Mid east

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 08 2002,19:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do agree with the rest of his statement, Jews do run NYC, well more than any other Western city.<span id='postcolor'>

Irish-Americans run Boston, German-Americans run Milwaukee, Cuban-Americans run Miami, African-Americans run Detroit... etc... etc...

So what?

[bn880 5]

Well so they run it, a city has some power you know.

For instance, Jews freaked out that Poles killed some of them in WW2 (or the Poles would have been killed also), so they boycott Polish flights to New York (recently). Talk about war hungry people full of conflict in their blood. Bringing WW2 to NYC.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 09 2002,02:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Talk about war hungry people full of conflict in their blood.<span id='postcolor'>

I totally disagree.

The North American Jewish community has probably done more to advance peace, tolerance, social equality and justice than all other ethnic minorities combined.  They are proud of this fine reputation and have every right to be.

Only a small affluent portion of that community continues to support AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobbies in Washington.  However, AIPAC won't tell you that.  They would like everyone to believe as you do, that they act on behalf of all 6 million American Jews.  But it just ain't true.  And neither is it true that criticism of AIPAC is an Anti-Semitic attack against the entire Jewish community, as AIPAC would have us believe.

Check out any of these sites if you want to know what much of the world's Jewish community really thinks about the Middle East:

Tikun Magazine

Not in My Name Coalition

Jewish Voice for Peace

Gush Shalom

Jews Against Occupation

Jewish Peace Fellowship

Truth, Justice, and Human Rights in the Middle East

Jews NOT Zionists

Yesh Gvul - supporting IDF reservists refusing to serve in the Occupied Territories

Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions

B'Tselem (Israeli Human Rights Group)

Bat Shalom, Israeli Women for Peace

Occupied Territory

Rabbis for Human Rights

Oz v'Shalom – Netivot Shalom (religious Zionist anti-Occupation)

Jewish Alliance Against the Occupation

Association for Civil Rights in Israel

Prominent Jews writing articles in Haaretz

Alliance of Middle East Scientists and Physicians

Visions for peace with justice in Israel/Palestine

Middle East Crisis Committee

Search for Justice and Equality in Palestine/Israel

...to name just a few.

[Chill 0]

Bernadotte great post! I am sure not everyone subsribes to the veiws of the Israel government. But unfortunately they have the power and the firepower to do what they want!! The Isreal government have more terrorists than the Palestinians.

Sharon was responsible for 800 palestinians being killed in the invasion of Lebanon. The only reason his fat butt isnt dragged into the international court is because he is in government! I can go on and talk about the terrorist actions of Israel through their short history in the Mid East but it will fall on deaf ears!

The acts of Palestinians are those of desperate people not terrorist!

[Col. Kurtz 0]

As I have said before here, palestinian terrorist attacks on civilians are an act of desperation, as they have no other mean to fight the Isralis. What are they suppose to do? Try and destroy Israli tanks with Kalaishnakovs and Molotov Cocktails? Shoot down Israli Gunships with small arms fire?

I dont support the Palestinian methods, but I cna see why they are used.

[gecilada 0]

Yes, maybe

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Oct. 09 2002,04:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sharon was responsible for 800 palestinians being killed in the invasion of Lebanon. The only reason his fat butt isnt dragged into the international court is because he is in government!<span id='postcolor'>

In 1953, Israel launched a reprisal attack against the village of Qibiya in Jordan.  Guess who was in charge?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unit 101, led by then Colonel Ariel Sharon, destroyed 50 homes, killing 69 Jordanian civilians who were hidden inside and had gone unnoticed. Although Sharon claimed he did not know the houses were occupied, the event still shocked and embarrassed Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion.<span id='postcolor'>...when he was just 25 years old.

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Oct. 09 2002,14:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Oct. 09 2002,04:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sharon was responsible for 800 palestinians being killed in the invasion of Lebanon. The only reason his fat butt isnt dragged into the international court is because he is in government!<span id='postcolor'>

In 1953, Israel launched a reprisal attack against the village of Qibiya in Jordan. Guess who was in charge?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unit 101, led by then Colonel Ariel Sharon, destroyed 50 homes, killing 69 Jordanian civilians who were hidden inside and had gone unnoticed. Although Sharon claimed he did not know the houses were occupied, the event still shocked and embarrassed Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion.<span id='postcolor'>...when he was just 25 years old.<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm this guy makes Arafat look like an angel if we count in body count.

[5thSFG.Hawkins 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">German-Americans run Milwaukee<span id='postcolor'>

Ha, you haven't been to Milwaukee in awhile have you?

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (5thSFG.Hawkins @ Oct. 09 2002,14:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">German-Americans run Milwaukee<span id='postcolor'>

Ha, you haven't been to Milwaukee in awhile have you?<span id='postcolor'>Nope.  I just cleared customs there once on the way from Canada to the Oshkosh fly-in.  

Who's runnin' the place these days?

[5thSFG.Hawkins 0]

African-Americans

Enough violence in that city to go around.  You probably heard of the guy getting killed by the mob of teenagers on the national news. Not to mention the corruption in the police department itself.

[Sam Samson 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Oct. 08 2002,23:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Oct. 08 2002,19:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hamas and pal-pa-police were fighting too yesterday in gaza. most notably the pa-police chief died.

did any of you bring that up too?

nooope. 'cuz wasn't israel doin' the killin'  <span id='postcolor'>

When ya can't attack us for what we say then you might as well attack us for what we don't say, huh?

(Bernadotte checks to see if the moon is full.)<span id='postcolor'>

*sam helps bernadotte back up since dot tripped over his double standard on his way back out of the dark*

in 1995 the israelis freed 900 palestinians and ceded 4 settlements in keeping with the oslo accords. (hey, just the other day they dismantled 4 more and threatened to level other, illegal, settlements.)

and what did arafat do in turn?

nuthn'.

he got bernadotte as his lawyer! aww shucks.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Oct. 10 2002,23:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Oct. 08 2002,23:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Oct. 08 2002,19:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hamas and pal-pa-police were fighting too yesterday in gaza. most notably the pa-police chief died.

did any of you bring that up too?

nooope. 'cuz wasn't israel doin' the killin'  <span id='postcolor'>

When ya can't attack us for what we say then you might as well attack us for what we don't say, huh?

(Bernadotte checks to see if the moon is full.)<span id='postcolor'>

*sam helps bernadotte back up since dot tripped over his double standard on his way back out of the dark*

(hey, just the other day they dismantled 4 more and threatened to level other, illegal, settlements.)

and what did arafat do in turn?

nuthn'.

he got bernadotte as his lawyer! aww shucks. <span id='postcolor'>

in 1995 the israelis freed 900 palestinians and ceded 4 settlements in keeping with the oslo accords.

Oh yes, the 900 palestinians that were thrown into jail whithout a civil trial, and beat up by a people believing torture is perfectly ok. And we all know what closed military trial means - not fair at all. However, you are nearly right about those settlements. The only problem is that the establishing of settlements kept on during the Oslo agreement. And that is not according to the agreement.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Oct. 10 2002,23:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in 1995 the israelis freed 900 palestinians and ceded 4 settlements in keeping with the oslo accords. (hey, just the other day they dismantled 4 more and threatened to level other, illegal, settlements.)

and what did arafat do in turn?

nuthn'.

he got bernadotte as his lawyer! aww shucks. <span id='postcolor'>

Since signing the Oslo Accord, the total number of settlements increased, not decreased.  The few settlements that have been removed are small renegade clusters of caravans set up by radicals without authorisation.  Their removal has nothing to do with Oslo.  The Israeli settler population has doubled from ~200,000 to ~400,000 since Oslo was signed.  In fact, the number of red dots on this map has increased by ~50% since the UN published it in 1996.

But I'll give you and your 4 red dots the benefit of the doubt.  I'll just assume that you are one of the few people who really didn't know any of this, rather than hastily conclude that you are employing a double standard.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Oct. 10 2002,23:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in 1995 the israelis freed 900 palestinians<span id='postcolor'>

Where did you get this info?

I know that under the Oslo Accord, Israel had agreed to release Palestinians imprisoned for acts committed before Oslo was signed.  But as far as I know, these and other Oslo promises where never kept.

[brgnorway 0]

deleted because I couldn't find the right link amongst the several hundreds.

[Bernadotte 0]

I found something here about 415 Palestinian religious leaders being rounded up without charge in 1992 and exiled to Lebanon.  About a year later when Oslo was signed, ~200 of them were allowed back in.

The same site mentions that, in accordance with Oslo, Israel had intended to release over 10,000 Palestinians from Israeli jails.  So, according to Sam, 900 actually got out.  Even if it is true then, in Sam's mind, Arafat still owed 100% gratitude for Israel keeping 9% of its promise.  That's what I call a double standard.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Oct. 12 2002,05:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I found something here about 415 Palestinian religious leaders being rounded up without charge in 1992 and exiled to Lebanon.  About a year later when Oslo was signed, ~200 of them were allowed back in.

The same site mentions that, in accordance with Oslo, Israel had intended to release over 10,000 Palestinians from Israeli jails.  So, according to Sam, 900 actually got out.  Even if it is true then, in Sam's mind, Arafat still owed 100% gratitude for Israel keeping 9% of its promise.  That's what I call a double standard.<span id='postcolor'>

The problem with Sam is that it doesn't matter at all. He believes he's right - all the time! What is right or what is wrong is about the eye of the beholder - or those that try to understand or those who understand the Israeli to have biblical rights to ALL the land.

To bad really!

Thanks for the link anyway Bernadotte

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Sep. 26 2002,23:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Jesus never killed anybody.  ole mohammed spent his last two years doing nothing but that. and his followers did it for a successive 100 years after that.<span id='postcolor'>

Hey Sam, how come you never answered KingBeast's question about the crusades, back on page 236?

Meanwhile, Jerry Falwell said sorry.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In an interview conducted on 30 September for the 6 October edition of 60 Minutes, Mr Falwell said: "I think Mohammed was a terrorist. I read enough by both Muslims and non-Muslims, (to decide) that he was a violent man, a man of war."  -- BBC<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I sincerely apologise that certain statements of mine made during an interview for CBS's 60 Minutes were hurtful to the feelings of many Muslims," Mr Falwell said in a statement.  -- BBC<span id='postcolor'>

I have to wonder what this world would be like without the particular form of 'love' being spread by Sam, Duke, Jerry and other born again types.

[brgnorway 0]

4--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Oct. 13 2002,224)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have to wonder what this world would be like without the particular form of 'love' being spread by Sam, Duke, Jerry and other born again types.<span id='postcolor'>

Love???

Deleted by myself as I was about to enter flaming area!

[ralphwiggum 6]

good move bgnorway.

please respect each other. we don't need to start another war regarding mid-east.

[SirLoins 0]

Bernadotte,  read what Jerry Falwell said, I know you may have to read it twice to understand it.

What he was doing was apologizing to the "law abiding Muslims", not what he said about Mohammad.

I agree with his statement about Mohammad 100%

Do you disagree with the facts about him? (Mohammad)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bernadotte Posted on Oct. 13 2002

I have to wonder what this world would be like without the particular form of 'love' being spread by Sam, Duke, Jerry and other born again types.<span id='postcolor'>

You should be as noble as Jerry Falwell and apologize to Sam and Duke.  

I would pity the world that didn't have the "love" you apparantly know nothing about.

Your use of the phrase "born again types" shows ignorance and spite.

Shame on you!!

EDIT:RalphWiggum: some quote tags were causing trouble

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 24 2002,05:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No desire to discuss?   Maybe not on your terms.<span id='postcolor'>Please forgive me for not finding the desire to discuss any of this on your terms either.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 09 2002,02:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well so they run it, a city has some power you know.

For instance, Jews freaked out that Poles killed some of them in WW2 (or the Poles would have been killed also), so they boycott Polish flights to New York (recently).  Talk about war hungry people full of conflict in their blood.  Bringing WW2 to NYC.<span id='postcolor'>

Kind of naive..

Of course it was the polish that suffered in the concentration camps, no matter whether they were polish jews or polish orthodox or whatever, fact is they were poles.

But fact is quite a lot of the concentration camp personell were polish, and not because they were forced too. Employing poles made it easier to keep the "real purpose" of the camps secret. Furthermore were quite a few poles ready to kill or denounce for just a few cigarettes in return. Of course the polish citizen were afraid and under constant risk of being shot, but noone was FORCED to work (as a guard) in a concentration camps. I think that is just a lame excuse, it doesnt need much of logic to understand that people suffered terribly in those camps and who else could have created such a horror than a bunch of sadists.

But back to the topic

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Oct. 16 2002,12:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 09 2002,02:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well so they run it, a city has some power you know.

For instance, Jews freaked out that Poles killed some of them in WW2 (or the Poles would have been killed also), so they boycott Polish flights to New York (recently). Talk about war hungry people full of conflict in their blood. Bringing WW2 to NYC.<span id='postcolor'>

Kind of naive..

Of course it was the polish that suffered in the concentration camps, no matter whether they were polish jews or polish orthodox or whatever, fact is they were poles.

But fact is quite a lot of the concentration camp personell were polish, and not because they were forced too. Employing poles made it easier to keep the "real purpose" of the camps secret. Furthermore were quite a few poles ready to kill or denounce for just a few cigarettes in return. Of course the polish citizen were afraid and under constant risk of being shot, but noone was FORCED to work (as a guard) in a concentration camps. I think that is just a lame excuse, it doesnt need much of logic to understand that people suffered terribly in those camps and who else could have created such a horror than a bunch of sadists.

But back to the topic<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm let's not forget how the nazi threaten the slavic people. They should be slaves or killed.