Integrated mod/addon distribution as future Arma feature?

[quiet_man 8]

Hello,

what about including a function into future Arma to synchronize Mods/Addons?

I know there are tools out there, but many people don't get this far. A popular public server tries to convince people to install CAA1 for playing on Arma1 islands but without success so far.

Also see current thread in this forum about finding which addons for which server.

And I played a open source driving simulator lately http://rigsofrods.blogspot.com/ with an (in work) update system that includes addons to play online.

I think an integrated feature to synchronize addons at all online Arma instances would heavily increase the value of the game for the more casual gamers. Online game servers could forward the addresses of repositories and a new installation of Arma would download itself the required addons when first connecting.

Just brainstorming. Open for discussion.

QuietMan

[Pulverizer 1]

Some people seem to be confused even by the automatic downloading of user missions. Imagine the forum posts this feature would spawn...

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It has been suggested many times before. If downloading small addons was made too simple, I think it would ruin the public multiplayer. Each and every server would have their little personalized funny addon collection of varying quality levels and your game dir would soon become a complete mess. You'd never quite know what kind of modifications each server made to all weapon parameters or when a server owner would think it's funny to have everyone wear christmas hats etc.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Pulverizer
addendum

[quiet_man 8]

Some people seem to be confused even by the automatic downloading of user missions. Imagine the forum posts this feature would spawn...

---

It has been suggested many times before. If downloading small addons was made too simple, I think it would ruin the public multiplayer. Each and every server would have their little personalized funny addon collection of varying quality levels and your game dir would soon become a complete mess. You'd never quite know what kind of modifications each server made to all weapon parameters or when a server owner would think it's funny to have everyone wear christmas hats etc.

maybe I was not clear enough. I don't want download from gameservers but some sort of "official" community repository. The gameserver would only help to find the servers. If a small driving sim community get this going, why not the Arma fans?

QuietMan

[Pulverizer 1]

I take it you haven't heard of Arma Addon Sync? You can get CAA1, ACE2 and some other mods through it and keep them updated.

I don't think integrating a similar solution would make the game better for casual players as you suggest, but worse. If you don't know what the crap you're doing, you better not be downloading a mishmash of random addons and mods from 1000 different modders.

There's also the matter of moderation if it was an official part of the game. Who will have the time to test all the funny little addons and mods for critical errors and make sure they don't interfere with one another when loaded simultaneously? That would be practically impossible.

[whisper 0]

Oh, yeah, let's take as a base assumption that the players base and server owner crowd are all completely stupid, and work from that. That's sure the best way to achieve things....

[/facepalm]

[quiet_man 8]

I take it you haven't heard of Arma Addon Sync? You can get CAA1, ACE2 and some other mods through it and keep them updated.

I'm using both: Six Updater and Addon Sync. They are not straight forward and most people don't use them.

I don't think integrating a similar solution would make the game better for casual players as you suggest, but worse. If you don't know what the crap you're doing, you better not be downloading a mishmash of random addons and mods from 1000 different modders.

There's also the matter of moderation if it was an official part of the game. Who will have the time to test all the funny little addons and mods for critical errors and make sure they don't interfere with one another when loaded simultaneously? That would be practically impossible.

Hmmmm, isn't that exactly what happens now? Already a number of people are spending time to make Addons work together and create recommended mod lists. Only problem is that few people will download it. If a small "core set" of addons (units, weapons, vehicles, islands) could be distributed easily to all Arma installations. It would greatly increase the possibilities for mission makers.

Maybe you should take a look at the mission forums?

QuietMan

Before someone complains: I don't want to remove the possibility to install whatever addon you like. Just have a core set anyone will have.

[Pulverizer 1]

Oh, yeah, let's take as a base assumption that the players base and server owner crowd are all completely stupid, and work from that. That's sure the best way to achieve things....

You'd be right >50% of the time so it's a good bet. Just look at all the threads asking how do I install mod X or use addon Y, even though they have perfectly good instructions and readmes.

Observe:

I'm using both: Six Updater and Addon Sync. They are not straight forward and most people don't use them.

It couldn't possibly get much simpler than Addon Sync yet even the people who actually bother to download it complain that it's difficult to use. Just imagine if that thing was bolted onto Arma2 main menu so everyone would be using it...

I wouldn't mind, because I has the smarts, but I can see the chaos it would cause amongst the average player.

Besides, if they can't be bothered to download Addon Sync, what makes you think they want mods and addons in the first place?

On one hand you are saying players are too stupid/lazy to get addons and mods with Addon Sync or by manual install, but at the same time assume they're knowledgeable enough know what mods to install, what addon goes with what mods, and how Arma addons and mods work in general. You don't see the discord there?

Edited March 2, 2010 by Pulverizer

[whisper 0]

LOL

Elitism crap.

You're nothing above average

[Taxman 10]

I wouldnt consider myself as stupid or ABOVE average and I have been playing arma ofp since the beginning and yet I downloaded that addon sync and couldnt get to grips with it (and neither did half my mates in our team),,, I managed to get the addons I wanted in the end and also a load of crap I didnt want... YES its a useful tool but it def needs work to make it easier to use... havent tried the Six updater yet.....

Honestly though what is needed is a better option for servers to state what addons are required and where to find them, All this in the multiplayer screen, similar to the BF screen which gives you more info, when u highlight a server. shouldnt be that hard ? should it.

[IceShade 0]

I'm with Pulverizer here. If people find even Yoma's AddonSync difficult to use/comprehend, there's no hope.

What's so difficult about it? What's there to understand? You paste a provided url to a tab called "Auto config URL", you click import, click the "Download Addons" tab, and then download the addons. It's all done for you.

rSync is a lot less user friendly, but if you follow the provided manual, it's easy enough to set up.

Not to mention we also have a stickied thread in this forum section called "MP Mission manuals here please!" with lots and lots of information. On top of that, Terox made this Multiplayer Guide.

If you want to know how to use Six Updater or Yoma's, read through them. It's all about RTFM.

Edited March 2, 2010 by IceShade

[whisper 0]

But it could be done easier, from in game, etc...

That wouldn't change anything, wouldn't hit anything negatively, but, well, some people consider any improvement (any change in fact) as bad, because, well, it's different, or I don't know why...

It's done in many other game

And it's not because ArmA is that different to any other game that it shouldn't use the good ideas in said other games that have zero impact on the core of what ArmA is (scale and freedom, and in fact such a feature is just enhancement of freedom and openness...but that's the new way of seeing the ArmA serie, close it as much as possible from "Ze Strangers", "the Pleb", apparently)

PS : 80% of any game population never go into the official game's forum. ArmA is no exception

[NoRailgunner 0]

BIS can improve information about required addons for missions.

BIS can make it easier to start the game with parameters, user-profiles, addons etc eg. developing a launcher.

"Integrated mod/addon distribution" sounds handy but should BIS blindly trust (public) server owner "Ze stranger"? Who is the first to blame/sue when things going wrong?

If there would be a big publisher in the background with money, time and staff to setup/admin some public servers - BIS would be happy too. ;)

-------

80% of any game population never go into the official game's forum.

One could also say that the human stupidity is a major sales/key factor in entertainment industry. :cylon:

[Taxman 10]

But you are still in the position where you dont know what addons a server is running... not your average pick up and play type of player........... I log on... I try to connect to a server.. I get kicked because I lack required addons.... I dont then go find out which addons are required.. boot up yommas or six.. get the addons then go back to find which server I got kicked from... to find that they have changed mission, and now I need diff addons... etc.......

What I do is go find a server without addons.. BUT THATs just me....:) Would be nice to be able to see at a glance what addons are running or are likely to be run on a particular server,, THEN I might put some time in to actually learn how to use the addon sync a bit better.....

Maybe we could get a directory of servers on here showing what addons are likely to be used ? or is there one already...

[KELLO 0]

your going into the realms of a community server setup again here, where all nominated servers include certain addons, tried to do this a few times with very poor response, think it is what it is, certain groups play together all the time and they use the addons they feel suits them, nothing wrong with that, just the way it is...

[Taxman 10]

I totally agree with you Kello matey.............. I prefer to play Vanilla but then thats just because of the types of missions I norm play.... but I still get sooooooooooo many peeps trying to connect to our server with addons that we dont allow....... this could be avoided if we (server admin) had an option to list in the multiplayer screen what we do and dont alllow on server, and whats required....... at least it would save a lot of time.

[terox 316]

this could be avoided if we (server admin) had an option to list in the multiplayer screen what we do and dont alllow on server, and whats required....... at least it would save a lot of time.

There is information on the gamespy browsers if folks bother to read.

Our server runs ACE, it clearly states "ACE" in the server title as seen in the gamespy browser. We have a community manual that states where and how to get the addons. We have a BIS gaming night thread that states all this.

So if the answer was so simple, why the hell do we get players joining every night without the required addons.

This is an example of the nanny culture that the youth of today expect. If its not brought to them on a silver platter, then they can't cope.

Bring back lego and meccano!

[EdibleVonPurplington 10]

There is information on the gamespy browsers if folks bother to read.

Our server runs ACE, it clearly states "ACE" in the server title as seen in the gamespy browser. We have a community manual that states where and how to get the addons. We have a BIS gaming night thread that states all this.

Does your server title state what version of ACE it is running? Does it state whether or not it is running just @ACE, or if it uses @ACEX and @ACE_SM as well? Should I assume a server that just says ACE is running @CBA and @ACE and nothing else because it would state if it were running anything in addition to that? Is there actually enough room in the title to give all of this information and still actually have a title?

Does your server title give a direct link to the community manual? A clickable link that will take me directly to the page I need or do I need to try and google search for your server name and find your clan homepage and then find the section explaining what addons your servers uses and how to get mine synced?

This is an example of a request for a better integration of addon support for player clients being responded to with elitist insults. This isn't about nannies and silver platters, this is about a request for more capable support tools for features provided by the game. We have nothing but 2x1 yellow bricks and we'd like some additional sizes and shapes, we feel it would increase the value and usability of the product as a whole.

My own pet peeve is that I have to decide what addons I load up with before I even look at the server list to see what servers are populated, at which point I likely have to shut down and figure out exactly what set of addons that server uses and start with those exact ones running. If I have the required addon files for compatibility with a server, when I attempt to join it my game should automatically restart with the proper files loaded and connect to that server.

The servers are already prone to having their own unique custom setup of mods so my game folder is already becoming cluttered with all the different addons. I would love integrated HTTP forwarding for auto dl of addons on a prompt so I could save some time trying to version match with every server I want to play on.

I'd also like to state that people in this thread seem to be conflating inexperience with file directory management, computer terms and software versioning systems with a general lack of intelligence or motivation. The instructions can all seem perfectly straight forward to somebody who has some experience with the concepts involved, the question still remains whether reasonable expectations of end user knowledge are being made. If you just bought the game off steam because it had good reviews and seemed interesting and tried to jump in to a server and got splashed with a cannot join mission missing resource blahblah.pbo, what is the expected response by the average end user? Why do you expect your end user to respond in that way?

[LugNut 10]

+1

It should work just like many other FPS's out there, you see a server on the list, you can see it's modded by it's description and when you join, if you don't already have the mod, you get redirected to a secondary server (same owner as the server) where you DL it and it gets installed.

Would a mod like ACE be a pain to DL? Yes, but just like now, you'd only do it once. Mods would auto update when you join, islands would DL if you didn't have them, it'd be painless.

I cannot for the life of me see why so many complain when this is brought up. It wouldn't ruin the game, you wouldn't be overrun with noobs, the world wouldn't end. Those who didn't want to run mods, wouldn't sit through DL them, just like now. Who knows, you might find more populated servers to choose from. How can that be a bad thing?

[Defunkt 431]

It is naive to suppose it is so straightforward. What if you want to join a server running an ACE beta release, should it overwrite your ACE 1.0 folder? Create a new folder for each new beta release? Decide to overwrite the beta release used on your usual favourite server? There are other games that do it but none of them have to deal with the volume and variety of modifications available for this game. And when the server has downloaded 800MB of ACE how will you know how to use it if you haven't had to invest a single ounce of energy in seeking out what it is and what it does.

[radical.ghost 0]

Hi,

in my opinion a good solution to this that fits other issues as well would be a server browser integrated dialog or maybe just a simple scrollable popup window that shows the content of a text file belonging to the corresponding server.

Server Admins could write down server rules, used addons, allowed addons, links to download neccessary addons, links to Clan - Websites, etc. for each hosted gameserver.

All one had to do would be to click the "Server Info" - Button in the server browser, check out the provided info for the server of interest and maybe download the required addons.

Also text formatting support to be able to show colored and highlighted text inside that dialog / popup window would be lovely to have.

But that's all just a suggestion.

Thanks for your attention,

r:g

[Alex72 1]

Hi,

in my opinion a good solution to this that fits other issues as well would be a server browser integrated dialog or maybe just a simple scrollable popup window that shows the content of a text file belonging to the corresponding server.

Server Admins could write down server rules, used addons, allowed addons, links to download neccessary addons, links to Clan - Websites, etc. for each hosted gameserver.

All one had to do would be to click the "Server Info" - Button in the server browser, check out the provided info for the server of interest and maybe download the required addons.

Also text formatting support to be able to show colored and highlighted text inside that dialog / popup window would be lovely to have.

But that's all just a suggestion.

Thanks for your attention,

r:g

Sounds like a pretty good idea. I dont know much about these things but that is kinda what we have missed out on. It would also be easy for those never been to ARMA forums getting a popup telling them the necessary info plus links to the right places. The browser thingy in ARMA is pretty bad when you cant see the full names/addons/players etc. And there is no info "button" where server keepers could fill whats needed and add links. And thats what your solution would help with.

[LugNut 10]

It is naive to suppose it is so straightforward. What if you want to join a server running an ACE beta release, should it overwrite your ACE 1.0 folder? Create a new folder for each new beta release? Decide to overwrite the beta release used on your usual favourite server? There are other games that do it but none of them have to deal with the volume and variety of modifications available for this game. And when the server has downloaded 800MB of ACE how will you know how to use it if you haven't had to invest a single ounce of energy in seeking out what it is and what it does.

Yup, some huge mods here. Not all are, but Ace certainly is.

Would new/different versions have to overwrite previous? I dunno, maybe, depends on the mod team I guess. I'm no computer geek, but it seems in other games, it's server side dependent. For major releases, you DL a new copy, for minor changes/bug fixes, it's incremental.

So, if one of your servers uses ModA, ModB, ModC V1 and another uses ModA, ModZ and ModC V2, you'd have Mod A, B, Z and both C V1 and C V2 on your HD with a config for each server on what parts(or all) of each mod it uses.

How would you learn to use the functions in each mod? Like elsewhere, probably by asking dumb questions in game. :p For something as huge as Ace, I agree, it'd certainly pay to RTFM.

While I agree it's a complicated thing with all the varied mods out there, but I can't believe it'd be unworkable. I think it'd be far better than doing everything manually and each player having to wade through forums and figure it out on their own. Besides the loss of potential good players who either can't or don't want to learn the nuts and bolts of mod installation. Personally, I'd rather just play.

The amount of content you had to DL to your HD wouldn't be any different than it is now and the task of learning a new mod would still be the same.

[sbsmac 0]

Here's what I would like. It's really very simple...

When I connect to a server, it should automatically downloads everything (including mods) required to play the mission. Bonus points if it can give me some idea of how long that download will take. Triple-bonus if I can find out ahead of time from the browser. Yes, there are some issues around disk-space etc but nothing insurmountable.

[KELLO 0]

can the mods be added into the actual mission folder before its pbo'd?? I'm not sure about that coz i have done no scripting... but i think you should be able to answer this one mac:confused: that way when you connect to the server, the mission would download, with the included mods... but would only be related to that mission... again just thinking out loud if its a load of :j: then just ignore my ramblings...

[sbsmac 0]

In theory that would be a possible solution but it's not a great one because every mission that used a particular mod would have to include it, thus increasing mission size massively. Better to have a separate mod-manager so that mods can be shared between missions.