Please BIS

[Bouben 3]

Please BIS, would you now finally concentrate on fixing the crucial "feature" that you can't hide from an enemy, when you are already spotted just for one time?

It is really incredibly annoying.

Thank you and have a good time.

EDIT: and please, don't want a repro mission from me. You must know, what is in your AI code. If it is included, or not. No offence. This is not a sometimes happening bug, this is a rule.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Bouben

[Gohtraw 10]

no. thanks.

[Simon C 0]

You can hide from them. The reason they're still hunting you is because they are smart enough to work out where you're going to go. They can hear you, and will keep firing at where they last saw you to keep you pinned. If you do manage to break contact successfully, they will lose you, but they will be more aware afterwards and will try and hunt you down. :)

[Bouben 3]

You can hide from them. The reason they're still hunting you is because they are smart enough to work out where you're going to go. They can hear you, and will keep firing at where they last saw you to keep you pinned. If you do manage to break contact successfully, they will lose you, but they will be more aware afterwards and will try and hunt you down. :)

False. This is the ideal condition, which never happens. Once you are spotted, they will see you THROUGH a grass, even crawling, and therefore, you can't change your position without being spotted and tracked EXACTLY. Once they've spotted you, you are pinpointed (not just roughly estimated, simply exactly pinpointed) and your stealth abilities are counted no more. This have nothing to do with their intelligence. This is a pure artificial cheating. They can't see through rocks, buildings etc. but they will never lost your track.

I test this "feature" carefully, so I know, that your claim is unfortunately not truth.

You can sneak up an enemy, if you're never noticed before, but once you are then you have no chance to hide.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Bouben

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

but once you are then you have no chance to hide.

and they can not hide from me, so why should you be able to?

[snkman 351]

After enemy A.I. had spotted a player they will have a knowledge value more then 0.1 ( depending on how long and in which distance they had seen the player ) about the spotted player for more then 3 - 5 minutes. After 3 - 5 min. and not spotting the detected player again the knowledge will be set to 0.

[Bouben 3]

After enemy A.I. had spotted a player they will have a knowledge value more then 0.1 ( depending on how long and in which distance they had seen the player ) about the spotted player for more then 3 - 5 minutes. After 3 - 5 min. and not spotting the detected player again the knowledge will be set to 0.

That's right. No matter what you do within those 3 - 5 minutes, they know about you. Moreover, grass is not counted in AI's LOS in this situation so you are completely fixed on object as a bushes, rocks, houses and so on. Therefore there is no way, how to change your position, because once you leave your cover (it means rocks, bushes, houses, walls) and try to be hidden by grass, you fail no matter what. So you defacto wait till enemy comes to your fixed hiding place. There you go, guys.

So...I think this should be solved quite well by giving grass some abillity to hide objects (i mean soldiers) from AI's LOS.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Bouben

[tcp 10]

Knowledge just means they count your last know position as accurate. If you ran behind a hill and flanked them, they wouldn't know until they heard or saw you again.

[Defunkt 431]

No matter what you do within those 3 - 5 minutes, they know about you.

What are you proposing? That they should just magically forget they ever saw you?

[Bouben 3]

What are you proposing? That they should just magically forget they ever saw you?

You totally dont get it. Sorry. Just read it couple more times and then write. Thanks.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

Knowledge just means they count your last know position as accurate. If you ran behind a hill and flanked them, they wouldn't know until they heard or saw you again.

That's right! And it is functional with objects such as rocks, buildings, bushes, trees and so on. But it is not functional with grass clutter and that is the problem. In reality, you have a possibility to hide in grass and change position, but in ARMA2 you don't have such a possibility. Because grass is not counted as a object, which blocks AI's LOS, so you can't actually hide in grass. AI still see you as if nothing were standing in their LOS. I've made many tests with grass and then with objects such as bushes, buildings and so on, and AI were really NOT able to track me when I used only objects for cover. That's good. But once I tried to sneak out of battle crawling 500 m from them in tall grass (absolutely no chance to see me in reality) they spotted me.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Bouben

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

In real life, if someone was there, then suddenly dove down into the grass. I wouldn't just go "wow he vanished". and continue about my merry way.

The thing is to use cover and not rely on grass to be the magic pill to hiding from the enemy otherwise, you would always have cover just by ducking down into grass. You shouldn't be out in the open any way, grass or no grass. If you're silly enough to be out in the open without real cover within 3-5 paces, you deserve to get mowed down.

Edited December 25, 2009 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[Deadfast 43]

You totally dont get it. Sorry. Just read it couple more times and then write. Thanks.

Maybe if you decided to call your topic a bit better than "Please BIS" such situations wouldn't happen?

I was successful at evading AI when detected. Of course you can't just dive down and pretend not to be there. Even if the AI doesn't see you they will engage your last known position.

[victim913 10]

What they do when they spot you is the same thing as you spotting them. When you are in first person you drop down in the grass and YOU don't see them, but you can switch to 3rd person and you can still see them. What they do is no different. Yet i have been able to crawl away with them shooting at where i was many times.

What else they do, which is really cool coding, they predict where you are going based on what is going on. Try being in a squad without being the leader. The leader gives you a target in a red circle. That thing goes all over the place. If your target is walking then goes behind a wall, the red target keeps moving as if we still see them. It's tracking where they are predicted to be. If you stop behind the wall, the red target keeps going, then when the target comes out from behind the wall and no one is with it, the target moves back to the last known spot.

Now go into the forest and that target jumps all over the place with a moving target (you) as it tries to keep predicting where you are going. Then if you make noise or fire or whatever the target goes to the noise.

They are smart, It is a simulator. It thinks. The AI is designed to be as close to reality as possible. If you are prone in real life, you would be able to lift your head a bit, in the game you really can't so 3rd person kind of gives you that extra piece of reality that you can't because the limited animation. I'm sure the AI has a little flexibility that way too. Especially when adding more difficulty. Next year the AI will be smarter and start duplicating itself to be smarter than that, then it will change it's name to skynet. And it will start thinking for itself and become self aware. Then the year after that it will cause Judgement day nuking everyone then build terminators to destroy you. Then it WILL see you through the walls:eek:

Oh wait that part might be from a movie sorry.

[Zeron 10]

I dont know. Once we tried to ambush a T-72. Blowed up a satchel charge on a road, we were in cover in the woods, elevated position. The T-72 didnt come to investigate, it came straight for us ;)

[Bouben 3]

I dont know. Once we tried to ambush a T-72. Blowed up a satchel charge on a road, we were in cover in the woods, elevated position. The T-72 didnt come to investigate, it came straight for us ;)

Thats absolutely right! And that is the whole point god damn it!

Are you other guys so ****ing stupid that you dont get it??? Jesus christ you ARMA defenders. I dont like you. You have obviously no problem with skipping the whole thread just to start bitching about realism and giving totally exaggerated and nonsense examples. Try to think a little before you start write something! WHAT AI DOES IS A BUG, IT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH REALITY AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED. End of story. End of this comedy.

Sorry admins, but my nerves...

Edited December 26, 2009 by Bouben

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

You need to step back and rethink your approach to this discussion before you find yourself on the outside looking in...;)

Edited December 26, 2009 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[maddogx 13]

Are you other guys so ****ing stupid that you dont get it??? Jesus christ you ARMA defenders. I dont like you. You have obviously no problem with skipping the whole thread just to start bitching about realism and giving totally exaggerated and nonsense examples. Try to think a little before you start write something! WHAT AI DOES IS A BUG, IT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH REALITY AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED. End of story. End of this comedy.

Insults, a caps lock sentence, and finally a declaration of "end of story". What's wrong, can't you handle it when people disagree with you? Or are you really just eight years old? In either case: grow up. Your attitude is not helping your case at all.

Anyway, despite my better judgement, I decided to take the time to whip up a nice repro script so we can check out your claims. See the file linked at the end of my post. The mission gives you visual feedback of the AIs knowledge of your position, directly from the nearTargets command. Try it out.

Once you have gained the AIs attention, you should see a white smoke particle surrounded by a red ring. This is the area where the AI actually thinks you are. After some testing with this, it is pretty clear to me that the AI does not have any kind of magical knowledge of the players location.

Repro mission download

[rellikki 7]

Like everyone's been saying, it is realistic that the AI is more aware of you when you've been in contact with them. And it's definately not nonsense. I'm sure you would be more aware of the threat too when you've been in contact with it and would be able to pinpoint it easier. But the AI doesn't cheat - You can still hide away from them, even when you've been in contact with them once.

Anyway, if you start a new thread, please make sure your thread title explains what you want without forcing people to read through your post first. Thread titles such as yours are anything but descriptive. We do not allow these kind of titles and threads with such titles are subject to be closed. Moreover, the ranting in your last post, Bouben, was unnecessary.

Thread closed.