Ultimate Realism

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

You just hit the nail right on the head! It isn't a request but merely an idea, in the sense that I'd like to see a mission/campaign built, based upon the conflict in Afghanistan

Notice the parts in bold. Sure looks like a request to me.

[infiltrator_2k 29]

Try that mission, there you have more civis than insurgents and lots of talking and patrouling. And defined soldier presets, so teamwork is forced. Should be realistic, because if youre dead you are gone (if the medic cant revive you with epipens, bandages and morphine).

And the map (afghan village) is the most realistic afghan map for arma in my eyes together with razani.

You are free to take this mission as base for more missions in this map, so you can make your little afghan campaign till arrowhead is arriving.

You can take whatever you want out of the mission.

Yeah, I was viewing both of the videos, very good & there seems to be a lot of other MODS being used in addition to the maps, ragdoll etc.. which obviously adds to the realism. I'm wondering if a team might one day get together to make missions based on real Middle Eastern combat scenarios - a historical reenactment if you like where certain conditions must be met in order to succeed...

A Falluja map/mission would be awsome, fast paced & intense! And have the insurgents lay IEDs for example to keep players on their toes, & the ability to be able to communicate with locals for information on insurgent positions etc..

[jw custom 56]

Ok I get it.... I can already feel the fustration in the air :D Vietnam & WWII mods it is then lol!

Vietnam:

VTE

Unsung

WWII:

liberation 1941-1945

Invasion 1944 - Wacht am Rhein

Edited December 29, 2009 by JW Custom

[Pain0815 10]

Yeah, I was viewing both of the videos, very good & there seems to be a lot of other MODS being used in addition to the maps, ragdoll etc.. which obviously adds to the realism. I'm wondering if a team might one day get together to make missions based on real Middle Eastern combat scenarios - a historical reenactment if you like where certain conditions must be met in order to succeed...

Its no video, its such a mission you requested! Just download it and the mods to run it and play!

Here is the download: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8935

by the way there are more afghan missions out, check armaholic mission base

[infiltrator_2k 29]

Its no video, its such a mission you requested! Just download it and the mods to run it and play!

Here is the download: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8935

by the way there are more afghan missions out, check armaholic mission base

I haven't actually requested anything Pain, but only raised a discussion with ideas on creating a more realistic experience with a Middle Eastern mission, although I seemed to have got linched for mentioning it, not that I'm bothered :rolleyes:

[Alex72 1]

2010 Operation Arrowhead - its not far away. Youll get exactlly what your requesting.

[irR4tiOn4L 10]

Or I know! How about a mission where youre the Sri Lankan army wiping out those nasty Tamils, or part of the Cambodian military putting the smackdown on those nasty tribes people.

Or taking control of Pakistan's military as it supposedly 'fights' the Taliban, where you get to shoot at empty houses and abandoned hills!

Or better yet, taking control of the Taliban or Mujahadeen or Iraqi insurgents and driving the Americans and their corporations right back out!

Maybe a war in Gaza?

Clearly 'realism' covers a BIT MORE than just Iraq or Afghanistan. I respect where youre coming from, but do you realise how narrow a field of views and situations you are asking for in the name of realism?

2010 Operation Arrowhead - its not far away. Youll get exactlly what your requesting.

Which is a real pity, because not all is as it seems over there

Edited December 30, 2009 by irR4tiOn4L

[nikita320106 0]

Cambodian military putting the smackdown on those nasty tribes people.

)olda hippie here)) peace dawg))

))

[Tobie 10]

OK, if we want a MOD that is realistic & up-to-date it would undoubtedly have to be based upon today's regional conflicts... Yes, I'm talking about the Middle East! :rolleyes: So let's have missions in Helmand Province where you're tasked to destroy poppy fields, hunt down the heads of the Taliban & engage the Taliban directly in firefights.

Let's have soldiers perform first aid on IED victims & Chinook pilots tasked to evacuate the wounded to nearby medicenters!

If we want the ultimate realistic experience, we'll have to create a MOD that's based on realsim itself!

the things you describe are already actually there in arma 1 with the ACE mod and the avgani/afghan village map. and you need a mission and the right people.

i recommend the tactical gamers server. they have very great team play. at least at that time i was playing on it.

[infiltrator_2k 29]

Or I know! How about a mission where youre the Sri Lankan army wiping out those nasty Tamils, or part of the Cambodian military putting the smackdown on those nasty tribes people.

Or taking control of Pakistan's military as it supposedly 'fights' the Taliban, where you get to shoot at empty houses and abandoned hills!

Or better yet, taking control of the Taliban or Mujahadeen or Iraqi insurgents and driving the Americans and their corporations right back out!

Maybe a war in Gaza?

Clearly 'realism' covers a BIT MORE than just Iraq or Afghanistan. I respect where youre coming from, but do you realise how narrow a field of views and situations you are asking for in the name of realism?

Which is a real pity, because not all is as it seems over there

Errrrmmm.... We're fighting Islamist extremist who treat women like dogs, condone the molestation of children & cut people's heads off because they want democracy appose to opression... Oh, & they plant hidden bombs because they're cowards.

I know my sh*t so please let's not go there bacause religion & politics isn't what this forum is about!

Simulating the conditions our troops are currently fighting a war in can only be as real as it gets, or will we have to keep on fighting the Russians, Germans & Vietnamese forever because of bureauacracy :j:

[dm 9]

or will we have to keep on fighting the Russians, Germans & Vietnamese

So you're saying that because its in the past, fighting the Russians, Germans & Vietnamese is somehow less realistic?

[dmakatra 1]

He also seem to think that it's less realistic if it doesn't simulate the conditions of 'our troops'.

Before you spew that imperialistic view of yours, you might want to consider there are other nationalities present on this discussion forum.

[Aeneas2020 10]

Oh dear god this thread is going to descend into yet another flame war about the various middle eastern conflicts, religion and who is right and wrong... *sigh*

The hubris of man will be man's undoing if you ask me. So let me just say again...there are several mods, maps, missions, addons etc out there which allow you to get exactly what you are looking for. Please go visit armaholic or the like and download them and please let this thread die. Because at the end of the day everybody "Know their sh*t" as you put it and there is no way to verify anything anyone says on this forum as being the truth so please don't start down that road. Also please note you write an entire paragraph declaring your personal opinion on why the various factions are fighting over there, then declare it to be fact by saying you know your sh*t and then finally tell people that they shouldn't be talking about religion or politics which is exactly what you have just done. I spent the better half of three years studying islamic culture and history, why is none of your concern, and I am not and never will be a muslim (and I am most certainly not an islamic sympathizer) however your views are narrow in the extreme. I was willing to show you all the support in the world as is evidenced by my earlier posts but you need to climb down of your high horse. If you really wanted to do this you can either download the various mods or dedicate yourself to making one yourself. There is a plethora of information out there on the subject and BIS making their games easily moddable so instead of this constant whining just get on with it.

Having said that did you know that I am actually not a real person at all but an amalgamation of poorly coded AI's created by drunk linux coders in their spare time? Go ahead prove me wrong.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Aeneas2020

[Schancky 10]

Infiltrator_2K check your PMs

[infiltrator_2k 29]

So you're saying that because its in the past, fighting the Russians, Germans & Vietnamese is somehow less realistic?

Absolutely not! ARMA 2 only has one game engine & the Modders are equally talented whether they are working on a WWII MOD or a Afghan MOD, however, a MOD based on today's conflicts i.e.. Afghanistan, may give a gamer a more realistic atmosphere if they're accutely aware of the conditions that the troops are fighting in - more so if they're themselves are serving or ex-serving military personnel.

[MadPro119 10]

Guys, when he said realistic he meant a replication of todays current status in war, what is currently real. You guys should get that and stop pounding on him. He would just like to discuss the idea of a mod of this. So jesus, leave him alone.

[Schancky 10]

Guys, when he said realistic he meant a replication of todays current status in war, what is currently real. You guys should get that and stop pounding on him. He would just like to discuss the idea of a mod of this. So jesus, leave him alone.

Ditto

[Jonescrusher 10]

Modern conflict for the west is not a location, it is all related to insurgency and asymmetrical warfare. Afghanstan and Iraq get the media, but the organizations that the west are fighting are located all over the globe. With an insurgency it is the population that is your topography not the terrain. If you want to replicate this in a game you would have to incorparate civilians heavily in to the gameplay mechanics. Aesthetics are minor it is the mechanics that would make it realistics. After all, "the war on terror" is not exlusive to the Middle east.

[irR4tiOn4L 10]

Errrrmmm.... We're fighting Islamist extremist who treat women like dogs, condone the molestation of children & cut people's heads off because they want democracy appose to opression... Oh, & they plant hidden bombs because they're cowards.

I know my sh*t so please let's not go there bacause religion & politics isn't what this forum is about!

Simulating the conditions our troops are currently fighting a war in can only be as real as it gets, or will we have to keep on fighting the Russians, Germans & Vietnamese forever because of bureauacracy :j:

I never said whether the conflict was right or wrong - although that would be a valid question.

What i did say is that whatever 'your troops' are doing is not the definition of realism, nor does it mandate a simulation of that conflict.

The way you carry on its like its someone's 'duty' to simulate Afghanistan and Iraq. Why on earth should that be?

Chernarus's type of conflict is as realistic a conflict as a supposed 'simulation' of Iraq or Afghanistan would be - neither portrays any conflict with many of the most important details, and both types have occured in the past

Guys, when he said realistic he meant a replication of todays current status in war, what is currently real. You guys should get that and stop pounding on him. He would just like to discuss the idea of a mod of this. So jesus, leave him alone.

IF you want a 'realistic' portrayal, you DO NOT start from an assumed perspective. What he wants is exactly that - a portrayal of Iraq/Afghanistan from the perspective of the Western soldiers fighting there.

The problem is of course that larger questions are lost in translation - who are these groups being fought in 'war on terror', what do they want, why are they fighting us and whose cause is 'right'. Theres also plenty of OTHER conflicts that are just as important for their own people - Gaza, Sri Lanka, etc.

Realism =/= British Troop's in Iraq/Afghanistan

As for assymetrical warfare - its been seen before and it will be seen again, and i still fail to see whats interesting about modern armies rooting out an inferior insurgent foe, as against more 'all out' types of conflicts.

By way of example, i would much rather see the SOVIET experience in Afghanistan portrayed, rather than the British or American, more modern, conflicts. What mandates one be pursued and the other ignored? Or Chechnya - these are much harsher, rougher examples of insurgent armies fighting a conventional force.

Absolutely not! ARMA 2 only has one game engine & the Modders are equally talented whether they are working on a WWII MOD or a Afghan MOD, however, a MOD based on today's conflicts i.e.. Afghanistan, may give a gamer a more realistic atmosphere if they're accutely aware of the conditions that the troops are fighting in - more so if they're themselves are serving or ex-serving military personnel.

Okay, ill tone it down and give you better reasons for why i oppose your idea

1) - it will be seen in Arrowhead, there are already mods for it/was seen in Arma 1, and no doubt many other games.

2) - its a relatively low intensity conflict and insurgents do not possess the balance of power in most areas - its not very 'interesting' as a result

3) - it is not the only modern war taking place, and among them, there are more interesting conflicts from the perspective of a combined-arms simulation - Gaza, Chechnya, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan etc

4) - a good game/portrayal requires more than spoon fed ideology from the US/British military, and audiences wont like a portrayal of the Mujahadeen as 'right', even in minor situations. Painting them as 'evil devils' wont exactly do anything much justice, however. The sensitivities with this type of game are extremely high and you are sure to upset some party - hence why Bohemia stick to hypothetical conflicts

5) - Such a conflict is extremely difficult to simulate from a technical perspective, because there are great demands being made of the AI and game assets. You may not be satisfied with the result from the perspective of 'realism', given that you actually fought there

But dont worry, Arrowhead will bring something very similar to what you are looking for - and 'real' mods of actual Iraq/Afghanistan battles will surely follow - you will get what you want, but i think you ought to broaden your horizons about the kind of situations youd like to see simulated

Edited December 31, 2009 by irR4tiOn4L

[Daniel 0]

but i think you ought to broaden your horizons about the kind of situations youd like to see simulated

Bingo.

Simulating British forces in action in Helmand is possible, but you have to make certain compromises in both gameplay and realism. It's mostly down to how well made the mission is. And then there's the smaller details such as making a convincing recreation of Helmand, and making British and enemy equipment.

[magmus 10]

I not being a moron, just like to say that all of you are being a bit childish, get it done work in a team not "do it yourself" or sarcasm like in the second post.

[Defunkt 431]

Dude, not a single one of the people of who makes mods is short of ideas of their own, that's why they learned how, what they are short of is hours in the day. This forum would quickly become a total waste of time if everybody with a bright "somebody should make..." idea were permitted to start their own new thread for each one, especially ideas as obvious and generic as this one. Normally these are closed pretty quick and I cannot for the life of me see why this one hasn't been already. Your options are make it yourself or wait until somebody who can decides for themselves that this (whatever this is) is something they would like to make.

[TheCrusader 10]

Oh, & they plant hidden bombs because they're cowards.

[offtopic]

Last time I checked, dropping 500lbs bombs from 16k feet onto enemies with no appreciable air defense isn't exactly the definition of heroics either.

[/offtopic]

Ontopic:

As other have said, OA will most likely enable us to play in this scenario, with the correct weapon systems etc.

[infiltrator_2k 29]

I've got to tell you, there's a hell of a lot of ignorant people posting on this thread. Discussing an Afghan MOD seems to put a lot of people's backs up, & their comments reflect this. If you appose the war in Afghanistan for whatever reason that's fine, but as I earlier mentioned let's leave politics & religion out of this forum.

Anyone who knows the situation in Afghanistan will know British troops aren't fighting the Afghan people, but the Taliban; radicalized foreigners with extremist views from neighbouring countries; Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen etc.. who sneak into Afghanistan & kill UK troops & Afghans, hence why the militias are now fighting the Taliban a long side British troops. These were incidently militias who were originally were fighting UK soldiers.

Every day these militias are risking their lives fighting the Taliban & clearing IEDs for the British troops because they know they are helping the Afghan people as well as preventing their country becoming a terrorist training ground. The overwhelming majority of Afghans want rid of the Taliban because the want to be free from oppression, that's a fact.

Anyone who doesn't support what the British are doing in Afghanistan can't care much for the Afghan people.

When I spoke about creating a "Realistic" MOD for Afghanistan I mean exactly that, i.e. missions where you win hearts & minds by conversing with Afghan elders, avoiding civilian casualties in densely populated combat zones/bombing raids, clearing IEDs, preventing suicide bombers reaching their intended targets, escorting/protecting humanitarian aid convoys, flying wounded Afghan soldiers/civilians to makeshift military hospitals, fighting longside militias, etc..ect..ect..

I may have to request this thread to be closed, all because of some people's ignorance & themselves being narrow minded :o It's a shame because it could have inspired modders to create something very special, very different & very "realistic".

[Daniel 0]

It's a public forum, you're going to get opinions from all walks of life and all across the globe, you've got to accept that when you post here. And you're not going to inspire anyone simply by bringing ideas to the table. If it's realistic missions you want, the best place to start is either the Editing Boards here, or somewhere like OFPEC.

Hell, i'd be all for this sort of scenario, and i'm all for the mission in Afghanistan (or would be if we the British public were given a clear outline of the strategy, but that's another topic).

But you can't keep telling us your views, and then telling us to keep politics out of it. It just comes across as trolling.

Basically, you're not doing yourself any favours.

If you really want this to happen, forget about the mod aspect and put a demonstration mission together. If you're having problems, again, look to somewhere like OFPEC, there's a wealth of knowledge and helpful people there. Then, if your mission generates some interest, you might start putting a team together. But it's no good simply suggesting this mod and that mod should be made, as you've seen by the reaction in this thread.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Daniel