The AI's Biotic X-Ray Vision through certain objects: A bit of research on the matter

[dmarkwick 261]

Im back you mother truckers...I've read what you guys have had trouble with and it sounds like some of you believe the AI is bit to all seeing....I have another reason to believe they see through walls I was playing a mission I made and this was a test to see how the AI reacted to my movement. I set my 3 guys on over watch at the top of a hill in tropica map to watch me inflitrate the little town on the water. Now its dark also so I run up to the town take guy out and move to a top of the building then tell my guys to open up after being on holdfire so they open up and kill some of the patrols but heres the weird thing I didn't shoot any shots after my first kill. Im on the roof and just watching the firefight take place then the enemy Ai start shooting at me and I was like how the hell did you see me when I didn't give my position away..Then I run down the steps and out the back the house to a new location and guess what? They where there shorty after at my position and I didn't fire one shot...I thinks that messed up I have played a game called farcry 2 and the Ai is none scripted and they handle much better than this AI....I know some of you are probably going to say go play that game then....LOL

I think the answer to this is simple: they knew you were around somewhere and were looking out for you. You have to bear in mind that the AI is as tenacious as possible, if it was possible for you to spot the enemy after looking for them, then it's possible for them to spot you after looking for you. Any other kind of behavior and you'd be able to "play the AI" and use that to your advantage. I mean, don't get me wrong it's still possible to play the AI, but you have to be rather more considered about it :)

---------- Post added at 10:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

Anyway, in my own past research on this topic, using a similar script to the one Nemesis made, I came to the same conclusion as him: the AI in Arma2 does not have magical X-ray vision.

I think most of us have done some amount of observation on this topic :) for myself, I remember that the AI was unusually good at finding me no matter what I tried, but then after a few patches the situation became better. I don't wish to have magic disappearing powers, but neither do I wish for sniffer-dog AI :D

I think that, with a selection of AI mods, the current AI tenacity is quite playable. If I play like a bufoon, I get found, simple :)

[LeadCommando65 10]

Anyway, in my own past research on this topic, using a similar script to the one Nemesis made, I came to the same conclusion as him: the AI in Arma2 does not have magical X-ray vision.

They try to estimate your position when you disappear behind objects, they sometimes suppress the place where they believe you to be (which may or may not be accurate), and they can use their hearing to improve their estimates.

Example: There is an enemy Tank, there is me, a house is between us. I go to a corner of that house, the tank sees me and start firing his MGs at the corner. Even if I retreat quickly from that corner he still keeps firing at it. So basically he doesn´t take my Speed and movement direction into account, but thinks that I´m still behind that corner.

You might want to try that:

AI tank test

I experienced the same as Tonci87, but also observed another strange behaviour. See the test mission. It's self-explanatory.

[pooroldspike 129]

..There is an enemy Tank, there is me, a house is between us. I go to a corner of that house, the tank sees me and start firing his MGs at the corner. Even if I retreat quickly from that corner he still keeps firing at it. So basically he doesn´t take my Speed and movement direction into account, but thinks that I´m still behind that corner.

Yeah this test I just did confirms that a tank fires at your last known position, it doesn't try to 'predict' where you're going to reappear-

Blue guy is behind house-

He sidesteps out and sees a T-90 down the road-

He bounces a few bullets off it to wake it up-

Then sidesteps safely back behind the house and watches its tracer whipping into his last known position. The tank fired several bursts all at the same spot, then held fire.

(Incidentally I was surprised the tank didn't use high-explosive shells; I suppose it's standard AI policy not to waste them on infantry)

[Tonci87 163]

They do sometimes use their cannon, especially if you are out of the effextive range of the MG or if there are multiple enemy on the same spot. It alsways a giant Ooohhh F* moment if they open up on you with their maingun

[SteveJA 12]

Ive never seen a AI tank use HE shells on infantry, you running any mods?

[celery 8]

Believe it or not, when tanks use the cannon on infantry, they fire sabots.

[SteveJA 12]

/\ Haha well, least its fixible (prolly :p)

[Tonci87 163]

Well I use ACE. But I think it is also default Behaviour, thank god they aren´t intelligent enough to switch to Frag Rounds when they use the main gun on Infrantry. One Frag Round can kill a whole squad very easily

[jakerod 254]

Squads don't share info in vanilla. Otherwise your AI leader would be telling you to engage dudes other squad engages or sees.

I've played a lot of SP missions and sometimes the friendly squad just 100m away was totally getting wiped out by enemies, while my AI leader never even reacted, not even to a huge amount of gunfire going on, continuing to his waypoint.

That's not so bad. Back in the OFP days the squad I was in lost about 5 guys. This is a rough radio transcript:

1: Oh No 2 Is Down!

1: Oh No 4 Is Down!

1: Damn! 7 Is Down!

1: Oh No 8 Is Down!

1: Oh No 10 Is Down!

1: Contact!

Really? We're getting shot at? I never would've guessed. I thought 2, 4, 7, 8, and 10 just tripped on a rock and fell on their knife. And those weren't just some firecrackers going off in the trees to the left? And my arm isn't bleeding because I got stung by a bee? Thanks 1.

Ontopic: I think the AI tends to be fine in their detection capabilities. Occasionally I get one that seems to know a bit too much but for the most part they seem fine. I just don't like how slow their reaction time normally is. There have been many times where I was saved by the enemies slow reaction time when I walked into rooms with guys in it.

[Tonci87 163]

I say: The AI is good as it is now, it only needs a lot more improvement in CQB (quicker reaction Time). At middle to far distances they already do an outstanding job

[maturin 12]

I wonder if vehicles and static weapons suppress invisible players differently.

I will test with various obstacles, but in my prior experience they do tend to pound my last known position quite resolutely.

[Neopas 10]

Squads don't share info in vanilla. Otherwise your AI leader would be telling you to engage dudes other squad engages or sees.

I've played a lot of SP missions and sometimes the friendly squad just 100m away was totally getting wiped out by enemies, while my AI leader never even reacted, not even to a huge amount of gunfire going on, continuing to his waypoint.

Only GroupLink mod ever provided functionality like info sharing between squads

I think they do share info, but reacting on it depends on whether the orders they have allow it.If not, they follow their orders and carry on with their mission.Provided your AI leader is on a guard WP,he will tell you to engage enemies spotted by other squads, however on a move WP he will ignore a friendly squad being under fire next to him ,and continue for his destination.

[maturin 12]

I downloaded your missions, Lead Commando.

Bush #1: Fully blocks line of sight, no one spotted anyone.

Bush #2: Viewblock geometry is only sufficient to hide a *crouched or prone* soldier. And this is actually appropriate, as the outer fringes of the bush are quite flimsy and I was able to spot the AI by moving slightly and zooming in. Viewblock cannot be as complex as the 3D model, so it is an acceptable compromise.

Bush #3: This bush is even skimpier, and I had confusing results. I would always report the enemy to my squad mate. My AI spotter could see through the bush better than I could, but I could see through it with my eyes if I really tried. The interesting issue was that I had trouble getting the enemy to shoot me through the bush. Sometimes his Knowsabout was 4, yet he held fire, and he stopped firing when I ran behind the bush. However, if I went prone and crept underneath the base of the bush, he would fire instantly, suggesting that the viewblock geometry is hovering off the ground and is quite small.

I tried some other methods of getting the enemy to hear or see me, and I conclude that the bush can be seen through, but it may make the AI reluctant to engage, or more willing to aim at other places where he guesses you to be.

Also, regarding the behavior of vehicles:

I placed myself as the gunner of a T-72 and had an American rifleman run across the street in front of us and hide behind a building. This way I could see what my commander ordered to me to do and what he shot at.

The result was surprising. Tank commanders use the exact same estimate tracking method as infantry. He gave me an engage order and that red crosshair showed up on a the screen, indicating that the enemy had kept on running down the street, past several buildings. However, the tank commander kept spraying the corner where he had disappeared. I should add that this is much more effective at suppression. Otherwise there would be main gun barrels swinging all over the place.

Edited April 11, 2011 by maturin

[LeadCommando65 10]

I downloaded your missions, Lead Commando.

Thanks for testing (answered you on the bug tracker).

Regarding your vehicle test: Interesting results. I'll try your setup to examine this, thanks.

Edited April 16, 2011 by LeadCommando65
link corrected

[metalcraze 290]

That's not so bad. Back in the OFP days the squad I was in lost about 5 guys. This is a rough radio transcript:

1: Oh No 2 Is Down!

1: Oh No 4 Is Down!

1: Damn! 7 Is Down!

1: Oh No 8 Is Down!

1: Oh No 10 Is Down!

1: Contact!

Really? We're getting shot at? I never would've guessed. I thought 2, 4, 7, 8, and 10 just tripped on a rock and fell on their knife. And those weren't just some firecrackers going off in the trees to the left? And my arm isn't bleeding because I got stung by a bee? Thanks 1.

This still happens, although to a much lesser degree.

Ontopic: I think the AI tends to be fine in their detection capabilities. Occasionally I get one that seems to know a bit too much but for the most part they seem fine. I just don't like how slow their reaction time normally is. There have been many times where I was saved by the enemies slow reaction time when I walked into rooms with guys in it.

Yep. Although I would've wished AI was more agressive against snipers as well apart from quicker reaction times. When you are engaging AIs from 500m or up they will never even try to suppress your general direction unless you will deliberately try to give your position away.

I think they do share info, but reacting on it depends on whether the orders they have allow it.If not, they follow their orders and carry on with their mission.Provided your AI leader is on a guard WP,he will tell you to engage enemies spotted by other squads, however on a move WP he will ignore a friendly squad being under fire next to him ,and continue for his destination.

Eh that's a "guard" waypoint. It's quite a cheap way to simulate "defenders calling for backup". And even then AIs arrive only to the position the script was triggered from (you may as well make through 200 or 300 m distance and watch them try to look for you back there).

Edited April 12, 2011 by metalcraze

[whisper 0]

EDIT : nvm, unrelated comment, I misunderstood :)

Edited April 12, 2011 by whisper