Recoil

[Scheintot 10]

Arma 2 need a more realistic recoil... I hate it to say it but the recoil jet is very fucking bad.... in A1 it was great with ACE1... I wish we get the same one or a more realistic recoil... now its very unrealistic - really. ;)

[Aeneas2020 10]

...you could try...ace2?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=92466&page=383

what is so bad about the recoil exactly can you be more specific? I am assuming you have fired a great many of these weapons in real life?

[Scheintot 10]

Im not a greenhorn dude.... and not the only one who critisieses the recoil.

In reality the recoil of an M16 goes back, not up you know...

And yea, I do but ACE2 cant change the recoil cauz its a engine matter.

[max power 21]

Im not a greenhorn dude.... and not the only one who critisieses the recoil.

In reality the recoil of an M16 goes back, not up you know...

And yea, I do but ACE2 cant change the recoil cauz its a engine matter.

Weapon recoil is an animation in plain text form in each weapon config. LOL. It's one of the easier things to modify in the game. Why would you make assumptions about something you know absolutely nothing about? One must question your supposition about rifle recoil, whether it is correct or not, just because we now know you're willing to make statements about stuff you have zero information about. It boggles the mind.

[Scheintot 10]

The Devs from ACE told me that about the engine... I think they use the same programming like in ACE1 but it doesnt work in Arma 2/ACE2.....

@recoil, ask an US Marine or look an M16 Dokumentation to see the truth. ;)

[Q1184 0]

Related CIT tickets:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/4401

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/5653

[max power 21]

It seems like the first person eye view is locked to the weapon for translation in the y axis, so the rearward recoil impulse is not noticed. The camera stuff may be hard coded, but the recoil impulses are well within our grasp to modify.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Max Power

[galzohar 31]

There was a thread around here of someone working on a mod to change the recoil to a more realistic pattern, and while he did make an improvement I don't think he continued working on it to the point where it really is good. Also there *are* limitations in how you can modify the recoil so you can't mod it to be as realistic as you could if you just changed how it works from the core (which probably won't happen :().

ACE increases recoil for certain weapons and increases confire (and the confire increase is too much if you ask me... Having trouble hitting at 300m with an ACOG when I have the target exactly on my sights because it spreads the shot randomly around the ACOG's crosshair), so it is better with ACE, but still not even close to how it should be.

[Scheintot 10]

Im very sad about that... BIS - pls change it....

[Chumba 10]

The recoil in 1.05 is .... acceptable in amount - but the big problems are that it seems to happen a fraction of a heartbeat AFTER the shot - and then the whole recoil sequence is too SLOW.

In ARMA1 I basically edited it out altogether as a better option than the rubbish default. Some mods appeared that were ok but none got it quite right IMO.

M16 family weapons in particular have very little off axis kick - and even the axial force isn't very great at all - you have to be pretty badly positioned not to be able to hold a bead fairly easily. Multi-tapping in ARMA2 puts you ALL out of shape which simply isn't how it works with the real thing - simple as that.

What I don't get is that they had all this stuff right in OFP so WTF happened since??

[Deadfast 43]

In reality the recoil of an M16 goes back, not up you know...

And how exactly do you want to simulate this in a game?

Have it push you 3 meters backwards each time you fire?

[Chumba 10]

And how exactly do you want to simulate this in a game?

Have it push you 3 meters backwards each time you fire?

You've actually answered his point exactly - ie. in the GAME we're dealing with a 3D effect being presented in 2 dimensions - we can't produce rearward kick and there's very little lateral displacement - so the recoil ONSCREEN should be quite small and very QUICK.

Actually... when I think about it, recoil ingame shouldn't take the form of the sight / scope etc. moving on screen at all - what SHOULD happen is the player "HUD" should stay completely still while the visible world "jumps" instead. This comes from the realisation that actually the recoil isn't too bad at all but there's just something not right about it - and I think that might be it.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Chumba

[galzohar 31]

The biggest problem with the way recoil is simulated is that it's simulating the weapon going "off target" and then the soldier compensating for it and bringing it back in some kind of an animation, but the result is the weapon always pointing right back where it was before you fired so the player does not need to make any adjustments. IRL after every shot you fire you will have to make at least some kind of adjustment (bigger adjustments for bigger ranges of course) as recoil IRL is not a "cyclic" thing that starts and ends with the rifle in the exact same position.

The actual amount of recoil in the game (or at least in ACE2) is actually more or less correct, it's the method in which recoil is simulated that's terribly wrong. It simply doesn't throw off your aim if you fire at a certain rate of fire and it always has that same weird pattern.

[Chumba 10]

Even the vanilla game recoil is actually quite reasonable - ACE2 is even better - I have no problem with the amounts of deflection or even their speed - and certainly resettling to the aimpoint doesn't bother me - IRL with M16 it's easily possible to maintain the same sort of tempo as the settling ingame produces (other weapons might not be quite right tho I grant - ie. I haven't fired AK47 or 74) - but as I've said, I've now personally realised that the big problem isn't with the recoil itself - it's rather that the player doesn't actually HAVE any recoil!. It's only the weapon that's recoiling and that's just not right and produces a STRONG sense of it all being "off".

Ideally of course there'd be two movements - one being the "whole screen" jolt and the other being the weapon sight moving simultaneously within that larger movement - but just transposing so that the sight stays still whilst the whole world jumps would be a tremendous improvement.

When you think about it, even with the aimpoint resettling quite quickly and back to the original position, the whole screen jumping will be quite disorienting and I'd suggest most people would have to concentrate not to involuntarily move their aim (creating the same sensation as working to re establish the aim) - and certainly moving quickly between different targets will be much harder work. Overall I think it would produce a "feel" that's MUCH closer to the real experience than what we have now.

[galzohar 31]

No matter how good you are your weapon should not return to the exact same spot as it does now. Right now aside from breathing effects and dispersion, if you fire slowly enough you will hit the exact same spot without doing anything other than pressing the fire button. This simply isn't right.

[PuFu 4598]

No matter how good you are your weapon should not return to the exact same spot as it does now. Right now aside from breathing effects and dispersion, if you fire slowly enough you will hit the exact same spot without doing anything other than pressing the fire button. This simply isn't right.

It has been reported over @ CIT

The weapon aim returning on mouse position after each fire is hardcoded, and there is no way around it via configs. Plus there is no way to properly simulate back kick of the rifle, opposed to A1, which was possible

Here is the difference between A1 and A2 systems.

http://dev-heaven.net/attachments/2466/recoilsA1A2_1.avi

[Scheintot 10]

And how exactly do you want to simulate this in a game?

Have it push you 3 meters backwards each time you fire?

Look, I want the same recoil like in A1.... its more realistic. The recoil in A2 is unrealistic and its possible to make it more realistic in a video game as in A2..

Even CoDMW2 has a more realistic recoil as Arma 2.... and sorry but this is the truth.

And dont forget it, arma is a simulation... originally. At least I read this at the package...

So.... in the reality the recoil goes back, not up... maybe its not possible to make it 100% like in the reality but its possible to make it back, not up... and its to slow.

I dont understand the reason why they change the recoil anyway....

[kklownboy 43]

Im not a greenhorn dude.... and not the only one who critisieses the recoil.

In reality the recoil of an M16 goes back, not up you know...

And yea, I do but ACE2 cant change the recoil cauz its a engine matter.

I dont know, the AR15s i have fired had some "up" and the "back" was smaller in comparison...? both are so small anyways if you have a rest... Uhh recoil is changeable... its not in A2?

[Chumba 10]

No matter how good you are your weapon should not return to the exact same spot as it does now. Right now aside from breathing effects and dispersion, if you fire slowly enough you will hit the exact same spot without doing anything other than pressing the fire button. This simply isn't right.

I hear what you're saying, but setting aside the physical realities of what the game does - the "result" IMO is perfectly acceptable in the context of comparison to the real thing - ie. the game making the same sort of correction you make pretty much unconsciously IRL is no problem.

Altho I actually now realise my big problem is the lack of overall world jumping and have said I'm ok with both the deflection and speed of recoils I do actually agree with Sheintot that it could definitely be faster.

Last night I pretty much came to grips with unpacking and repacking .pbo's and decompressing .bins etc. so I'll look at what can be done with recoil speeds at least (I'm aware they config differently to ARMA1 and have to check out what's possible yet).

On a different tangent: I think I've worked out how to get rid of just Rabbits (they're nice touch but ultimately an unneccessary system drag) by setting their chance of appearance to zero in the chernarous island config - and am looking into replacing the brown small tree and shrub models with one of the other greener ones - as well as trying to figure out how to make the general game coloration look like the lovely rich saturated look we see in the background of the save screen.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Chumba

[Beagle 684]

So.... in the reality the recoil goes back, not up...

Sorry but you are wrong in your statement. I shoot firearms of a broad range on weekly base, and even a nifty .22 Match Pistol has a noticable muzzle rise.

The muzzle rise is different with every firearm, but as a simple rule you can say the the lower the handle is from the barrel axis and the lighter the firearm, the more muzzel rise is to be experienced.

Firearms like the MG-3 mashine gun dont have a noticable muzzle rise or recoil..it is just to heavy.

technical a firearm has no muzzle rise...its the shooters body that makes it rise.

Very unergonomical guns like 4" .357 revolvers or classic stockbutt shotguns have the most horrid muzzle rise in my experience.

[Chumba 10]

Well I've figured out how to make the recoils quicker which improves the feel of it immeasurably. The configs do seem to have the ability to end the recoil in a slightly different position - I might be wrong - will check it out properly tomorrow.

And I've realised that scope optic views actually present recoil the way I'm talking about - ie. the world jumps, not the weapon - so if I can figure out how to make AIMpoint, Holo and Ironsight optic views use that same setting I'll be a happy camper.

Looks like I've got the colour saturation thing licked - my ARMA looks lovely and colorful now - not grainy and desaturated like Saving Private Ryan (thumbsup).

Having a problem with getting rid of rabbits and altering the trees so there are no dead ones - when I repack chernarus.pbo something's going wrong and it messes up. All other pbo's are packing ok - this is the only one giving me a problem. Will carry on tomorrow.

[An Fiach 10]

So we are not so much talking about recoil as we are muzzle climb and auto centering?

[galzohar 31]

So we are not so much talking about recoil as we are muzzle climb and auto centering?

It's all in the same package, as those are all effects that happen as a result of recoil.

[krazikilla 5]

yes, should be definitly changed.

the autocentering is pretty annoying, pls BIS :)

[max power 21]

I think we're talking about the rifle moving forward and backward in the iron sight view. Forward and backward movement is animated in the configs but it looks like the camera is constrained to front and rearward movement. If I'm correct in that there is front and back movement but no relative front and back movement from the camera's frame of reference.