Mid east

[Longinius 1]

""Surely it is time that our national broadcasters, not just, but including the BBC, stopped describing Hamas and Jihad with such euphemisms as radical and militant. Let us call things what they are: they are terrorist organizations... Such fudging of what Hamas or Islamic Jihad are confers some sort of legitimacy on people who are terrorists.""

Well, that says more about mr Smiths standpoint than BBC's. And since when is mr Smith the man who defines terrorism and newsreporting anyway?

For general information there is a Swedish women trapped in Betlehem who keeps contact with International Press. We will probably not get news from here for very much longer though. Much of her reports are recieved through cell phone communication and according to here IDF soldiers confiscate / destroy cellphones as they find them.

She also tells of people bleeding to death in the streets because ambulances are denied entry. Those that try to get in are fired upon. We all know that the Israelies believe / know some ambulances carry weapons and explosives. But I wonder, why can't the Israelis go in and bring out the wounded? Isnt it there responsibility aswell to help wounded Palestinian civilians?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 07 2002,15:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, that says more about mr Smiths standpoint than BBC's.<span id='postcolor'>

Which says everything about your standpoint.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And since when is mr Smith the man who defines terrorism and newsreporting anyway?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes. What a silly amateur he must be, unlike a professional like you.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For general information there is a Swedish women trapped in Betlehem who keeps contact with International Press. We will probably not get news from here for very much longer though. Much of her reports are recieved through cell phone communication and according to here IDF soldiers confiscate / destroy cellphones as they find them.<span id='postcolor'>

Duh!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">She also tells of people bleeding to death in the streets because ambulances are denied entry. Those that try to get in are fired upon.<span id='postcolor'>

Ah yes! The ambulances again!

http://www.honestreporting.com/Critiques/2002/27_ambulance.asp

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We all know that the Israelies believe / know some ambulances carry weapons and explosives.<span id='postcolor'>

More accurately, we know, you don't believe.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But I wonder, why can't the Israelis go in and bring out the wounded? Isnt it there responsibility aswell to help wounded Palestinian civilians?<span id='postcolor'>

More things the press doesn't tell you:

"Accusing the IDF of Violating Ambulances & Hospitals:

Case #6:

The Palestinians: The Palestinian Authority accused the IDF of carrying out a massacre in the Ramallah hospital.

The facts: This is an absolute falsehood.

On 31 March 2002, following the receipt of reliable intelligence concerning the whereabouts of a large number of wanted suspects hiding in Ramallah hospitals, IDF forces entered the city's hospitals. This was done in order to carry out searches and verify the identities of those people in the hospitals. The IDF soldiers carried out their missions in a manner respectful to those in the medical facilities and withdrew.

The IDF Spokesperson has strenuously denied false Palestinian claims concerning a massacre or mass murder in the Palestinian hospitals. This is another example of the baseless incitement fomented by the Palestinian Authority against the State of Israel and the IDF."

Source: http://www.idf.il/english/news/lies.stm

[Guest]

Well, of course. A Tory party leader has no aganda of his own...

You have to admit that the British are less interested in the conflict then that the Jews and Palestinians are.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My immediate surroundings? I live in Jerusalem. The neighborhood I'm in has not had any events but it's a small town, relatively speaking and it's just a 15 minute ride to the destroyed Moment Cafe or to the patched-up-multiple-times center of town.

Since the start of the "Oslo War" in Sep. 2000, we as a family have ceased to eat out, go to major public places, such as town or a mall and are overly concerned with our 3 older children having to get to school every morning by public transportation.

Recently, we've also stopped participating in hikes and 4x4 trips as an extra precaution.

<span id='postcolor'>

I can fully understand your views on the situation. I would probably saying the same things as you, if I was in your situation. You also know more history and fact then we do. The lives of your family might be in danger every day - so I fully understand why your views are as they are.

But... This might sound awful... but your situation clouds your view of a 'higher good''. We, who havn't had the experience that you have and are not so involved can distance us from the fact of how it feels to be there, how it is to fear suicide bombings or Israeli tanks.

Therefor we can make more objective judgement calls. Since we basically don't care too much we take a general humanitarian approach. We have nothing to fear and nothing to avenge.

[theavonlady 2]

More on the Church of Nativity standoff from today's Jerusalem Post:

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/04/07/News/News.46443.html

Specifically:

"Col. Marcel Aviv, in charge of negotiations, said the priests told army officers the terrorists had forced their way into the church and are holding people hostage. Offers by the IDF to treat the wounded inside the church and offer humanitarian assistance have been rejected by the gunmen.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 07 2002,16:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But... This might sound awful... but your situation clouds your view of a 'higher good''.<span id='postcolor'>

My, what nerve you have to make such accusations. How condescending! You don't know me and, from your posts, you and most everyone else here don't know what's going on at all.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> We, who havn't had the experience that you have and are not so involved can distance us from the fact of how it feels to be there, how it is to fear suicide bombings or Israeli tanks.<span id='postcolor'>

You can also distance yourself from the details of events every day here for the past 2, 8 or 20 years. By your own admittance, out of shear ignorance, you have no right to judge.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Therefor we can make more objective judgement calls. Since we basically don't care too much we take a general humanitarian approach. We have nothing to fear and nothing to avenge.<span id='postcolor'>

It is thanks to such European and US attitudes that there is indeed no peace in the middle east today.

Let's be fair.

Let's be even-handed.

Let's not call a spade a spade.

Let's not call Hamas and Jihad terrorists.

Now you know why the vast majority of Israelis never did and never will take the EU seriously.

[Longinius 1]

""Col. Marcel Aviv, in charge of negotiations, said the priests told army officers the terrorists had forced their way into the church and are holding people hostage. Offers by the IDF to treat the wounded inside the church and offer humanitarian assistance have been rejected by the gunmen."

Then why do the priests inside and the Vatikan say that there are no hostages? How odd. But again, Jews know better than the rest of the world, I am sure.

"Duh!"

Meaning?

As for the ambulances. I do believe some of them could have carried arms, explosives and terrorists. I wouldnt be suprised if that is the case. But I doubt ALL of them do it.

And please, answer my question. Why does not the IDF make sure Palestinian civilians get medical aid when they need it? Why do they in fact make sure they DONT get medical attention?

[Guest]

9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,159)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 07 2002,16<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But... This might sound awful... but your situation clouds your view of a 'higher good''.<span id='postcolor'>

My, what nerve you have to make such accusations. How condescending! You don't know me and, from your posts, you and most everyone else here don't know what's going on at all.<span id='postcolor'>

Auch.. did I hit a nerve there? It's just common sense. If you say, get pushed by sombody while waiting in line, you might call the person that pushed you 'idiot', although he in reallity is a very nice man. When you are involved in a situation, you are involved. And obvious from your posts your involvement and bias overshadows the knowledge.

As for the condenscending.. I was trying to be nice and understanding, but I am starting to loose my temper now.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> By your own admittance, out of shear ignorance, you have no right to judge.

<span id='postcolor'>

No, I said that we could judge, just because of shear lack of interest.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is thanks to such European and US attitudes that there is indeed no peace in the middle east today.

<span id='postcolor'>

No, it's thanks to extremists like you who talk of 'population transfers' and similar things.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now you know why the vast majority of Israelis never did and never will take the EU seriously.<span id='postcolor'>

Your loss. You need us much more then we need you.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 07 2002,16:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then why do the priests inside and the Vatikan say that there are no hostages? How odd. But again, Jews know better than the rest of the world, I am sure.<span id='postcolor'>

Then why don't they walk out?

Several have escaped and have been interview by a foreign Italian TV station. That was last week. More news not getting through?

Speaking of falsehoods:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=21233

More on the Church, again, at the IDF site:

http://www.idf.il/english/news/lies.stm

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 07 2002,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, it's thanks to extremists like you who talk of 'population transfers' and similar things.<span id='postcolor'>

Extreme circumstances sometimes call for extreme solutions. The idea was proposed by arabs in 1939 to begin with.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your loss. You need us much more then we need you.<span id='postcolor'>

No thanks. Europe has been the source for our major losses throughout history.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 07 2002,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, I said that we could judge, just because of shear lack of interest.<span id='postcolor'>

Please find some other guinnea pig to toy with your ideas.

[ran 0]

ok , there's enough of a big conflict to don't start smaller ones

some persons should calm down a little bit

this thread could continue on more than 50 pages , but i think it will be closed before

edit : fucking typos

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Extreme circumstances sometimes call for extreme solutions.<span id='postcolor'>

I think that some of your Palestinian suicide bombers agree with you on that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The idea was proposed by arabs in 1939 to begin with.

<span id='postcolor'>

So you have said already, and I have said what I think of ethinc cleansing, no matter who suggests it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your loss. You need us much more then we need you.<span id='postcolor'>

No thanks. Europe has been the source for our major losses throughout history.<span id='postcolor'>

That's what the Palestinians will be saying about Israel if you get your will through.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 07 2002,16:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for the ambulances. I do believe some of them could have carried arms, explosives and terrorists. I wouldnt be suprised if that is the case. But I doubt ALL of them do it.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, is it 10% or 80%? Do you know? Can you guess? I can't either. But the IDF has come across these cases so many times that they've reached the decision not to allow the PRC vehicles through their lines.

BTW, previously they were letting them through but only after they were checked. Sorry, the IDF had to choose between delaying an ambulance because of the constant Geneva Convention violations done by the PA with PRC vehicles versus the potential of terrorists coming through and blowing up in a crowded area or going on a shooting rampage at a busy intersection.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And please, answer my question. Why does not the IDF make sure Palestinian civilians get medical aid when they need it? Why do they in fact make sure they DONT get medical attention?<span id='postcolor'>

Read my links again. The IDF has tried negotiating to have Israeli Magen David Adom ambulances come in to battle areas (I wouldn't want to be one of the crew, I'll tell you that! and the PA has addamantly refused.

BTW, there's nothing holding up the transfer of medical supplies to hospitals in the PA, to th best of my knowledge.

It's a miserable situation but we don't have to take the risks of their ongoing flaunting of the ICRC's own rules.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 07 2002,15:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok , there's enough of a big conflict to don't start smaller ones

some persons should calm down a little bit

this thread could continue in 50 more page , but i think it will be closed before<span id='postcolor'>

You are probably right. I was interested in this thread because I thought I might learn something about the conflict, since there are several members here that are from Israel and know more then I do. So I attemped to keep a low profile and be nice and friendly.

But.. when somebody bites without provocation, I bite back. I also have very little understanding for people who suggest that ethnic cleansing is a fine way to handle problems. I have seen the effects of that in another place and I really didn't like what I saw.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 07 2002,16:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Extreme circumstances sometimes call for extreme solutions.<span id='postcolor'>

I think that some of your Palestinian suicide bombers agree with you on that.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, why didn't you say so just after the Oslo Accords were signed and Yitchak Rabin was a world hero and suicide bombers kept blowing themselves up in busses all over Israel back in 1994-95, when there were no Israeli incursions into the areas that were handed over to the PA in full compliance by Israel with the Oslo agreement?

Thank you for your useful equation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you have said already, and I have said what I think of ethinc cleansing, no matter who suggests it.<span id='postcolor'>

Good, so we'll leave all the Jews in Judea and Samaria. Now tell us how we'll make peace and have security?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your loss. You need us much more then we need you.<span id='postcolor'>

No thanks. Europe has been the source for our major losses throughout history.<span id='postcolor'>

That's what the Palestinians will be saying about Israel if you get your will through.<span id='postcolor'>

Enough Palestinians have said for a long time that they themselves are their worst enemy. That leave Europe the #2 spot.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 07 2002,16:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Duh!"

Meaning?<span id='postcolor'>

Referring to what you said:

"Much of her reports are recieved through cell phone communication and according to here IDF soldiers confiscate / destroy cellphones as they find them."

It's no big surprise that the IDF wants to cut off communications of the terrorists inside the church as much as possible.

BTW, we gave Arafat a recharged cell-phone battery. Ain't that sweet?

[ACEJim 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No thanks. Europe has been the source for our major losses throughout history.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh yeah. I forgot I was a racist anti-semite for a second there.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ACEJim @ April 07 2002,16:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yeah. I forgot I was a racist anti-semite for a second there.<span id='postcolor'>

No, just a contributor.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,15:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 07 2002,16:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Extreme circumstances sometimes call for extreme solutions.<span id='postcolor'>

I think that some of your Palestinian suicide bombers agree with you on that.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, why didn't you say so just after the Oslo Accords were signed and Yitchak Rabin was a world hero and suicide bombers kept blowing themselves up in busses all over Israel back in 1994-95, when there were no Israeli incursions into the areas that were handed over to the PA in full compliance by Israel with the Oslo agreement?

Thank you for your useful equation.<span id='postcolor'>

? - not sure what you mean. I was just saying that your statement that extreme circumstances call for extreme solutions, is shared by some of your Palestinian enemies. That also seems to me like the kernel of the problem.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you have said already, and I have said what I think of ethinc cleansing, no matter who suggests it.<span id='postcolor'>

Good, so we'll leave all the Jews in Judea and Samaria. <span id='postcolor'>

Yes! And I have said that already in an earlier post a couple of pages back.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now tell us how we'll make peace and have security?

<span id='postcolor'>

I don't even pretend to know. I havn't commented at all on the current IDF operation. I don't know if it is justified or not.

If you look at my posts you'll see that I have only gotten involved in questions about media/personal bias and 'population transfer'. I feel that I have enough common sense and personal experience to talk about them both.

Edit: I now see that I have commented on some other things as well (international relations), but nothing specific relating to the current situation.

[ACEJim 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,14:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, just a contributor.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry, I'm a bit confused, what am I contributing to?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 07 2002,16:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,15:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 07 2002,16:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Extreme circumstances sometimes call for extreme solutions.<span id='postcolor'>

I think that some of your Palestinian suicide bombers agree with you on that.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, why didn't you say so just after the Oslo Accords were signed and Yitchak Rabin was a world hero and suicide bombers kept blowing themselves up in busses all over Israel back in 1994-95, when there were no Israeli incursions into the areas that were handed over to the PA in full compliance by Israel with the Oslo agreement?

Thank you for your useful equation.<span id='postcolor'>

? - not sure what you mean. I was just saying that your statement that extreme circumstances call for extreme solutions, is shared by some of your Palestinian enemies. That also seems to me like the kernel of the problem.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm saying you're putting the cart before the horse.

Let's pretend it's 1994 and 1995. Rabin and Arafat have signed the Oslo accords. Israel has retreated from all Areas A and B (except for agreed "joint patrols").

The number of terrorist events during Rabin's and then Peres' terms shoots through the roof. The number of Israelis killed and crippled from suicide bombers and gunners was never anywhere so high.

Now apply your words: "I think that some of your Palestinian suicide bombers agree with you on that."

Who was extreme here? Which other country do you know that would tolerate such a situation for 8 damned years?

It is the cause of the problem - not the kernal - and the solutions remaining are extreme.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ACEJim @ April 07 2002,17:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 07 2002,14:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, just a contributor.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry, I'm a bit confused, what am I contributing to?<span id='postcolor'>

Confusion.

[nordin dk 0]

What reasons do you think they had for the suicide bombs at that time then?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ April 07 2002,17:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What reasons do you think they had for the suicide bombs at that time then?<span id='postcolor'>

In a statement quoted worldwide, in a Johannesburg mosque on May 10 1994, less than a week after signing the Gaza and Jericho accords in Cairo with Israel, Arafat stated his true intentions:

"The jihad will continue, and Jerusalem is not for the Palestinian people, it is for all the Muslim people ...

You have to come to fight and to start the jihad to liberate Jerusalem."

Yitzak Rabin publicly dismissed these words without explanation at the time.

More quotes from various PA sources over the first years after Oslo. Please read them through and you maybe maybe maybe just get the idea of what we Israelis have been going through (or ignoring) for the past eight years.

* “The settlements must be erasedâ€:

A broadcast on the Palestinian Authority’s

official “Voice of Palestine†radio station,

May 31, 1999, declared: “The settlements

must be erased from the face of the earth.â€

* “Employ all meansâ€: Longtime Arafat

aide Hanan Ashrawi urged the Palestinian

Arab masses to “employ all means of

protest†against Israel. (Arutz 7, June 1,

1999)

* “Ignite the land under their feetâ€:

A leaflet distributed by Arafat’s Fatah

faction of the PLO on May 31, 1999,

threatened: “We will ignite the land under

their feet until they leave our land forever.â€

(Associated Press, June 2, 1999)

* “Intensify the confrontationsâ€: Samir

Shehada, the PA official in charge of

organizing anti-Israel demonstrations,

vowed on May 31, 1999: “We will intensify

the confrontations against the settlements

and the settlers.†(Arutz 7, June 1, 1999)

* “Ready to fight a new battleâ€: In a

speech in Ramallah on March 19, 1999,

Arafat threatened: “We carried out the

longest intifada in history...They should

know we can start it again if they try to

prevent us from exercising our rights,†and

“We, the Fatah and PLO, are ready to fight

a new battle of Karameh every single day,â€

referring to a battle between Israel and PLO

terrorists in 1968. (Agence France Presse,

March 19, 1999)

* “The rifle is a means of life†: Othman

Abu Gharbiya, adviser to Arafat and head

of the PA’s National Guidance Directorate,

at a ceremony in Gaza: “We are right to

believe that the rifle is a means of life and

not death.†(Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah, March

1, 1999)

* “Explode with forceâ€:

From the biweekly

communique of Arafat’s

Fatah faction, published in

the PA newspaper Al-Hayat

Al-Jadidah, Dec.

21, 1998: “It is impossible

to struggle against the

settlements, the

confiscation of land and

cold-blooded killings via

negotiations. There is no

alternative but a struggle

that will smash the Israeli

aggression and emphasize the readiness of

our people to explode with force against any

aggression...â€

* “Our rifles are readyâ€: Arafat, to his

Fatah faction, on November 15, 1998: “Our

rifles are ready, and we are ready to raise

them if they stop us from praying in the holy

city of Jerusalem.†(Jerusalem Post, Nov.

16, 1998)

* “The path of jihadâ€: Speaking at the

funeral of an Arab terrorist in Gaza on June

4, 1998, Ahmad Hils, secretary-general of

Yasir Arafat’s Fatah movement in Judea-Samaria,

said: “The path of jihad, struggle,

and heroism continues to be the only way

to liberate Palestine and to establish our

independent state with Jerusalem as its

capital, and so it will be in the future.â€

(Quoted in the Palestinian Authority-affiliated

newspaper Al Ayyam, June 25, 1998.)

* “To fight, to resistâ€: In an interview

with the Israeli news agency IMRA on May

17, 1998, Marwan Barghouti, chairman of

Arafat’s Fatah movement in Judea-Samaria,

was asked about recent Palestinian Arab

demonstrations in which models of Israeli

towns in the territories were exploded:

IMRA: “Blowing up models of settlements

is in order to encourage people to resist the

settlements?â€

Barghouti: “Yes. And I think that we have

the legitimacy to resist the settlement

policy.â€

IMRA: “To blow up settlements?â€

Barghouti: “To fight, to resist the

settlements.â€

IMRA: “So that would include blowing

them up.â€

Barghouti: “Everything. Because the

settlement policy is terrorism. We have the

right to fight against the terrorism.â€

* “Become a martyrâ€: On Egyptian Orbit

TV on April 18, 1998, Arafat declared: “I

envy the martyrs and I hope to become one

of them.â€

* “Burn the ground under their feetâ€:

In a statement published in the official

Palestinian Authority newspaper Al-Hayat

Al-Jadida on April 16, 1998, Arafat sent

this message to his people: “O my dear ones

on the occupied lands, relatives and friends

throughout Palestine and the diaspora, my

colleagues in struggle and in arms, my

colleagues in struggle and in jihad ...

Intensify the revolution and the blessed

intifada ... We must burn the ground under

the feet of the invaders.â€

* “Swear by the blood of the jihadâ€: Also

on April 16, 1998, Arafat’s official Voice

of Palestine radio station broadcast a speech

by Marwan Barghouti, chairman of Arafat’s

Fatah movement in Judea-Samaria, in which

he said: “The rifle of Fatah, the rifle carried

by the Palestinian people which ignited the

revolution, will not be buried...Brothers and

sisters, I swear, I swear, I swear by the blood

of the jihad and the blood of our nation’s

martyrs.â€

* “Suicide bombings are legitimateâ€:

The PA-appointed Mufti of Jerusalem,

Sheikh Ikrama Sabri, said in March 1998:

“I believe suicide bombings are a response

to the occupation...If Israel does not respond

to peaceful initiatives to solve the problem

with the Palestinians, then it is legitimate to

fight against it as a sort of self-defense.â€

(Reuters, March 19, 1998)

* “March as warriors of jihadâ€: From a

song sung by children on the program “The

Children’s Club,†broadcast on PA

Television on February 13, 1998: “Each

and every part of your soil I have drenched

with all my blood. And we shall march as

warriors of jihad. O my exalted martyr, you

are my example.â€

* “Convoys of martyrsâ€: On the 80th

anniversary of Balfour Day —the 1917

British declaration endorsing the

establishment of a Jewish national home in

the Land of Israel— Mazen Izz Al-Din,

chief of the PA’s National Guidance

Directorate said on PA Television: “Our

people is capable of erasing the political

implications of the Balfour Declaration

through convoys of martyrs.†(Arutz 7

radio, Nov. 6, 1997)

* “There will be severe clashesâ€: “If a

solution is not found to the situation and

the political process is not returned to its

course, there will be severe clashes between

us and the Israelis . All options are open

before us.†—Jibril Rajoub , head of the

Palestinian Preventive Security Forces, in

a television interview (Middle East

Broadcasting Corp., June 20, 1997)

* “Ready for sacrificesâ€: Abbas Zaki,

member of the PA legislative council and

the Fatah central committee: “There is a plan

which was prepared by the Palestinian

leadership with the aim of confronting

Israel’s intransigence. The Palestinian

people is ready for a confrontation and is

prepared to make additional sacrifices. The

people are in a state of preparedness.†(Al-Sharq

al-Awsat, June 16, 1997)

* “React via all meansâ€: “The policy of

settlements and land confiscation constitutes

organized state terror against the Palestinian

lands. The Palestinian people have the right

to react to settlement terror via all means.â€

—from a statement issued by Fatah after

an emergency meeting on June 14, 1997,

broadcast on PA Radio on June 14, 1997.

(Israel Government Press Office)

* “Revolutionary violenceâ€: From a lead

editorial in the Fatah organization’s

newspaper (cited in Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah,

June 4, 1997): “Only the uprising of the

masses and the intifada in the Palestinian

homeland in September 1996 enabled the

Palestinians to hope for international and

Arab support. It is this intifada which

compelled the Israeli side to implement the

Oslo Accords. What distinguished this

intifada was its official nature. Palestinian

security forces took part side by side with

the masses. Only once the flow of blood

began and Israelis died at the hands of the

security forces’ gunfire did Netanyahu

understand that his assumption that the

Palestinians and Arabs did not have other

options was baseless. Only then did he

understand that he must get used to new

realities. Revolutionary violence, which

enjoys international legitimacy as a struggle

against occupation, is the option that must

be put on the discussion table. This is the

option that will bring about a breakthrough

in the current impasse and breathe new life

into the agreements.â€

* “All options are openâ€: “All options

are open for defending the land of the

Palestinian people.†—PA Planning

Minister Nabil Shaath, at a forum in Khan

Yunis. (Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah, April 30,

1997)

* “With blood and fireâ€: “I now see the

walls of Jerusalem, the mosques of

Jerusalem, the churches of Jerusalem. My

brothers! With blood and with spirit we will

redeem you, Palestine! Yes, with blood and

with spirit we will redeem you, Palestine!â€

—Arafat, addressing a crowd in Tulkarm,

broadcast on PA Radio on April 28, 1997.

(Israel Government Press Office)

* “I will killâ€: From a poem read on the

PLO’s Voice of Palestine on May 22, 1997

during the morning news program “A New

Day.†It was read as part of a series of

“Songs of the Homeland.†The same poem

was read on the

Voice of Palestine

during the Sept.

1996 riots. “O our

beautiful, precious

land imprisoned in

a cage and

surrounded by

wolves, My shaded

garden, the cruel

tormentors have

destroyed you, and

the dogs have

settled in you, O

Jerusalem, O my

city, With my

notebook and pencil and the fire of my rifle

I will shatter the cage, I will kill the wolves

and plant the flag, The dogs will not bark in

the heroic cities.†(Israel Government Press

Office)

* “Ready to sacrifice againâ€: “We did

not pay with the dear blood of thousands of

martyrs so that the Israeli government could

establish settlements on our land in the name

of peace. We have sacrificed in the past

and we will be ready to sacrifice again in

the future for the sake of liberating our land

and returning it to the bosom of the

Palestinian nation and for the sake of

establishing an independent Palestinian state

whose capital is Jerusalem.†—from a

statement issued by the PA cabinet in

Nablus on May 16, 1997 (PA Radio, May

17, 1997)

* “We know only one word: jihadâ€:

Speaking at a rally in Dehaishe, near

Bethlehem, on October 21, 1996, Arafat

said: “We know only one world, jihad,

jihad, jihad. Whoever does not like it can

drink from the Dead Sea or from the Sea of

Gaza.†(Yediot Ahronot, Oct. 23, 1996)

* “Prepare the stonesâ€: Arafat to a

delegation of Hebron Arab notables urging

the use of violence: “Have you run out of

stones in Hebron? Prepare the stones.â€

(Israel Radio, Oct. 21, 1996)

* “Ready in every wayâ€: Arafat in an

October 10, 1996 speech before the

Palestinian Council: “Negotiations have

achieved nothing up until now. As a

consequence, we must be ready in every

way to confront all possibilities. You must

understand what I mean by this.†(Near East

Report, Oct. 21, 1996)

* “Mass confrontationsâ€: Arafat, in an

interview with the Palestinian newspaper

Al-Ayyam, called for “mass confrontations

in all cities and villages to confront the

Israeli aggression against Al-Aksa

mosque.†(cited in the New York Times, Oct.

4, 1996)

* “Kill and be killedâ€: Arafat to

Palestinian security forces in Gaza on

September 24, 1996: “They will fight for

Allah, and they will kill and be killed, and

this is a solemn oath...Our blood is cheap

compared with the cause which has brought

us together and which at moments separated

us, but shortly we will meet again in

heaven... Palestine is our land and Jerusalem

is our capital.†(Ma’ariv, Oct. 4, 1996)

* “Return to armed struggleâ€: On

August 30, 1996, Muhammad Dahlan, a

senior Gaza PA security official, said: “The

Palestinian Authority does not exclude the

return to the armed struggle, and it will then

use its weapons.†(Jerusalem Report, Nov.

28, 1996)

* “Use all meansâ€: On August 6, Arafat

called Israel a “demon†and urged Arabs to

use “all means†at their disposal to fight

Israel. (New York Times, Aug. 7, 1996)

* “Rise up with all your mightâ€: PA

Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Sheikh Ikram

Sabri in a sermon at Al-Aqsa Mosque:

Palestinians should “rise up with all their

might against the occupation.†(Jerusalem

Post, June 14, 1996)

* “We have 30,000 menâ€: Arafat

threatening Israel with violence: “If Israel

rejects our demands there will be aâ€reaction

and we have a 30,000 man armed force.â€

(Israel Radio, June 7, 1996)

* “All acts of violence will returnâ€: PA

Planning Minister Nabil Shaath at a

symposium: “If the negotiations reach a

dead end, we shall go back to the struggle

and strife, as we did for 40 years. It is not

beyond our capabilities

... If and when Israel will say, ‘That’s it, we

won’t talk about Jerusalem, we won’t return

refugees, we won’t dismantle settlements,

and we won’t retreat from borders,’ then

all the acts of violence will return. Except

that this time we’ll have 30,000 armed

Palestinian soldiers who will operate in

areas in which we have unprecedented

elements of freedom†(Jerusalem Post,

March 15, 1996)

* “From the small jihad to the great

jihadâ€: Selim Zaanoun, acting chairman

of the Palestinian National Council, at

Arafat’s inauguration: “We are returning to

Palestine, and we are passing from the small

Jihad to the great Jihad.†(Jerusalem Post,

Feb. 13, 1996)

* “Sacrifice the last

boy and girlâ€: “The

Israelis are mistaken if

they think we do not

have an alternative to

negotiations. By Allah,

I swear they are wrong.

The Palestinian people

are prepared to sacrifice

the last boy and the last

girl so that the

Palestinian flag will be

flown over the walls, the

churches and the

mosques of Jerusalem.â€

—Arafat, speech on August 6, 1995 at a

party celebrating the birth of his daughter,

quoted in the Jerusalem Post, Sept. 7, 1995

* “Soul and bloodâ€: Arafat in a speech in

Gaza: “The soul and the blood we shall

sacrifice for thee Palestine.†(Jerusalem

Post, Aug. 3, 1995)

* “The weapon of jihadâ€: Speaking to

Arab laborers in Gaza in January 1995,

Arafat said: “All of us are willing to be

martyrs along the way, until our flag flies

over Jerusalem, the capital of Palestine. Let

no one think they can scare us with

weapons, for we have mightier weapons—

the weapon of faith, the weapon of

martyrdom, the weapon of jihad.†(Parade

magazine, June 25, 1995)

* “Jihad via deathsâ€: In a speech at Al

Azhar University in Gaza on June 19, 1995,

Arafat said: “The commitment still stands

and the oath is still valid: that we will

continue this long jihad, this difficult

jihad...via deaths, via battles.†(Jerusalem

Post, Aug. 3, 1995)

* “Liberate Jerusalem by jihadâ€: The

PA-appointed Mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh

Ikrama Sabri, said: “Jerusalem is under

occupation and the Moslems of the world

should liberate it by jihad and put it under

Islamic and Arabic authority.†(Jerusalem

Post, May 3, 1995)

* “The military optionâ€: Faisal Husseini

in an interview with the Egyptian weekly

Al-Arabi: “If Israel continues to undermine

the path to peace there will be no other

alternative but that called for by the Islamist

Palestinian opposition—the military

option.†(Agence France Presse,

May 1, 1995)

* “No option other than jihadâ€: The Gaza

Arab newspaper Al Watan, reported on

February 28, 1995, that PA cabinet minister

Nabil Sha’ath said: “In response to a

question on steps the Palestinian Authority

might take to confront Israeli measures,

Sha’ath stressed that the Palestinian

Authority is waging a struggle at the

negotiating table. If it becomes certain that

the negotiations process with Israel is

ending in failure, there will be no option

other than jihad.â€

* “A nation of jihad.†In a speech relayed

by telephone to a rally in Hebron, and

broadcast on the PA’s Voice of Palestine

Radio on February 14, 1995, Arafat said:

“Our nation is a nation of sacrifice, struggle,

and jihad.â€

* “Until the last martyrâ€: Arafat in a

speech on the 30th anniversary of Fatah’s

founding: “We are going to continue the

Palestinian revolution until the last martyr

to create a Palestinian state†and “We are

all seekers of martyrdom...I say to the

martyrs who died, to the martyrs who are

still alive, we hold to the oath, we hold to

the commitment to continue the

revolution...†(PA Television, Jan. 1, 1995)

* “Our people’s jihad.†In a 1994 speech

to the Organization of the Islamic

Conference, Arafat said: “The glorious

Islamic solidarity together with our people’s

jihad is an additional inducement for the

realization of our hopes.†(Israeli

Government Report, November 27, 1996,

quoting the PA Radio, December 15, 1994)

* “Our people’s jihad.†Addressing the

Organization of the Islamic Conference in

1994, Arafat said: “The glorious Islamic

solidarity together with our people’s jihad

is an additional inducement for the

realization of our hopes.†(PA Radio, Dec.

15, 1994)

* “Continue with jihadâ€: At a rally in

Gaza, Arafat declared: “Our people will

continue with its jihad.†(Ha’aretz, Nov.

22, 1994)

* “Continue the warâ€: Arafat in a letter

to Saddam Hussein: “The Palestinian

people will continue their war until the

establishment of a state whose capital will

be Jerusalem.†(Yediot Ahronot, July 24,

1994)

* “We sanctify the weaponsâ€: Jibril

Rajoub in a lecture at Bethlehem University:

“We sanctify the weapons found in the

possession of the national factions which

are directed against the occupation ... If

there are those who oppose the agreement

with Israel, the gates are open to them to

intensify the armed struggle.†(Yediot

Ahronot, May 27, 1994)

* “The jihad will continueâ€: In a speech

in a Johannesburg mosque on May 10,

1994, Arafat said: “The jihad will continue,

and Jerusalem is not for the Palestinian

people, it is for all the Muslim people ...

You have to come to fight and to start the

jihad to liberate Jerusalem.†(Ha’aretz, May

23, 1994)

* “Return to the armed struggleâ€: Jibril

Rajoub: “We shall distribute weapons to

the Palestinian residents and return to the

armed struggle.†(Yediot Ahronot, March 4,

1994)

* “The intifada is continuingâ€: Arafat

during a speech in Gaza: “The heroic

intifada, which has entered its seventh year,

is an extension of the 29-year old Palestinian

revolution and will go on relentlessly ... It

is continuing, continuing, continuing.â€

(Associated Press, Jan. 7, 1994)

* “Revolution until victoryâ€: Arafat in a

radio address: “It is a revolution until

victory, until victory, until victory.â€

(Algiers, PA Radio, Dec. 31, 1993)

* “We have not given up the rifleâ€: Faisal

Husseini in a speech at Bir Zeit University

on November 22, 1993: “Everything you

see and hear today is for tactical and

strategic reasons. We have not given up the

rifle. We still have armed gangs in the areas

and if we do not get our state we will take

them out of the closet and fight again.â€

(Ma’ariv, Nov. 24, 1993)

* “Continue the struggleâ€: Voice of

Palestine report: “Yasser Arafat stressed the

continuation of struggle until the Palestinian

flag is hoisted over Jerusalem’s walls.â€

(PA Radio, Oct. 24, 1993)

* “Only a stone’s throw awayâ€: Arafat

in a speech on Jordanian TV: “Palestine is

only a stone’s throw away for a small

Palestinian boy or girl.†(Jordanian TV,

Sept. 13, 1993)

[Aeon 0]

so you like media ?

I don't trust CNN and the other, I read only : www.indymedia.org

BTW, watch the IDF propaganda practice :

http://www.indymedia.org.il/imc....d=16989