Why is this game not more popular?

[nukey 10]

As a new user myself, the main gripes is that its over complicated, things like ordering your team, there is just to many commands. how many line formations do you really need? getting your team to not fire or only fire when fired upon, entering buildings, trying to get them into vehicles, watching them drive is annoying at best. im sure arma vets will have no problem doing these things, but your average user wont. In short, poor interface.

The campaign is disjointed, some parts are really good and involving while other parts are unclear and boring. The single player missions are an improvement but there is not enough of them.

Multiplayer can be a big disappointment, everyone thinks this has great potential but it just doesnt live up to it, i cant understand why people would choose to play online and then fight bots? the game is crying out for a simple PvP mode which is included from the 'off. Trying to get on a server with MODS is also a nightmare,the server should download the MODS needed when you connect, or turn of MODS which are not allowed, all this needs to be done automatically.

MODS are quite simply the best thing about the game, i must have about 30+ going but they are far to hard to get working,people don't want to be opening folders and changing the game icon text to get them working. The launchers now are very good and a massive time saver, BIS should include there own with the game.

I personally love the game, i understand its a simulation, and there-fore not easy to play but there must be a happy medium some where, where it can get the sales of an arcade shooter,and yet still be tough as balls, maybe different modes could be included, so new players can get to grips at a steady pace.

Anyways its just another opinion, nothing more.

[whisper 0]

Obviously some people do not want this to happen.

Apparently, ArmA2 and following titles MUST be hard to get into, SHALL NOT use simple interface to set up mods, MUST force you to figure out, download and install manually every addon/mods used online to be able to play, force you into searching by yourself informations about missions and gamemods to figure out what is played in the online server list, etc....

For what reason? Because all this has nothing to do with the level of realism in the game, the scale of the game, the immersion of the game, the open nature of the game, it's just something that put away newcomers.

The only reason I see to such reactions : Newcomers are not welcome in ArmA2 for some people. That's the elitist reaction I talk about, right there.

[Bulldogs 10]

I never got the newcomers not welcome thing. I've never seen any newcomer be put down in the community or online, but I've heard there's some pretty bad public servers, and I've seen a few teamkillers myself, but we usually team up to hunt them down til they get kicked.

[galzohar 31]

I never got the newcomers not welcome thing. I've never seen any newcomer be put down in the community or online...

You should read the forums more then. I'm with Whisper on this.

[An Fiach 10]

As a new user myself, the main gripes is that its over complicated, things like ordering your team, there is just to many commands. how many line formations do you really need? getting your team to not fire or only fire when fired upon, entering buildings, trying to get them into vehicles, watching them drive is annoying at best. im sure arma vets will have no problem doing these things, but your average user wont. In short, poor interface.

The campaign is disjointed, some parts are really good and involving while other parts are unclear and boring. The single player missions are an improvement but there is not enough of them.

Multiplayer can be a big disappointment, everyone thinks this has great potential but it just doesnt live up to it, i cant understand why people would choose to play online and then fight bots? the game is crying out for a simple PvP mode which is included from the 'off. Trying to get on a server with MODS is also a nightmare,the server should download the MODS needed when you connect, or turn of MODS which are not allowed, all this needs to be done automatically.

MODS are quite simply the best thing about the game, i must have about 30+ going but they are far to hard to get working,people don't want to be opening folders and changing the game icon text to get them working. The launchers now are very good and a massive time saver, BIS should include there own with the game.

I personally love the game, i understand its a simulation, and there-fore not easy to play but there must be a happy medium some where, where it can get the sales of an arcade shooter,and yet still be tough as balls, maybe different modes could be included, so new players can get to grips at a steady pace.

Anyways its just another opinion, nothing more.

Interesting perspective, so the command interface is too complicated, except that you clarify in saying you have too many options, this point confuses me since you can choose not to bother with any of them. So either the interface is poor because you like having fewer choices or is it the way that you access those choices which is giving you the problems?

Getting AI into vehicles is quite simple, it takes 2 key presses, but I can quite understand the frustration with getting them into buildings and watching them drive, the pathing is either poorly aligned or the AI is having issues when presented with multiple choices, likely a combination of both but I guess it is a consequence of having actual AI rather than scripted bots.

Can't say much about the missions as I completely agree, but I do disagree with you about online play. You can choose to coop or to pvp, there are servers for both, which game modes others choose to play needn't concern you, everybody wants something different. Mods are mostly client side, so downloading from servers would be pointless and potentially dangerous for your pc, not to mention the effects on server performance and that people don't want to connect and find themselves downloading a 2Gb mod, simply changing the server browser to show mods running on a server would be a great help. BIS including a launcher has been mentioned before and I think most if not all agree with that point, it doesn't make sense for a game so dependent on community mods not to include a mod launcher as part of the product.

---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------

You should read the forums more then. I'm with Whisper on this.

Really? have you been ostracized for being new to the community? I know that I haven't. Most newcomers I see get blasted are those that made forum accounts to bash mission/mod makers or to troll every thread to say how bad the game is but are not here to ask for help or to contribute to the community.

[whisper 0]

I was not talking about the people new to the forums. I was talking about people new to the game.

Forum posters are a minority

[An Fiach 10]

You also said "for some people", meaning there's a few who feel that way, not the majority.

[whisper 0]

I hope so, but reactions on this thread make me nervous, that's why I posted the above

[Gottberg 10]

Speaking for myself the mod system is far too complicated. It seems with using mods in other games it's far mosre simple. Just download, click and it self installs. With ARMA2 there's different types of installers with very vague directions on how to use. It seems you can spend eternity browsing the forums trying to figure out Yoma or sixupdater. Jesus, I would give anything for one simple noob thread that gives decent start to finish directions for using the ACE mod on a server (example).

[jblackrupert 14]

The interface, mod/addon installation needs to be a lot less Linux complication and a lot more Windows simplification.

Say what you want about Windows and Bill gates but he did one thing right

he hired a bunch of people to take something complicated to the layman

and got in packaged into something everyone can use.

Just trying to join servers running mods and addons can be a real nightmare

trying to figure out what you need and where to get them.

As much as people want to say the mod/addon download tools available are easy to use

they're actually pretty messy and unnecessarily complicated and intimidating to someone

who's never done it before.

The people who write these things need to stand back and look at it from

the perpective of someone who doesn't understand these things.

You don't need a 10 page manual to teach someone to mop a floor

but thats the problem, the people designing the programs and system

are doing just that. overcomplicating things.

[Gottberg 10]

The interface, mod/addon installation needs to be a lot less Linux complication and a lot more Windows simplification.

Say what you want about Windows and Bill gates but he did one thing right

he hired a bunch of people to take something complicated to the layman

and got in packaged into something everyone can use.

Just trying to join servers running mods and addons can be a real nightmare

trying to figure out what you need and where to get them.

As much as people want to say the mod/addon download tools available are easy to use

they're actually pretty messy and unnecessarily complicated and intimidating to someone

who's never done it before.

The people who write these things need to stand back and look at it from

the perpective of someone who doesn't understand these things.

You don't need a 10 page manual to teach someone to mop a floor

but thats the problem, the people designing the programs and system

are doing just that. overcomplicating things.

Thank god there is someone else out there like me. I've been playing multiplayer games for some time now and this is the first game that has me stumped when it comes to mod/addon download tools. I'm betting this is one of the main reasons the game has not gotten as popular as others.

[An Fiach 10]

forget the tools, six updater was designed to help with the beta run of ACE so folks wouldn't have to download 2Gb every other day, a milestone version will be released soon. Yoma is great but it is not needed, you only need to know how custom mod folders work to install the majority of mods and it is pretty simple, send a pm if you need help.

[jblackrupert 14]

It's the same reason NASA doesn't have the rocket scientists who built the shuttle on TV explaning how it works.

They're smart cookies when it comes building rockets but ask them to explain it to people

watching at home then things ain't so pretty anymore.

Their Rocket scientists. smart at rockets but completely retarded at dealing with people.

It reminds of the scene in "I Robot" where Will Smiths character asks the woman scientist what she does, she rambles off a bunch of technicle mumbo jumbo

and he's standing there with a stunned look. She then explains it in a simple short sentence and he says "Now wasn't that easier to say" and she likes "Uh no, not really"

Bill gates is a geek who understands that MOST people don't know and don't care

how OS's work deep in the guts but he was smart enough to realize that getting

some people together to simplify it would pay off.

Linux wil never get anywhere like Windows until the geeks let someone else take over the job

of simpifying it. The same goes with Arma 2.

Let the coder,s modders and such do what their good at and then hand it off to someone who knows how to present it in a nice clean package.

Edited February 24, 2010 by jblackrupert

[Scrub 0]

Well that's the rub, the polish on a product - especially one that is complex as this - with numerous options, function, accessibility is the toughest part. We all would like a black box with a green 'go' button on it. And there are some that try to help the problem with loaders. But the problem remains to be the desires for individual customization. If you have a bunch of dependant Mods, you have in the end, a bunch of dependant mods to manage. Not at all saying it's impossible, just opposing spec's that need to be considered.

[whisper 0]

Let's not go on a Windows/Linux analogy or how Gates is da Man, I smell trolling incoming (I've to restrain myself atm :p )

[Gottberg 10]

PM sent asking for help Anifiach...

[Zipper5 74]

I'm not against newcomers at all. What I am against is people not even wanting to put in the time to simply add -mod=modname in their target line, or to even learn it. It's not hard at all, and many posts on the forum talk about it as do the community websites and the Biki. It takes a short search to find such things, and takes even less effort to apply them. To say that it's hard and difficult to do it is either laziness or it is simply being technologically inept.

But there are still things that I personally want to have the same general concept, but some tweaks and improvements elsewhere. For example - the interface. I love it, many seem to hate it. I think that improvements can be made for it but I don't want to see a whole new system simply because the modern gamer finds the current one "too difficult", when the same person complains about MP in MW2 being "too difficult".

I'm up for change, but not radical change to appease today's "gamer". That's my stance.

God, it sounds like politics... :butbut:

[jblackrupert 14]

1 simple easy to use program and a central location that links to mirrors to download

mods, addons....etc.

Like Yoma or six updater but without the command prompt popups, localhost server

ugliness and setup silliness.

Sure they both work but they are a jumbled mess to look at and use for regular people.

the geeks and coders don't see the problem but trust me, they are a mess and need

someone to tidy them up a lot.

There also needs to be some sort of translation system in place.

many of the instructions I've read look like something Google translate has spit out

I have to reread a dozen times to figure out what someone is trying to say

and thats with just the weapons/vehicles addons. I feel sorry for the people

that barely understand english.

[Zipper5 74]

Yes, I'm all for an integrated modding interface or some sort of official mod manager made by BIS to be used exclusively with ArmA II.

[whisper 0]

send a pm if you need help.

This is symptomatic, if you ask me, for example

I know it's wrong to make a generality from a single example, but should average newcomer be required to go on these forums, search for examples and ultimately PM one vet forum member to get on a modded server?

Initially, the guy just has installed the game, has clicked on multiplayer, chosen a server (usually, based on population on server and game type, if he can understand what's going on, ie, if he wants to play coop, as "coop" is the only understandable label in MP lobby), and got a strange messages about "missing contents in the mission making it unplayable".

From this point, he should end up PMing a forum member here? (quite a shortcut I'm doing here, but you get the point, I guess)

In ET:QW, would the same guy do the same thing, what would happen? A prompt in game would appear stating that he needs custom content that is not present on his HDD, and asking if he wants to download this content to be able to connect, or stop there and go back to lobby. It also indicates the download size.

Once the download is completed, the game is restarted (and THERE, the guys at SD have done something wrong, they don't warn about game restarting and newcomers think it's a crash) with parameters activating the addon, and auto-connecting to the server.

Just an example of the needed polishing to make the game more accessible, though it's probably tough to do for BI, but would go a long way toward accessibility goal.

Now, how would that affect content of the game, how realistic, blablabla, is the game? It has nothing to do with all that. More accessible doesn't mean lowering the standard.

I don't understand the reactions when concerns are raised about accessibility for new gamers. What would be the problem?

EDIT : quite a few posts made while I was writing this :)

[Deadfast 43]

With ARMA2 there's different types of installers with very vague directions on how to use. It seems you can spend eternity browsing the forums trying to figure out Yoma or sixupdater. Jesus, I would give anything for one simple noob thread that gives decent start to finish directions for using the ACE mod on a server (example).

Well, this one is not on ARMA 2 itself. Even I, who spent the last 5 years using various mods, have had infuriating problems installing ACE.

[jblackrupert 14]

[/color]

Well, this one is not on ARMA 2 itself. Even I, who spent the last 5 years using various mods, have had infuriating problems installing ACE.

I used Six updater to install it but during the whole time I was sitting there

wondering if it was even installing it at all. Command prompt popups

local server in a browser with the yellow bar at the top telling me

to change my security settings....

It worked but I still get popups in servers telling me stuff is missing.

First thing I do is hop in a chopper to look around and I get a message

saying I'm not allowed to fly a chopper or I'll get banned (Something about being TS?)

[An Fiach 10]

This is symptomatic, if you ask me, for example

I know it's wrong to make a generality from a single example, but should average newcomer be required to go on these forums, search for examples and ultimately PM one vet forum member to get on a modded server?

The short answer is yes, messing about with mods has nothing to do with the vanilla game. If a person has searched and doesn't understand the process, they should ask for help. Some mods/addons are simple,plug and play, and some require modules, sqf editing or other things. Has nothing to do with BIS.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

[/color]

I used Six updater to install it but during the whole time I was sitting there

wondering if it was even installing it at all. Command prompt popups

local server in a browser with the yellow bar at the top telling me

to change my security settings....

It worked but I still get popups in servers telling me stuff is missing.

First thing I do is hop in a chopper to look around and I get a message

saying I'm not allowed to fly a chopper or I'll get banned (Something about being TS?)

LOL that's got to do with server rules made by the individuals hosting, nothing to do with the mods, and stuff being missing is a result of having different versions of whatever mod being used by the server.

[whisper 0]

The short answer is yes, messing about with mods has nothing to do with the vanilla game. If a person has searched and doesn't understand the process, they should ask for help. Some mods/addons are simple,plug and play, and some require modules, sqf editing or other things. Has nothing to do with BIS.

Read my example with ET:QW (I took this one, I could have taken MW, many others...)

Why would this kind of system pose a problem in ArmA2?

[An Fiach 10]

Read my example with ET:QW (I took this one, I could have taken MW, many others...)

Why would this kind of system pose a problem in ArmA2?

It isn't a problem with the game itself when dealing with user mode content. Sure, we can ask for them to add features like that but that is saying "Hmm, it would be nice to have x features in this game." not saying "Hmm, this game is broken and too hard because there isn't a way to deal with user made mods". Most people never get to the point of wanting to use mods and so it is rather irrelevant to the question of why it is not popular.