Mid east

[nordin dk 0]

Is it all about Jerusalem, or has Jerusalem just become the ultimate symbol for both parties in the war?

Is it a religious war in essence?

Look a palestinian flag, what will happen now

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I only trust my mom!

Anyway. I start getting anoyed by those revenge-ist discussions. I know that from my ex-girlfriend: "but you, but you, but you...." and it starts to piss me off (ooppss)  

What do we discuss now? BBC vs CNN? Well maybe you should question not only them but the news-agencies such as Reuters that contribute major information. Those are now in a miserable situation. If they dont collect information they dont sell. Now if Israel doesnt allow them to enter palestine well then they have to make stories (some might be accurate though) to survive! Bad luck! But who is to blame? Well as long as the press is not able to enter and report I dont believe any Israelian argument.

Especially not the revenge-style: "But you in Germany...!"

What about us? We live in peace right now... C'est tout qu'il faut dire!  

the palestinian flag is a stupid provokation!!!

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ April 07 2002,17:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> the palestinian flag is a stupid provokation!!!   <span id='postcolor'>

Its no more provoking then any of the other national flags in the Forum.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

? HOW ?

[nordin dk 0]

How what?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

-double posted- I cut it out

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

how rude...you edited your comment! You said...well you know yourself what you said!

Anyway, i dont think he is a palestinian! Wanna bet!

The winner gets a spam-thread for free!

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aeon @ April 07 2002,18:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">so you like media ?

I don't trust CNN and the other, I read only : www.indymedia.org

BTW, watch the IDF propaganda practice :

http://www.indymedia.org.il/imc....d=16989<span id='postcolor'>

Yep, this was much discussed several weeks ago, when they pics first came out. It was pointed out first on this forum from an article from Der Spiegel, which also called them inconclusive, as did most of the major press world-wide. Can you figure out why? I guessed it right the first time back then.

Wanna try lighting another little fire? Go ahead.

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Julember 41st, 2010)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">how rude...you edited your comment! You said...well you know yourself what you said!

<span id='postcolor'>

Oh, you meant, how would I go check?

I looked at his profile, and it didn't say anything about his location, so I deleted that part from my post that read

"...unless he's not palestinian, which I will go check"

Didn't mean to confuse or mislead...

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Oh yeah, great source of information indeed! Highly trustworthy! I wonder why those pictures havent been published elsewhere? hmmm! Ah, I forgot, the great INDIMEDIA has of course more financial power than little CNN and NBC and BBC to purchase exclusive rights for amateur pictures. INDIMEDIA the new star in the sky of trustworthy journalism.

Bwaaaaahahahaha

[nordin dk 0]

What did the Spiegel article say Avon?

[Damage Inc 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ April 07 2002,18:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyway, i dont think he is a palestinian! Wanna bet!

The winner gets a spam-thread for free! <span id='postcolor'>

He's not.

Now gimme my spam thread.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ April 07 2002,19:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What did the Spiegel article say Avon?<span id='postcolor'>

Der Spiegel showed 6 or 8 of roughly a dozen still pictures taken from a camcorder.

What I assumed then seems to have been true:

1. The terrorist (that's what I called people with explosive belts strapped to themselves) was NOT handcuffed. Look carefully.

2. The full video was never released, not to ABC or BBC or CCCP or the KKK. It just never followed. In fact, other than those extracted stills, I don't believe any strip of contiguous video was ever released - not even half a minute's worth.

The case was investigated by the Israeli Attorney General, who has no qualms about digging up dirt against anything that will make Sharon look worse. The charges were totally dismissed in this case, agreeing with the police claim that they were in danger of their lives, as there was oibviously a struggle to attempt to detonate the explosive belt.

In contrast, the story died out with a bang worldwide within a day or two.

I tried searching for the thread but, as some of you know, the search option here on the forum is bugged. Sorry.

[nordin dk 0]

So basically:

Someone claimed he was innocently killed, someone claim he was about to detonate a bomb and they killed him because of that...

...we will never know.

Even if and when someone tells the truth, the opposing side will dismiss it quicker than a fly can fart, and that's another sad aspect of war.

[Stelled Eagle 2]

<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>The Friendly Place</span>

for the people, by the people, errm and that other one

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ April 07 2002,19:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... the opposing side will dismiss it quicker than a fly can fart, and ...<span id='postcolor'>

Nice imagery there! I guess your teacher never liked you analysing Shakespeare, cause he was afraid you state one of those nice pictures in class.

I dont like how some people abuse the status of a journalist. Here in Germany (switzerland, holland, Denmark wherever). A journalist still feels somehow comitted to his profession. A journalist understand his duty similar to that of a judge: the obligation not abuse ones power.

But like everything that contains great potential of power it attracts the wrong people. It is ashame how journalism is abused as a propaganda weapon. I therefore think that it is very important that our children get a good deep education, especially in literature, where you learn to analyse rethorical devices and the abusive power of words. And of course a good general knowledge so they are able to filter information and judge themselves. I think that especially in the Arab world (not refering to Israel or Palestine) many people are somewhat closed-minded.

( am I ready to be a good family-father or what?? )

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Doc. Albert @ just before...around 19:30 I guess...)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nice imagery there! I guess your teacher never liked you analysing Shakespeare, cause he was afraid you state one of those nice pictures in class.

<span id='postcolor'>

Sadly, none of my teachers in primary school or highschool or at the conservatory ever asked me to analyse shakespeare.

Journalist integrety was lost in Denmark decades ago. Do you guys still have it? Impressive...

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nobby @ April 07 2002,19:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>The Friendly Place</span>

for the people, by the people, errm and that other one<span id='postcolor'>

*troll*

---------

44 pages? Whoa.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ April 07 2002,20:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So basically:

Someone claimed he was innocently killed<span id='postcolor'>

Well, no one seemed to deny that the guy was wearing an explosive belt. Even the pictures show the robot and some sort of heavy belt/vest.

What the Arab sites claimed was that he was murdered in cold blood because he was handcuffed. He wasn't.

[ACEJim 0]

No but his hands were bound with those plastic ties, which is pretty similar to handcuffing someone.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ACEJim @ April 07 2002,21:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No but his hands were bound with those plastic ties, which is pretty similar to handcuffing someone.<span id='postcolor'>

Hands tied with pastic ties are tight together, wrists right next to eachother.

Picture 5 in the series on the site linked to above shows the hands as close together as tehy can be seen in any of the pics.

Wrongo. Try again.

[Placebo 29]

This thread has turned into utter lameness, I really can't see any point in it remaining open, can anyone else?

[Pukko 0]

I have been reading most of this thread during the last days, interested in expanding my little knowledge in the conflict; not posting since I did not have anything to contribute with.

Anyway, back on page page 30 of this thread RedRogue posted a letter written by a "refusenic" (Israeli reserv, refusing to serve in occupied territory). I read the letter and also went ot the "refusalnicks" website spending hours reading.

Now I wonder why there is no discussion about this letter and website content, which looks like a good information source to me. Not the least since some of them write how they personally have participated in slaughters of palestinians, to add to these 6 pictures being dicussed here. To me personally most thing written there seems most reliable for a number of reasons. What do you think?

Here is another interesting quote from there

"Over time it has become clear that the distinction between the two forms of rule is not necessarily territorial. A significant number of residents from the territory under the authority of an elected parliament moved into the areas under military rule—the West Bank and Gaza Strip. And miracle of miracles, those residents continued to preserve their right to elect and be elected as well as other rights—for example freedom of expression and freedom to organize—which were kept from the older residents. This is how two groups came to be in the areas under military rule—Jews, who enjoyed full civil rights, and in contrast, Palestinian Arabs (upon whose confiscated land the new residents settled), who were denied all civil rights, including the right to immigrate to the civil part of the state. At the schools of those with rights they continued to teach that discrimination on the basis of racial, ethnic, national or religious background is a horrible thing against which human beings must struggle. In that context many hours were devoted to studying the racism that was aimed at the Jews in Europe, yet no classes were devoted to discuss the condition of the non-citizens of the state, residents of the West Bank and Gaza Strip."

Any comments to the letter and website content?

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ April 07 2002,20:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This thread has turned into utter lameness, I really can't see any point in it remaining open, can anyone else?<span id='postcolor'>

I'd like to see the debate continue as the current conflict developes. If you close it down, and the need arises tomorrow or the day after for more debate, then any thread subsequently opened will probably be closed with a "did that already" remark.

I still see many interesting prospects for this thread.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pukko @ April 07 2002,21:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now I wonder why there is no discussion about this letter and website content, which looks like a good information source to me. Not the least since some of them write how they personally have participated in slaughters of palestinians,<span id='postcolor'>

Where? What's the link? I'll be more than happy to press charges against them if they really did.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">to add to these 6 pictures being dicussed here.<span id='postcolor'>

So you don't fall for my ploy that the guy had an explosive belt on, attempted to trigger it and was shot in the attempt. Ho hum. So be it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here is another interesting quote from there

"Over time it has become clear that the distinction between the two forms of rule is not necessarily territorial. A significant number of residents from the territory under the authority of an elected parliament moved into the areas under military rule—the West Bank and Gaza Strip. And miracle of miracles, those residents continued to preserve their right to elect and be elected as well as other rights—for example freedom of expression and freedom to organize—which were kept from the older residents. This is how two groups came to be in the areas under military rule—Jews, who enjoyed full civil rights, and in contrast, Palestinian Arabs (upon whose confiscated land the new residents settled), who were denied all civil rights, including the right to immigrate to the civil part of the state. At the schools of those with rights they continued to teach that discrimination on the basis of racial, ethnic, national or religious background is a horrible thing against which human beings must struggle. In that context many hours were devoted to studying the racism that was aimed at the Jews in Europe, yet no classes were devoted to discuss the condition of the non-citizens of the state, residents of the West Bank and Gaza Strip."

Any comments to the letter and website content?<span id='postcolor'>

I must continue this tomorrow maybe but I'll start with saying that Israel itself, under international pressure and the Arabs themselves did not allow Israeli law to be imposed in Judea, Samaria and Gaza after the six day war. That is the start of the quagmire of different rights for different folks in these areas.

History is so dull!

More tomorrow, if I can.