Keeping units on "No Fire"

[grub 10]

Hey guys,

I have searched for a similar topic but didn't see anything. Apologies if it's extremely noticeable.

So I'm moving in my squad of 5 (all on "No Fire") on a chedaki squad. Its pitch black and the enemy has no NV. As I get close enough I begin to position my units accordingly. Then 4 lets me know there's an "enemy to the front, very close" just as I was about to graciously thank 4 for his information he opens fire, even after I strictly stated there was to be no fire till further instruction. I mean, not the end of the mission, just had to change strategy at the last moment and reminded 4 that upon arrival back at HQ he'll be in serious s***.

Has this happened to any one else? It happens to me a lot. Me thinks that my units are too close that they start to feel uncomfortable due to "personal space" so they open fire. Then I thought maybe the enemy has spotted them and its a "me or him" scenario, then I noticed that the enemy still has his back turned. Sometimes my unit will stay on "No Fire" and sometimes his icon has no cross on it even though 2 seconds prior he did.

Anyone?

Also recently my units have begun to get stuck, not only on objects on the map but on the flat. Just wondering if anyone has seen this and knows how to move them along again? Last time I saw it was in the first aid training session.

Regards,

Grub

[jasonnoguchi 11]

No fire means not firing when enemy is far away. They will still engage when enemy is near or is firing at you.

[grub 10]

No fire means not firing when enemy is far away.

Sure, but sometimes they'll sit 10ft away from the enemy and not fire for 3 mins while I swing around the other side for a flank.

In OpF, they would only shoot if asked, I used to loose units because I'd forget to say "open fire". You could get as close as you wanted?

My question was how come they can turn themselves on and off. In a group of 4, its only ever one unit that all of a sudden appears in "Open Fire" mode, and I'll have only just asked them all to not.

[Gray1107 10]

Hold Fire seems to actually mean don't fire unless under threat.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

Yes, its hard to determine when exactly they feel "under threat" but generally, someone will open fire when close enough to an enemy regardless of the command.

[maturin 12]

If you're playing with the newer beta patches, your troops will go into danger mode automatically and ignore virtually all your orders, fighting on their own as if they don't have a commander.

[santafee 10]

This was mentioned like 100 times also by me 3 times...

And i just can say, this MUST ´be changed....

Give us a

-Fire on my lead

-Never Fire

-Return Fire

its more then annoying like its now.

[NeMeSiS 11]

If you're playing with the newer beta patches, your troops will go into danger mode automatically and ignore virtually all your orders, fighting on their own as if they don't have a commander.

The newer beta patches? You mean 'any BI game since OFP1.0'. ;)

AFAIK they start ignoring the no-firing command when the enemies knowsabout about them starts increasing or when it reaches a certain treshold.

[Maddmatt 1]

They open fire when they know the enemy has spotted them. I think it's realistic that they don't sit there and let the enemy shoot them.

[NoRailgunner 0]

I would say its a unfortunate cheat and breakin the orders from a team/group leader. IRL you receive some feedback from your team before you give the order to fire. ;)

As long as AI isnt able to anticipate - decisions should be fully up to the team/group leader - at least in "Danger"/"Stealth" and with "Hold Fire"!

Now its more accessible for those people who dont care much on stealth and recon missions. Would be great if BIS would change this bug/cheat.

[Maddmatt 1]

It's not a bug. This discussion has popped up many times.

If they don't open fire, then they will just get shot. You have already failed at your stealth approach by the time they open fire.

[NoRailgunner 0]

If the player has given the order "Danger" or "Stealth" and "Hold Fire" the AI should obey this. Its the decision from the team or group leader and he should stay responsible for his orders and his men. Now the AI shares the info about detetection without proper reports to the leader.

Basically these things could be fixed/improved:

> exact and precise AI reports

> if leader orders "Hold Fire" AI should strictly hold fire on danger and stealth behaviour

> if detected and under fire - own AI units should report at which target they fire

> default AI should use smoke grenades to cover their next action eg attack, flank, retreat etc

Dont make cheap excuses before the AI developments + improvements are really "done". ;)

[dayglow 2]

So the AI should just sit there and die? You think that is realistic?

[Grizzle 0]

I'd rather they open fire when under threat than get shot because I told them not to fire.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Re-read what I suggested in my last post. :rolleyes:

+ add different speech (volume) for AI in danger and stealth behaviour = more silent/whispering

[grub 10]

So the AI should just sit there and die? You think that is realistic?

Mmmm realism. For me its about me as commander knowing that the enemy have no idea about our presence, spending 1/2 an hour setting up and whilst positioning the last unit 4 decides "F*** this I'm going in".

Yes essentially it is better that your AI fire if under threat or noticed but I'm talking about if they haven't been. They still tend to unleash.

It happened to me the other night I was in a sniper position in the hills observing the enemy. I had my units + Hummer with GL positioned just under the hill on the enemies left. Just as I was waiting for the patrols to be where I noticed the GL rounds going off in my site. He was ages away, at least a km and had opened fire thus making me revert to a much earlier point in the mission.

An just to be sure I'm not trying to complain about the AI or the game in any way never have never will. I'm just used to OpF and the AI dying for their CO due to the CO forgetting to let them know they can open fire.

[fabrizio_t 58]

They open fire when they know the enemy has spotted them. I think it's realistic that they don't sit there and let the enemy shoot them.

I agree.

For sake of precision i think they are supposed to be able to return fire, even if ordered to hold, when spotted by enemy AND being identified (as a threat). I'm feeling comfortable with this behaviour, we don't need more micro-management, do we?.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Disagree - AI should report contacts and give the player the information that the team/group has been spotted and ask for permission to open fire. ;)

Leading AI should not lead into careless attitude with comfortable excuses for team and group leaders saying something like "It was the AI not me!"

For the sake of "ultimate military simulation" - better do it right and dont let the responsibility for team- and groupleaders fade away.

[grub 10]

Disagree - AI should report contacts and give the player the information that the team/group has been spotted and ask for permission to open fire. ;)

Leading AI should not lead into careless attitude with comfortable excuses for team and group leaders saying something like "It was the AI not me!"

For the sake of "ultimate military simulation" - better do it right and dont let the responsibility for team- and groupleaders fade away.

I have to agree. In the long run, if your plan is to sneak up on the enemy till they can hear your breath you should have the option to only fire when asked, thus 'Hold Fire'

Of course an option for 'fire if need be' could have its advantages it just depends on you chosen tactic.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Disagree - AI should report contacts and give the player the information that the team/group has been spotted and ask for permission to open fire. ;)

'Sir, they are shooting at us, shall we shoot back or sit here and die?' :rolleyes:

They open fire when spotted, combat is already inevitable at that point.

[bascule42 10]

I did manage to set up a scenario where the AI didn't return fire. After many tries, the only way I can get them to hold fire, regardless of what else is happening is to give them a STOP command.

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[ffur2007slx2_5 11]

Unless your units are in "careless" mode.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Unless your units are in "careless" mode.

Which you can only set in the mission editor, and also enforces movement similiar to safe mode, which isnt very stealthy. :p

[-Snafu- 79]

'Sir, they are shooting at us, shall we shoot back or sit here and die?' :rolleyes:

They open fire when spotted, combat is already inevitable at that point.

Reminds of that part in BHD.

Pilla: Colonel, they're shooting at us! Colonel, they're shooting at us!

McKnight: Well shoot back!

In OFP I lost many a AI because they didn't shoot back on their own initiative.

[NoRailgunner 0]

It seems like some more people here need to remind or search, read & understand how fire commands are given - including proper contact reports. :rolleyes: