys of a mesh was made by someone else, even if 16 x 16 pixels of a texture were painted by a third party, or those fancy sounds were ripped from another game. Well then you cant pay them for it. So many of the addon "makers" in the community simply re-package other peoples work with minor changes. And these people, regardless of how amazing their work is, can NOT be paid for it. Its incredibly complicated and dangerous water to be wading into. Which is why BIS hasnt for the most part.

This, coupled with the amount of work someone (or several people) would have to do to validate these addons, is the reason that we will most likely never see it happen. Not on a grandoise or regular scale. Anyone who disagrees with this clearly has no experience of working in an art department for a games company. Someone has to oversee the work, someone has to make sure deadlines are met, someone has to make sure that quality assurance is met. Its not just a case of saying "oh, that dude made a sweet tank, include it in the next DLC!" And I can tell you now, the cost of the time BI would spend getting all of these things done would far outweigh the returns they'd get on the end product. So its really never going to be worth it for them. Not to mention they already have a team of highly-skilled artists who, given that BI has to pay them ever month, need work every month. So they would be more likely to use their internal assets (which are much easier to oversee and manage) than to resort to external artists for content.

As for discussing the payment options of payed DLC (mostly to those suggesting a donation system) I'll quote myself from another thread:

So I have a good Idea, let BIS do DLCs, but let them release it for free but with the option to donate via paypal or something like that. Im sure there are many Fans out there who would gladly donate some Money to BIS

I have a better idea, assuming you're old enough to have a job, lets take your salary away and let your managers donate your wages to you. I'm sure they will gladly donate for high quality work!

Also, I agree with Zipper:

Face

Palm.

[hamm 10]

Honestly it depends on what sort of protection BIS use for the DLC. If it's just a simple Key used once that's fine, and would have no reprecussions. But if they introduce a method to stop people from accessing the DLC, or someone inevitably repacks the DLC units into an .pbo addon, what does that mean for modding in general? Will the DLC content be inaccessible by modders?

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just simply think and discuss about possible content for free and paid DLC!

For example what if the free DLC presents a light variant ("appetizer") for paid DLC?

In Europe many companies offering different payment options - guess BIS is aware about those. If I should bet - BIS are even thinking of releasing someday the "A2-OA-XX Complete/Ultimate Combat Edition incl. all DLCs" on DVDs.

[walker 0]

Hi all

An open letter to Marek

Dear Marek

Part of the problem here is that there is no gradation.

The business plan creates a dichotomy and conflict between the interests of Mod teams who in this model provide DLC for free and BIS who will/must provide content for a cost as in this case it is peoples jobs. People at BIS have to work and get paid for what they do just the same as anyone on these forums.

I think the whole thing would be received a lot better in the community if BIS found a way of integrating MOD teams work into the DLC rewards scheme. Then this would be seen as a way of rewarding the communities MOD teams who make the best content of any modding community while making their content official and thus BIS certifying it.

Acting as a certification process it would allow BIS to quality audit those products for DLC.

It would cut BIS's cost of production of DLC and allow its developers to work on the knottier problems of DLC and core engine improvement and get paid for them in with official MOD certified content.

It can also formalize the recruiting process for BIS to take on the members of MOD teams, something it already does but in a bit of a hotchpotch way. It would also cause MOD teams to switch to ArmA as their work would have the potential of being officially recognised and paid for thus delineating ArmA from other products. It would also encourage more people to MOD ArmA as there would be seen to be both the Kudos of BIS certification, income and a possible job with BIS at the end of it.

As the products would be BIS certified; this would also negate the point about people not downloading the best MODs and thus having problems being blocked from servers.

So I have a question to Marek I will PM/send him the link to this post:

Will BIS provide a route for those who make good enough community content to profit from it as DLC?

Kind Regards walker

Hi mchide

I am quoting my text in full because you did not link to it and thus people will not be able understand the context of what we are discussing.

Just clarifying gradation means:

a. A series of gradual, successive stages; a systematic progression.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gradation

As I said the DLC business plan proposal as presented at the moment creates the dichotomy of official DLC and the unofficial DLC. There is no gradual shift from one to the other.

The DLC business plan proposal as it stands is like a knife cutting BIS off from the modding community and a barrier to creation of new MOD as you could as a MOD team spend months creating content only to have your ideas trumped by an official version that makes you hard work worth nothing.

Conversely BIS is already up against MOD content that some say is better than official work. Thus placing BIS in competition with MOD teams once again acting as a knife to the relationship between BIS and its community

If however the proposal where to be changed to include a graduated route for MOD teams to move their products up into the certified BIS content and be paid for it; then it becomes instead of a barrier to creation a ramp on to which MOD teams can move up into professional development.

The whole concept of this idea is to bring BIS closer to its community rather than separate them from the community.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 12, 2010 by walker

[jdbecks 10]

I would pay for good quality DLC, especialy if they release the British /HM Forces Faction

[dm 9]

The DLC business plan proposal as it stands is like a knife cutting BIS off from the modding community and a barrier to creation of new MOD as you could as a MOD team spend months creating content only to have your ideas trumped by an official version that makes you hard work worth nothing.

Conversely BIS is already up against MOD content that some say is better than official work. Thus placing BIS in competition with MOD teams once again acting as a knife to the relationship between BIS and its community

Thats a load of crap. And you know it.

If any of what you said were true, we wouldnt have 235363263256235 M16/M4 packs, we wouldnt have the dozens of USMC and US Army soldier addons, hell we wouldnt have much.

I cant say anything about your motivations, but when I made addons, I never did it for the community. I did it for me. I did it because it was fun, I did it because I enjoyed doing it, and I did it because I wanted to make the things I did, regardless of whether or not they've been done before.

Whether or not BIS releases a version of it thats free or you had to pay for, you'd probably still want to make your version anyway.

Infact, this very plan you're suggesting - pay mod makers for their content to include in DLC is the very thing which will "drive a knife between BIS and the mod makers".

Think about it, BI is only going to be able to sell you British units once, they're only going to be able to sell you German units once, French units once, and so on and so on. This means they have to choose from the different groups of people making those things. They have to choose one setof mod makers for their British content, they have to choose one set of mod makers for their German content and so on. That means a lot of people, who may well be deserving of being paid for their work, can not be, because BI cant sell you 3 versions of the same British/German/French/Italian/whatever content.

Now, when BIS makes this content themselves, the quality will be good, but it may not be technically 100% accurate. Its also made by BIS, and not some rival mod team. This means that other mod teams (or individual people) would still be willing to re-create it, more technically accurate (think "oh noes, that spare wheel is 20cm too far forward" or "they used a machingun mount from the demo vehicle, the real one is slightly different" type stuff).

Now imagine that you're in mod team a, but BI chooses mod team b's version of the vehicle/soldier/weapon you're making to include in the DLC and pay them for. Your model might be better, might be more technically accurate, whatever. They chose the other guys and paid them. Are you going to want to finish that model? If you really are into it for the fun, probably. Most people would be so pissed off by this they would never finish it. The key difference? Instead of the salaried artist that works in BIS' office making it, someone just like you made it, but they got paid for whatever shady reason and you didnt. Thats likely to piss off a lot of people. I know I would have been mad if it were me....

Edited June 12, 2010 by DM

[Schancky 10]

Lmao! This whole thing about fragmenting the community is making me laugh so much! Just look at MS Flight simulator 2004/X . There is literately 100,000s of addons, that being aircraft, airports, scenery, land vehicles, sounds, visuals etc in the Flight sim community. Most of these are free, but a lot of them are also paid addons.

The FS community has never been split by this, and they have thousands more addons than we ever will have. So there is absolutely no issue with the community being split.

And as DM said, people in this community have been spoiled by free addons over the last 10 years. I think its time that BIS charge for extra content. It gives them an incentive to provide top quality addons in larger quantities than if they were free. If you don't want to spend the money, then don't. No one is forcing people to buy the DLC. If you don't want the pay for it, then don't. The modding teams will still (hopefully) be producing things for the people who don't want to buy the DLC. It a win-win for both sides, and for BIS.

@Walker - That is a load of rubbish. Looking at the MS flight sim world again, there must be hundreds of different 737s made by people, even though there is an official 737 with the game. The same principle can be applied here. just because BIS make a jackel, dosn't mean no-none else can make one...

Just my thoughts on the last few pages :)

Edited June 12, 2010 by Schancky

[jonneymendoza 10]

Lmao! This whole thing about fragmenting the community is making me laugh so much! Just look at MS Flight simulator 2004/X . There is literately 100,000s of addons, that being aircraft, airports, scenery, land vehicles, sounds, visuals etc in the Flight sim community. Most of these are free, but a lot of them are also paid addons.

The FS community has never been split by this, and they have thousands more addons than we ever will have. So there is absolutely no issue with the community being split.

And as DM said, people in this community have been spoiled by free addons over the last 10 years. I think its time that BIS charge for extra content. It gives them an incentive to provide top quality addons in larger quantities than if they were free. If you don't want to spend the money, then don't. No one is forcing people to buy the DLC. If you don't want the pay for it, then don't. The modding teams will still (hopefully) be producing things for the people who don't want to buy the DLC. It a win-win for both sides, and for BIS.

@Walker - That is a load of rubbish. Looking at the MS flight sim world again, there must be hundreds of different 737s made by people, even though there is an official 737 with the game. The same principle can be applied here. just because BIS make a jackel, dosn't mean no-none else can make one...

Just my thoughts on the last few pages :)

Since when was flight sim been a multiplayer game? Its a single player game from last i played it so it dont matter HOW many dlc's they make it wont split the so called community.

Also, was flight sim a moddable game?

[Schancky 10]

Since when was flight sim been a multiplayer game? Its a single player game from last i played it so it dont matter HOW many dlc's they make it wont split the so called community.

Also, was flight sim a moddable game?

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Please tell me you are joking.

http://www.vatsim.net/

http://stats.vatsim.net/who.html

Freeware:

http://www.surclaro.com/

Payware

http://www.fspilotshop.com/index.php?cPath=2_70

Edited June 12, 2010 by Schancky