M4a1 & car-15

[DeathShrimp 0]

I've always wondered what the difference was between the M4A1 Carbine and the CAR-15...

Are they just different versions of essentially the same gun that have been developed by different companies (eg. Colt and Armalite)? I also have a sneaking suspicion that the CAR-15 may be a version marketed for civilians - if this is true (which it probably isn't), why do a number of forces choose this over the M4A1?

Cheers

[Wobble 1]

Well I have an AR-15.. I think SWAT uses the CAR-15.. I think its full auto..

let me check, brb

[Wobble 1]

here ya go

During the Vietnam war the US army recognised the need for a carbine assault rifle as the M16's were sometimes too large in the thick Vietnamese jungle. There first effort was the CAR 15, unfortunately though its short barrel was not suited to firing rifle rounds and caused the rifle to make a very loud noise and large recoil, the flash suppressor was also inadequate making it unsuitable for night operations. The CAR 15 was generally unpopular with the soldiers.

Faced with the problems with the CAR 15's, Colt tried several modifications and introduced Model 629(military designation XM177E2). Its unique functional flash suppressor and retractable stock made it an ideal assault carbine. They were mainly issued to the special forces and the ranking officers.

[DeathShrimp 0]

Ah k, so the XM177E2 is an improved version of the CAR-15...

I have read in a few places that modern special forces use the CAR-15, so perhaps they simply mean the XM177E2, but say CAR-15 cos it's the original...maybe

It also appears like the M4A1 has a thicker foregrip than the CAR-15, but perhaps the pictures were mislabelled (and the foregrip thickness is up to the discretion of the user)...

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

There was this one carbine used in Vietnam, I thought it was a CAR-15, but it might have been something else, it shot 7.6 mm ammo (or something like that), not the ole 5.56 NATO. It sorta looked like a COLT/ARMALITE type thing...anyone know which one I mean? YOu can use it in Seal Team

[Damage Inc 0]

Test them by shooting yourself with both of them.

[DeathShrimp 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">YOu can use it in Seal Team<span id='postcolor'>

LOL I remember that game ...in fact I think it's lying around here somewhere...

Are you talking about the Stoner 63 5.56mm?

Although this picture is really the full-size version...

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DeathShrimp @ April 04 2002,21:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ah k, so the XM177E2 is an improved version of the CAR-15...

I have read in a few places that modern special forces use the CAR-15, so perhaps they simply mean the XM177E2, but say CAR-15 cos it's the original...maybe

It also appears like the M4A1 has a thicker foregrip than the CAR-15, but perhaps the pictures were mislabelled (and the foregrip thickness is up to the discretion of the user)...<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, the M4 has a different handguard. It's thicker, and oval instead of round.

The M4 also has a different twist rate than the early CARs, a collapsible stock with multiple stops instead of a simple collapsed/extended choice, two cuts near the breech to help with the reliable feeding of softpoint and hollowpoint ammunition, a different barrel profile to help mount a M-203 grenade launcher, and a removeable carry handle on a Picatinny rail which makes it easy to mount accessories such as sights.

[USSoldier11B 0]

FYI: The M-16 type action and gas system was originally designed by Stoner.

[LordZach 0]

a swat team with an assault rifle? you must live in montana or texas or something. here everyone uses MP-5s and 9mm pistols so if they get a few shots off no biggy.

[scout 0]

the use of arms depend on the mission solely

[Major Fubar 0]

CAR-15

M4A1

XM177E2

Don't know if these are of any help. There are so many variations of the AR-18/M-16 it's hard to keep track...

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ April 05 2002,18:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a swat team with an assault rifle?  you must live in montana or texas or something.  here everyone uses MP-5s and 9mm pistols so if they get a few shots off no biggy.<span id='postcolor'>

In the city where I live, quite a few LEOs have both a shotgun and an AR-15 in their patrol cars.

I'm not sure if they are restricted to officers above a certain grade or by training or both, but I had a little chat with some of them last year when a mentally unstable homeless guy with a kitchen knife threatened me, and all three patrol cars that responded had rifles.

[Mister Frag 0]

6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ April 05 2002,196)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">CAR-15

<Snip><span id='postcolor'>

Major Fubar, I don't think that's a CAR-15.

The lower receiver shown in the picture has the raised magazine release guards, which are supposed to prevent accidental releases of the magazine, and this was a feature introduced with the M16A2 variant in 1982. It would not have been available on a rifle used during the Vietnam War.

The sights and carry handle are also not the ones that would have been found on a Vietnam-era upper receiver. Finally, the SureFire M500 handguard/light combo is also non-standard.

[SpetsnazWarriorX 0]

So, like, someone pleez tell me what the difference is between the M4A1 and the XM177E2. Also, I've noticed that the M4A1 has multiple names? i.e. M4A1, XM177E1 (prototype name??)

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SpetsnazWarriorX @ April 06 2002,08:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So, like, someone pleez tell me what the difference is between the M4A1 and the XM177E2. Also, I've noticed that the M4A1 has multiple names? i.e. M4A1, XM177E1 (prototype name??)  <span id='postcolor'>

Take a look at this page, it should answer most if not all of your questions.

http://mwilson.hypermart.net/views/guns/m16.html

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a swat team with an assault rifle? you must live in montana or texas or something. here everyone uses MP-5s and 9mm pistols so if they get a few shots off no biggy. <span id='postcolor'>

9mm has become hugely unpopular in the U.S. Most LE Agencies have swithed to the .40 S&W. The most common duty pistol is the Glock 22. Most carry an assortment of CAR-15's and MP-5's. If the suspect is wearing body armor they would opt for an assault rifle. Police in the U.S. shoot to "stop" not to kill, because of law suits. So, head shots are rarely taken on purpose.

[LordZach 0]

CAR-15

yahoo search

[barret 0]

To tell you the deal now, the Car 15 is an SMG (you can find this at the Colt site) and the M4a1 is a Caribine. And smg (for you gun noobs) is a gun which quickly dispersses its rounds with little accuracy. These rounds are Pistol rounds. The largest come to around .45, and the smaller ones are around 9mm (i think i mixed those two up). A carabine is essentialy an assualt rifle with a shorten barrel. It's short because the middle part of the gun takes the hot streaming gasses when the gun is fired, and uses those gases to push up the next round.

Hope this helped (if you read it)

[scout 0]

i really dont know the difference between the two, but my car-15 shoots regular 0.22 ammo.

i know the 9 mm kind cause thats what our CT groups use.

[drewb99 0]

CAR-15 fires in semi automatic only, M4 fires in full auto. That's about the biggest difference between the two.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 06 2002,22:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To tell you the deal now, the Car 15 is an SMG (you can find this at the Colt site) and the M4a1 is a Caribine. And smg (for you gun noobs) is a gun which quickly dispersses its rounds  with  little accuracy. These rounds are Pistol rounds. The largest come to around .45, and the smaller ones are  around 9mm (i think i mixed those two up). A carabine is essentialy an assualt rifle with a shorten barrel. It's short because  the middle part of the gun  takes the hot streaming gasses when the gun is fired, and uses those gases to  push up the next round.

Hope this helped (if you read it) <span id='postcolor'>

There are several rifles commonly referred to as the CAR, but the original Colt CAR-15 was a shortened version of the M16 assault rifle, still chambered in .223/5.56.

There are Colts chambered in 9mm, and while they are SMGs, they aren't called CARs.

SMG are not inaccurate. They are in fact commonly more accurate than most semiautomatic handguns chambered for the same round. This is due to the longer barrel and higher muzzle velocity. If a SMG operator doesn't hit what he is aiming at, the problem is insufficient training.

There isn't a rifle or SMG in the world that uses bled-off propellant gases to push rounds into the action. Firearms that are gas operated use the gases to unlock the bolt and push back the bolt and carrier, which during the return motion forward will strip a round from the magazine and chamber it. The rounds are pushed up by the magazine spring.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 05 2002,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ April 05 2002,18:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a swat team with an assault rifle?  you must live in montana or texas or something.  here everyone uses MP-5s and 9mm pistols so if they get a few shots off no biggy.<span id='postcolor'>

In the city where I live, quite a few LEOs have both a shotgun and an AR-15 in their patrol cars.

I'm not sure if they are restricted to officers above a certain grade or by training or both, but I had a little chat with some of them last year when a mentally unstable homeless guy with a kitchen knife threatened me, and all three patrol cars that responded had rifles.<span id='postcolor'>

after we had the infamous North Hollywood shootout a few years ago LAPD and San Fernando County Officers does carry assault rifle, but not all of them. usually, shotguns are added to patrol unit, but not all of them(but more common then assualt rifles).

if this kind of situation arises, usually SWAT is called. and I have no idea what SWATS use as weapons. I've seen MP5, M4, M16.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ April 06 2002,09:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a swat team with an assault rifle?  you must live in montana or texas or something.  here everyone uses MP-5s and 9mm pistols so if they get a few shots off no biggy. <span id='postcolor'>

9mm has become hugely unpopular in the U.S. Most LE Agencies have swithed to the .40 S&W. The most common duty pistol is the Glock 22. Most carry an assortment of CAR-15's and MP-5's. If the suspect is wearing body armor they would opt for an assault rifle. Police in the U.S. shoot to "stop" not to kill, because of law suits. So, head shots are rarely taken on purpose.<span id='postcolor'>

hhmm...that's kinda new news to me....AFAIK, there are officers who still uses 9mm(Barrettas). But that's some old(?)officers. I've also seen officers with Glock. I just don't bother asking them about guns.

But i also won't be surprised at shift to .40 caliber. In early 90s there were very good reviews about that caliber, so i won't be surprised.

and to be more precise, US LE officers donot shoot until they have no other choice. In US, if a suspect goes on highspeed chase and ends up stopping the car, police draw the gun, but wait as long as they can, as long as the suspect doesn't fire or threaten officer's life.

heck...these officers chase the suspect and tackle them down when they run away! if i had choice, i'd rather fire one round into the ground to warn him to stop....not with US officers...they seldom use their guns. but thanx to Hollywood, every ppl who are not in US or has been think US cops are trigger-happy.

even former NYPD chief never fired a single round on duty during his entire police service!

[Mister Frag 0]

I believe the LAPD restricts rifles to Sergeants and above and requires qualification with the weapon, the typical patrol officer does not have access to one.

And regarding the idea of a warning shot, that is utterly irresponsible. You are either justified in discharging your weapon or you aren't, and any and all shots fired are your responsibility, regardless of where they wind up.