realistic weapon sway when aiming

[zork 10]

Anyone know how to increase weapon sway effect when aiming? The original Arma2 has relatively very low weapon sway even when aiming in standing position.

If there some mods that are increasing the weapon sway? or can someone explain how to edit the config files to do it?

Perfectly I would like the same weapon sway as in VBS2 JCOVE lite. How to use the exact same values?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I couldn't agree more. Increased sway like in JCOVE, especially standing, needs to be implemented. I haven't really compared them, but I'll take your word for it. We are aiming like we are on the range, not like we are in war full of adrenalin. I read in todays newspaper about 6 wounded guys in Afghanistan (1 critically). The firefight lasted 6 hours. In Arma you can only affect AI's sway, ours is relatively rock solid. It doesn't create firefights.

The only thing so far that has managed to get it "right" (my subjective feeling naturally), was early versions of ACE for Arma1. But people complained they couldn't hit anything. Neither could AI, but that gave us highly prolonged firefights. They gave into the pressure from "range shooters", and now we have what we have.

[Flash Thunder 10]

agree more sway would be very welcomed.

would make the AI less of a Terminator machine.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

AI has a setting called accuracy, that we can control. Unfortunately it needs to stay high in order to match our own skill/accuracy (due to not much sway). Otherwise it just becomes a long distance turkey shoot against defenseless AI. I'll add that I'm pretty impressed with how enemy AI thinks when up close (and good enough skill level so they can actually turn and shoot fast enough), using cover and leaning and all that. The problem is they are all dead when we get within good engagement ranges, and here they lack severe skill in using terrain as a mask to get into a good attack position.

Edited May 3, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[zork 10]

CarlGustaffa --> Yes, exactly. I'm all for creating an ultra realistic shooting experience, and IMHO weapon sway is one of the crucial things to it. When you aim with real guns even on the shooting range your aim is definetly not that solid as right now in Arma 2, and we talk here about military sim that is virtualising a real battlefield. It is ruining the experience now.

In OPF there was a 'precisionaim' parameter that was controlling weapon sway. I can't find it in Arma 2. Carl, do you know in which pbo's config.cpp file we need to look? Shouldn't be that hard, all we need to know is the parameter which controls it...

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I checked something downloadable called allinone.cpp and couldn't find it.

[zork 10]

I checked something downloadable called allinone.cpp and couldn't find it.

Anyone can help us here? I think it is definetly not called 'precisionaim' in Arma 2. Any BIS devs here?

Can it be related to 'aimingShake[]'?

Edited May 3, 2010 by zork

[CarlGustaffa 4]

As it's under class CfgAISkill, I doubt it has any effect on humans. There is also the command setSkill Array, but I haven't had too much success getting expected results. Again, only for AI.

[Pease 10]

Why not play it on Expert (or whatever the hardest level is)...cause I get plenty of sway...I can't hit the broad side of a barn half the damn time....I usually have to kneel (still just as difficult) or I have to lay down and I better have a bipod (sniper rifle)..or a LMG...or even the regular M4's sway....

[Vick 19]

perhaps a better suppression effect- the more fire you take, the more your weapon sways

would make gaining fire superiority that much more vital and challenging

Edited May 4, 2010 by Vick

[Laqueesha 474]

Weapon sway, can't that be achieved with the "Aiming deadzone" slider in the game options? Please forgive my ignorance if I am wrong. :D

Also, shouldn't this belong in the ArmA 2: suggestions section? ;)

[sneakey pete 10]

I thought that was already partly in game: lots of bullets landing next to you causes you to loose a bit of stamina, leading to a more jumpy crosshair? or maybe it was just me going prone/getting back up to often.

More sway would certianly be more realistic, though maybe not as horrible as i am with a real weapon. Think: the level of sway you get with two wounded arms, and that's what i'm like on a good day.

[Pease 10]

I think you guys are correct, cause I have been in fire fights where I am just spraying and praying practically, just to get some suppressive fire out.

[zork 10]

Supressive fire is a one thing, ordinary weapon sway is something different, although related. And even on the hardest level (actually you can control it much more clearly in the user config file) the sway is very little, as compared to JCOVE.

I was looking through core config.cpp and weapons.pbo's config.cpp files but I don't think I got it. Carl, you are right the 'aimingShake[]' is related only to AI. Can any of the Arma coders point us in the right direction?

Thanks.

[ScareCroweb 10]

Weapon sway ahh the good old Ace1 feature that many people used counter mod/cheat to get rid of haha

Yeah i miss having that, cause it gives us an excuse to lower the damn AI's acuracy so they cant hit you in the head when you are running zig zagging. Give us Weapon sway, and ton of it too!!

To be honest i am dissapointed that Ace2 didnt continue using the same sway as they had in Ace1 :mad:

[Pease 10]

No no Zork, you don't understand, my gun is swaying all over the damn place and so I just have to lay down suppressive fire to get the hell out of there.

[zork 10]

Peace_USVMC --> so do you know which parameter is controlling it? I would like to add it so I got a "weapon sway" constantly.

If we can't locate the config line for "weapon sway" then maybe we can increase the fatigue level or something, just to make the aim more dynamic...

I only found this, but this is for VBS2 1.22 and up...

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setWeaponSwayFactor_%28VBS2%29

[polecat.uk 11]

Shoot each other in the arm and you'll have all the sway you can handle.

[Pease 10]

@ Zork, either I have Parkinson's (which I don't) or I just suck at keeping my mouse still (which is possibly)...I tend to sway a lot...I'll check it out when I get home from work, to see if I actually am swaying or its just me not able to stay still...

[CarlGustaffa 4]

WeaponSwayFactor is probably already available in the engine, just not made "available" to us. It could have bad implications if it did. The sway factor seems to be hooked into stamina and suppression effects (maybe suppression effects *are* stamina, since I also loose my breath). But I'd like oh so many more factors to affect it, such as:

1) "Level of scaryness". Ever had a heavy gun (25mm and thereabouts) on autofire hit the wall near you using HE ammo? Scary as hell! But unless the rounds land close enough to trigger suppression, you're completely unaffected.

2) Suppressed by a sniper? Effects would be scarier I believe.

3) 12.7mm machineguns? Oh my!

4) 7.62mm machineguns? Yes, even those.

5) Engines near your vicinity should affect your "concentration level" and how well you aim.

6) Known enemies near your position should affect your nervousness.

7) Firefights even a few blocks down the street should affect your abilities somewhat.

8) Your friends shooting nearby should also have an effect.

9) You should have a master control that controls how "deep" these effects are. Or better yet, let setSkill array also affect humans.

The positives:

1) You can have missions where the settings of a character affects your abilities. They could be made slightly random in multiplayer, and you could get unlucky and end up with a scared avatar who is a lousy shot, especially under pressure.

2) You could have singleplayer missions where you portray a poor civilian. Would you expect this civilian to be a master shot? No, but he might be a runner. Replay it as a squad leader, and he might prove a much better shot, but going old he hasn't had much practice, so his stamina is on the low side. Nice replayability right there.

3) You could have a ranking system in a mission, where you by the time actually got hold of a sniper rifle, also was able to shoot good with it.

4) You would have to get closer, for the grunts to get hits. Maybe so close that people would favor bursts instead of single shots :)

5) Trying to get closer, would result in longer firefights.

6) Uniform camouflage (in Arma2) seems to work a lot better in clutter such as grass and twigs etc, when up close. Means that movement is more difficult without getting spotted. And AI can be damned hard to see.

7) Not being killed "constantly". More like the real world, with lots of shooting and little kills.

8) Obviously reducing the engagement distances to what is sensible for todays personal weapons. Equip someone with iron sighted M4s, and he is still able to take out targets at 300m+, even with all hell breaking lose around him, as long as he is not influenced by suppression.

9) Heavier squad guns, support weapons, and vehicle support on overwatch becomes more involved in the fighting, since the effect of lighter weapons becomes reduced. What do they do when harrassed by sniper fire in the real world? They bring in the big guns. What do we do in Arma? Take him out from "sniping distance" with an M4 while under fire. Sorry, but that doesn't make sense.

10) Since inaccurate, riflemen need to conserve their ammo more, and rely more on the heavy hitters that have plenty of ammo. It's painful to see riflemen shoot more than a SAW gunner.

11) Snipers who may be farther away from the action, have a much calmer environment, and will be able to get much higher precision. Although you might get suppressed, none of the other factors I mentioned would have an impact on that distance.

12) Gives you a sixth sense, which may aid those new to the game. "Why does my avatar 'feel' so nervous? Are there any enemies around?" Your avatar knows (via the normal information sharing system), but the player don't but is still affected by it. No players "shake their weapon" because they are "scared" :D Always rock solid aim.

13) Gives range shooters still the ability to tweak their avatar in the editor, and practice shooting under ideal conditions. Something war never is.

14) Luck can become a bigger factor. Sometimes you could end up with one side getting "better stats" than another side. In most battles I've read about, luck has often been a contributing factor on the outcome. Why also not in Arma?

Some obvious bad sides:

1) I expect most people, especially the "elite", want "their skill" to be the only determining factor for how well they play, and more importantly, shoot.

2) Complex to setup algorithms for, and would take ages to tweak to "get right".

Probably more on the bad side, feel free to add some of your own. Is something like this something the devs could eventually consider, or is it utter crap?

To be honest i am dissapointed that Ace2 didnt continue using the same sway as they had in Ace1 :mad:

Keep in mind it was a "fixed sway", that would always affect you unless you rested your weapon. There was no "contributing factors", not even suppression effects iirc. But many people complained that they couldn't hit anything. Very true, but neither could the AI which we could control easily. We reduced the accuracy of AI, and could have battles over a street top lasting an hour. It was nothing short of amazing.

But, we were outvoted, so I guess that's that, and its' back to good old fashioned turkey shoot. I'm not disappointed with ACE, only the masses who wants a realistic game, but with difficulties of accepting "negatives" as well as "positives" with a mod :) I've tried other methods to "bring the fight closer", not all of which have been equally well received ;)

Edited May 5, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[7 0]

I agree with most of your suggestions, Carl. But when you say that the pros want it to be pure skill, consider that shooting accurately with weapon sway is considered, according to empirical evidence observed by your's truly, a lot more skillful than the other way around.

[zork 10]

Carl, good points, but I doubt BIS devs will implement even half of what you described in the next Arma 3.

Do you know how ACE1 devs implemented weapon sway in Arma? I can perfectly live with the "static" weapon sway.

[Protegimus 0]

This has come up quite a bit during recent discussion and I agree, an element of weapon sway should be part of the game.

To this end, I've made a simple addon that simulates a level of weapon sway that can be overcome by skill of the shooter without becoming a distraction.

As mentioned in the readme, it is balanced in favour of gameplay due to the way weapon sway is simulated.

Just grab the following files:

ARMA II Zeu_Weaponsway_readme.txt

zeu_c_anims_weaponsway.pbo

zeu_c_anims_weaponsway.pbo.ZEU.bisign

from the Yoma Addon Sync repository. The Auto config URL is:

http://www.computerrepair.uk.net/updater/ArmA2-repo.7z

Further instructions are included in the readme.

I'll create a thread in the ArmA 2 - ADDONS & MODS: COMPLETE section for feedback.

In the longer term, I hope BIS improve the animations and effects to more accurately portray this.

Protegimus

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Waiting eagerly for a mirror. Me and my friends not using Yoma.

[Inkompetent 0]

There is a mirror at the second page of the addon thread. Bust just because I'm so nice I'll post it here too ^^

FILEFRONT MIRROR AT: http://www.filefront.com/16377613/zcommon_weaponsway_v1.rar/