Weapons Sway

[imutep 0]

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[Wolfstriked 11]

Wolfstriked: while I agree that more sway would be desirable, it is the nature of how it is simulated (the pattern doesn't change in the game, whereas in reality when you shoot from prone, kneeling or a supported position they are more stable platforms and the pattern of sway more closely follows your breathing) that makes it undesirable in the game.

Recoil is a topic of it's own and an interesting project for someone.

Some weapons 'feel' right, while others, e.g. M249 are way off. From experience it is perfectly feasible to be able to accurately shoot bursts with the M249 from kneeling/standing and between moves - I've a feeling changing things wouldn't necessarily produce the desired results though...`kiddie cannons' are less desirable than a bit too much recoil.

Protegimus

Ahh I see what you mean now,thanks.In past I modded my Stalker game's weapons.Velocity,RPM and effective range was the info I gathered for each gun.I then did a simplified way of using each weapons effective range to set its dispersion.I then used the best sniper SVD rifle and set that at maximum in game dispersion.The weapons all felt good like this where say pistols were terrible even at medium range while accurate up close etc.One weapon I hated not being able to mod effectively was the AbakanAN94.This weapon has an excellent system where the first two shots are fired before any recoil is felt by the shooter.Two bullets hitting same area basically means easy kill.Just there was no way to make the game do this properly and extensive tests showed the second bullet was actually affected by recoil.

STalker's system of recoil was beautifully thought out also but badly implemented in its look in game.You could even have weapons that recoiled sideways as some weapons do in real life,weapons that did a straight up and down and weapons that sprayed in all directions ala AK47.The implementation though seemed wonky and it just didn't look right and so most weapons were kept o the straight up and down recoil look as that looked pretty good.Arma could use some work on its animations for sure.

STalker also had an excellent implementation of jamming and accuracy breakdown.Time for breakdown to occur and at same time amount of dispersion worsened were two parameters that could be set.Probably overkill since its not like you are in the field for a long time.A simple 1 to 10 chart with this number used as a chance to jam would of sufficed.So some weapons jammed more than others.Cleaning kits were modded in but again not being in field for a month it just feels wrong that the gun's dispersion worsened over one hours gameplay.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Wolfstriked

[Protegimus 0]

Thanks, Protegimus.

Also do you know where is the pattern that actually is responsible for simulating the weapon sway. From my understanding it should be similar to something like recoil[] patterns.

Maybe we can reproduce exactly the VBS2/JCOVE weapon sway (goes up and down with the breathing). What you think?

Unfortunately I don't - can anyone chip in here and help?

I tested substituting animations today and that doesn't appear to be what controls the sway pattern (which may be a good thing!).

Protegimus

[Nightrain 10]

Sorry for the slight delay in the mirror.

Release frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

Weapons Sway

Edited May 9, 2010 by Nightrain

[Protegimus 0]

No apology required - thank you for the mirror!

[zork 10]

I added a sugestion to the BIS devs to implement it (weapon sway from VBS2/JCOVE) in the future Arma versions.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=98878

Edited May 10, 2010 by zork

[That guy 10]

do you think some one could upload a video showcasing this mod (just firing a few of the weapons at a range or something), and maybe comparing it to JCOVE?

[zork 10]

In my humble opinion this mod do not drastically improve the situation. The 'aimprecision' value is definetly too low as to portray the realistic weapon sway mechanism. This is (again my humble opinion) perfectly done in the VBS2/JCOVE, but Protegimus himself remarked that it is probably impossible to implement it in Arma 2 as of right now, so we need the help of someone from the BIS team to really make it happen.

As the situation stands right now though, I will try to improve it plus also add more realistic weapons recoil (which also some of us know from VBS2/JCOVE) and release it as another mod, which will be based on excellent Protegimus work... I need some time though.

If anyone can share some light on how we can improve the weapon sway system and/or recoil in Arma2, you are most welcome to post here...

[Wolfstriked 11]

Is there a way to stop the return to dead center after each shot.If you could stop it say at 3/4 its return to dead center then player would have to realign just this tiny amount.Of course weapon sway would have to be minimized again.

[zork 10]

Wolfstriked --> this can be done with adjusting weapon recoil parameters.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Why should weapon sway have to be minimized because of increased and better recoil parameters (the not fully returning aim)? We want this to reduce the turkey shoot, making maneuver more important so we can get up close. Standing AI would still shoot, but not being able to deliver accurate fires. A prone sniper or machinegunner however, you would take seriously. Maybe a sniper on our side would prioritize more rather than shoot at anything that moves. Give him limited ammo so he would have to.

I've tried the mod, but I can't say it improves too much. The sway needs to be even bigger. I'll be using it though, so thanks. No, no suggestions, don't know much about modding.

[Wolfstriked 11]

I will just wait and see what Zork comes up with.Sway with non-returning recoil may or may not be good.Would love to see a really good video showing differences of VSB2 compared to Arma.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Download JCOVE Light and try for yourself. :)

[Wolfstriked 11]

Thanks Carl.I am downloading now.

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

Just trying to understand as I am new to BIS products.Watch this video of VSB2 starting at 1:30.You will see that it states "enhanced ironsights,recoil and movement in ironsight mode".There is also excellent sway modeled.

Is this part of the $400.00 dollar price tag of VSB2?I know there are some things like ability to watch mission afterwards for instructors to pinopint what went wrong and show students onscreen etc.But what I mean is will Arma2 ever get the weapons modeling of VSB2 or is this something that only $400.00 dollar investment will bring?

[Inkompetent 0]

@ Wolfstriked

That is pretty much up to Bohemia Interactive. They haven't said anything about that specfically, but if you look at Operation Arrowhead we are getting the FLIR from VBS2, and I believe that the infrared markers are from there as well, and same with he rucksack-system that's to come.

Difference is that VBS strictly targets the professional military as an educational tool, and thus doesn't have to be the least bit of fun, as long as it is a good enough representation of actual combat.

ArmA on the other hand needs to be fun to play, and easy enough to get into for 'the avarage gamer', so that it'll sell enough (since after all, every single company in the world needs what they do to be profitable, or they cannot exist), so it's a tough thing for BIS to balance. Hopefully though we'll at least get SUPPORT for additional axis to animate the weapons in. The charm with ArmA after all is that the community can shape the game into all their different tastes, as long as BIS provides us with the tools to do so.

It's not likely to come in ArmA2/OA I'd say, but maybe in some future release if enough people show it is wished for.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Ahh I see what you mean.I am forgetting that Arma2 doesn't have much sway as standard and the sway I have is a mod by Protegimus.I can see what you mean by fun factor and profits very clearly.At times I play on novice because I like to have all the info at hand for a quick and easy session.They could though make the realistic setting be the one that is closest to VSB2.Put warnings that it is much harder etc....

Could you point me to info on the new rucksack system?

[Inkompetent 0]

Best I can do is to point at http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=83717

About weapon sway though... I'd love something like in America's Army 3. One can say what one wants about that game. It has has many an issue. But the weapon control in the game has some VERY nice features with sway, misalignment of sights when going to ironsight view, (i.e. even if your 'crosshair' is on target when you look normally, the sight is randomly offset a bit in some direction when you go to ironsights), more proper aiming with grenade launcher attachment ladder sight, and a fantastic 'eight-shape' sway, recoil feel, and breath control.

I wonder how much of it can be transcribed to ArmA2 though, even with some new axis of animation for sight misalignment, considering the way the game is made.

[zork 10]

Wolfstriked --> VBS2 is not that realistic either. Yeah, the weapon sway and recoil are better than in Arma 2, but that's about it. AI is from RV2 (Arma 1), same with the overall graphics engine. It still got the terrible hitpoint system (vehicles exploding after few rounds from small arms weaponry etc). Arma 2 looks and sounds (with proper mods) much better than VBS2 will ever be. Now they will probably release VBS3 that will be based on RV3 (Arma 2), but at that time BIS will probably release RV4 and Arma 3 :)

It would be nice if BIS implemented weapon sway from VBS though. I think if we as customers could generate the necessary interest in this, they would definetly do this.

[That guy 10]

Download JCOVE Light and try for yourself. :)

i would if i could, but unfortunately my internet connection, and current machine prevent me from doing that :(

unless JCOVEs system requirements are lower than UT99s :p

[galzohar 31]

The biggest problem I've seen with the aiming in America's Army 3 is that holding breath basically turns you into a walking tripod even in the standing position. Way too easy to hit something at 300m while standing in AA3.