Mid east

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dude, 10 kids on an internet forum arent gonna change jack shit!<span id='postcolor'>

That's true.  But debate here isnt really about 'changing things'

It's about using our minds to examine the events in the world around us and form opinions and views based on our intelligence (or lack thereof) and understanding.  

There is a rather disturbing trend of 'kids' these days is to just tune out things and shrug them off rather than looking at them and understanding them.  There is a quote that says 'Those who forget history are destined to repeat it'  And it is the truth.  If we stop caring and being critical of what goes on around us, then sooner or later past evils will resurface and throw the whole world into chaos.  I doubt anyone wants another Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin.    

If just one person reads this thread and then does some real reading and research to find out what the fuss is about when they previously would have just gone and played OFP some more, then it's worth 30 pages of heated discussion.

[KingBeast 0]

Wow RedRogue, that letter was incredible. I couldnt stop reading it!

I think that guy has got his shit together, so to speak.

[InRange 1]

If only there were more people like that guy on both sides, things would be a lot calmer these days.

[Satchel 0]

All nice in theory,

but i´m afraid the only voice that will be heard by israel is that of political force by the U.S., this conflict obviously has no peaceful solution all sides are happy with.

The reality currently is that IDF mobs will continue to shoot on anything that moves in the occupied territorys; vehicles of german help organisations and ambulances are shot at, hospitals are stormed and palestinian male patients are being snatched by IDF, while hospital workers are threatened to be shot if they treat injured palestinians, truly sick whats going on there.

Resulting out of the Israeli offensive, now Iran amongst Iraq threatened to stop the oil flow to states connected to Israel politically, like the U.S- although they are not dependant on Iranian oil as others.

Ayatollah Chamenei called all islamic nations to start an oil embargo to states having close relations to Israel, although OPEC and most arabic states disagreed to this for now, this may nevertheless become the start of a new oil war in the middle east, after all it´s a clear sign on Iraq´s as Iran´s stance towards Israel and connected political allies.

I wouldn´t be surprised if it will be the declared reason for the U.S. once again going into war against Iraq, as it is for sure on the very top of the U.S. " to get rid off" list.

By Israel´s offensive and actions, the middle east becomes unstable in a critical phase of the U.S´s "war against terror", exactly this is becoming true what the U.S. tried to prevent from the first hours of their planning for the Afghanistan campaign on. I´m sure Israel is going to pay for this, the one or the other way as noone interferes with U.S. plans, in this case the way of the strongest and not that of treatys or Law counts.

[Satchel 0]

Update:

Just heard it in the news; IDF forces began to wipe out complete refugee camps, full aerial bombardment is conducted on civillian housings. Seems this is ethnic cleansing large scale ongoing....... also an effective way to "fight terrorism", no palestinian left means nothing to worry about.

In addition an IDF sniper fired inside the surrounded church of nativity in Bethlehem, missing a monk only by inches.

It´s really getting out of control i think, and the goals of Sharon and his minions becoming more and more obvious, what he´s doing down there right now comes nothing short of the holocaust they once experienced themselves.

[scout 0]

yeah, and we putting also men and women to the wall right?

thats a bunch of crap, what u just said, sorry say, and i dont really know where u got it from.

its as true as to say martians have landed yesterday in Las-Vegas.

btw. it seems u dont know jack-shit about the holocoust then.

[Satchel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 06 2002,16:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yeah, and we putting also men and women to the wall right?

thats a bunch of crap, what u just said, sorry say, and i dont really know where u got it from.

its as true as to say martians have landed yesterday in Las-Vegas.

btw. it seems u dont know jack-shit about the holocoust then.<span id='postcolor'>

I would rather say you are not informed on whats going on down there;

just some time ago a palestinian "suspect" that was secured and tied with his hands on the back was executed by IDF.

Just very recently a 14 year old girl was shot to pieces by IDF machine gun fire.

german help organisations are withdrawing their help and trying to get out of the country because they are being shot at by IDF.

You want more, then go read some news.

[ACEJim 0]

I'm sure he's not so ignorant as to not know what "Lebensraum" means...

Seems you don't know jack-shit about anything Scout.

[scout 0]

LMAO..........

really? like execution style? now thats a good one, i have to tell the folks.

tell me where it was maybe i and my company were there, so u can charge me with this too........

[Satchel 0]

ACEJim,

maybe he don´t know about it, but it seems he doesn´t want to either.

[ACEJim 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 06 2002,14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LMAO..........

really? like execution style? now thats a good one, i have to tell the folks.

tell me where it was maybe i and my company were there, so u can charge me with this too........<span id='postcolor'>

Shooting someone execution style is when they are executed. Ie they are no threat to you, are unarmed and normally restrained.

It's also term used in court by criminalists.

Oh and it was the technique used by the Nazi's to kill un armed civilians in Russia.

[scout 0]

okay, here is the deal:

im an infantry officer who had just came back from couple of weeks time in the west bank and ive served there before too.

my cousin and couple of friends are there now, so i get live update from the field.

i know u want to believe that we are blood thirsty people but thats bogus. in fact most of us supported the peace process and most of us are left wings.

but im sick and tired of this, "everything the palestinians say is true, any thing the israelis say is a lie", attitude, and from a multitude bed-time horror stories.

the fact is that u probably dont know jack shit out-side your TV and internet, and not much else.

now i can tell u some hairy stuff the palestinians do, but i feel its a waste of breath.

all in all, ive heard some pretty stories, but most of them dont come close to reality.

[ACEJim 0]

And I'm sick of the - "All palestinians are evil suicide bombers who will kill us all given half the chance and are in league with the vast legions of anti-semites around the world" crap you, Avon and the other Israeli fanboys like to come out with.

And as a member of one side, you are obviously biased.

[scout 0]

yeah yeah, biased, what ever u say.

just that i have first person data and most of u dont.

and again, i didnt hear any of u boys say a thing when the bombers blew themselves up exept:"thats wrong, but they probably had a reason"

and "oh my god, they faked these documents, those evil isralis"

thats pretty biased for me.

all i said, is the PA is a terrorist organisation, thats supporting terrorism and educating people to kill jews. and we have hard evidence, sorry to ruin your nice theories.

maybe im biased, or maybe u cant admit ur wrong.

[aliasalpha 0]

That letter did make for interesting reading. The description kind of reminds me of the abused child syndrome (the correct name of which escapes me for now). Suffering under brutal oppression breeding the same attitude weather they're aware of it or not.

Oh, and to the guy who said that the opinions of 10 kids on the net won't change shit, if just one of those kids grows up with a burning desire to change things instead of just accepting them as they are, he/she may remember this very discussion & act on it.

[ACEJim 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 06 2002,15:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"thats wrong, but they probably had a reason"<span id='postcolor'>

That sounds kinda sensible doesn't it?

I mean how many suicide bombers kill themselves just cause they're bored??

And of course you're biased - you're an officer in the IDF!!

[scout 0]

oh and i'd relly want to know where u got the data on the execution cause when i was a regular, one of our guys got thrown to jail for 3 weeks,  for puncturing a tire of palestinian car.

and why in 1993 after we signed a peace agreement, they started bombing all of a sudden, every time we pulled out of a town.

[ACEJim 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 06 2002,15:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">all i said, is the PA is a terrorist organisation, thats supporting terrorism and educating people to kill jews<span id='postcolor'>

And what does the IDF do then?

It trains and educates it's soldiers to kill arabs!

And how do you define terrorism?

In my opinion shooting an IDF officer who is illegally occupying Palestinian territory is not terrorism, it is a legitimate act of resistance.

Killing civilians is different and wrong of course, but that goes for both sides, not just the palestinians.

[Pete 1]

i know u want to believe that we are blood thirsty people but thats bogus. in fact most of us supported the peace process and most of us are left wings.

not true, really....your no more blood-thirsty than the palestinians imho.

but i doubt that about left wings, if most of you are left wings, why are you led by a extreme RIGHTwing goverment with a extreme rasist as sharon leading it?

as much as arafat is responsible for the suicide bombers he can or cant control, so is sharon for shooting at ambulances and killing red cross personell...

[Longinius 1]

"all i said, is the PA is a terrorist organisation, thats supporting terrorism and educating people to kill jews. and we have hard evidence, sorry to ruin your nice theories."

You mean just like the nation of Israel? The way the war on the Palestinians is fought is a pure act of terrorism. Reprisals and attacks against civilians. Executions without proper trials. Occupation of land. Attacking ambulances and paramedics. Refusing medical care to wounded. Attacking journalists and peace demonstraters. This means Israel also supports terrorism and trains people to kill Palestinians. And we have hard evidence of this, sorry to ruin your nice theories.

[scout 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ACEJim @ April 06 2002,16:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[it trains and educates it's soldiers to kill arabs!]

no, it trains to kill terrorists and soldiers, just like yours does

[in my opinion shooting an IDF officer who is illegally occupying Palestinian territory is not terrorism, it is a legitimate act of resistance.]

hey, u want to shoot me? thats fine, asa soldier i take my chances.

but if ur takin on civvies, ur in trouble

[Killing civilians is different and wrong of course, but that goes for both sides, not just the palestinians.]

if u use civvies as human shelter thats just shows what you are.<span id='postcolor'>

i dont know how this quote stuff works so it may be a bit confused.

[scout 0]

heres a biased story about an ambulance:

couple of resevists saw an ambulance drivnig on some road, they suspected and stoped it, and looky looky, whats inside?

3 C4 belts for suicide bombers, couple of granades, AK-47 and some bags with det cords and stuff.

this story is biased, please dont believe me! and its not the only one.

[Longinius 1]

"heres a biased story about an ambulance:

couple of resevists saw an ambulance drivnig on some road, they suspected and stoped it, and looky looky, whats inside?

3 C4 belts for suicide bombers, couple of granades, AK-47 and some bags with det cords and stuff.

this story is biased, please dont believe me! and its not the only one."

And this is the reason 120 paramedics have been shot dead by IDF forces? Because SOME ambulances carry weapons? And you also see this as a ligitemate reason to deny ALL ambulances access to areas where there are wounded people? Thats a fine excuse.

[scout 0]

no, we dont deny entery, we check them and the people that are sitting in and let them go. thats what ive done any way.

but god help the sucker who uses the ambulance as a shooting post.

nice figure, 120 where did u get it from?

[scout 0]

did u know that almost in every suicide event, there are other members that has the job of hitting medics and doctors when they arrive?

again, thats old news, since 1995.