Operation Arrowhead : no gun sway in crouched position

[An Fiach 10]

Indeed. Upwards, downwards, on the left, on the right

Optics misalignment (downwards) :

this awkward shot: screenshot 1, resulted in a headshot: screenshot 2

notice the difference between where the bullet goes and where the dot is...

Ironsights misalignment (upwards):

screenshot 1, after a few moments: screenshot 2

Some more illustrations for optics misalignment :

This awkward shot resulted in a hit : screenshot 1 (see the tracer about to hit the target)

This one resulted in a hit too : screenshot 2

But this one was a miss : screenshot 1, screenshot 2 ....I thought I had it...:o

(tracers :mod Pistolfied's Tracers, puff of smoke : mod WarFX Particles by OpticalSnare)

Sometimes, hitting your target in crouched position is a real feat ! :party:

I use crouched position a lot and each time I play ArmA II, the sway is present and I must realign the weapon by myself with the cheap trick mentioned previously. We must have different style of play & different settings, because I don't understand how you have never experienced it.

'hold breath' doesn't do anything against the misalignment of the weapon in crouched position,

if you want to realign the weapon correctly, you must use the cheap trick mentioned previously.

Thanks Sniperwolf572 for posting the scheme.

I see what you mean, I have to say I have seen that once or twice but it wasn't necessarily in the crouch and it has never been a problem for me. I play crouched quite often as it is the best stance to use in a tactical sense. I even tested on Utes after your last post and didn't really see a problem. There must be something else involved with this issue other than just the stance.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

er... in case some of you never noticed, you can't hold breathe forever in the game. At some point, the character breaks out breathing anyways, you don't need a meter for that.

[jw custom 56]

I see what you mean, I have to say I have seen that once or twice but it wasn't necessarily in the crouch and it has never been a problem for me. I play crouched quite often as it is the best stance to use in a tactical sense. I even tested on Utes after your last post and didn't really see a problem. There must be something else involved with this issue other than just the stance.

I see this everytime i play, it is most visually noticable with iron sights. In this clip it's mostly vertical misalignment.

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It's like the rifle stock is moving back through shoulder and head :eek:

[max power 21]

I see this everytime i play, it is most visually noticable with iron sights. In this clip it's mostly vertical misalignment.

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It's like the rifle stock is moving back through shoulder and head :eek:

Odd... I've never seen anything like this.. or never noticed it. I mean, I don't doubt the video or any of the screenies, but I wonder why I've never noticed this. Is this a beta patch thing or a non-beta patch thing? Both?

[jw custom 56]

Odd... I've never seen anything like this.. or never noticed it. I mean, I don't doubt the video or any of the screenies, but I wonder why I've never noticed this. Is this a beta patch thing or a non-beta patch thing? Both?

Same in non-beta :(

[Mudkip 0]

-I agree with you concerning proper sights, it would be great. Unfortunately I read sometimes ago that it wasn't feasible within ArmA II.

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[jw custom 56]

Not sure what your showing in that clip, but in ArmA 2 the problem occure when your crouching(atleast i've never had problems standing or proning).

[An Fiach 10]

I see this everytime i play, it is most visually noticable with iron sights. In this clip it's mostly vertical misalignment.

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It's like the rifle stock is moving back through shoulder and head :eek:

WOW I've never seen it like that.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

ok, tested and proven, its almost impossible to hit anyone in crouch position using ironsights!!!!! BIS, please correct this as most of us are in crouch most of the time! :( I tried also with red dot and the accuracy really fell off the cliff too! Shots NEVER land where the red dot is, sometimes by up to 5m with target at 50m range!

[no use for a name 0]

I've noticed this too; although not as bad as in the video (it looks like they used time accel to make a point); and yes, it is very annoying. It almost looks like they tried to model your guy breathing and the gun moving up/down with each breath; but it's waaaayy overdone.

As for being more inaccurate while crouched, that's true when looking at the position of the characters in the game; but when I go shoot and if I crouch I brace my left elbow on my knee making it more stable. Maybe they could add another position where you can do this to add stability.

Really I think the best option would be to add the ability to "brace" your weapon on objects like fences, trees, cars, etc.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

^... bracing left elbow on the knee was exactly how I was taught to fire from a crouch position back in my military days, but thats what we call a low kneel, then there's the high kneel which is what we have in the game. High kneel is necessary when behind sand bags and stuff. Maybe add a low kneel? ;-) But even in high kneel, I never need 20 rounds to hit someone at 50m range in full auto.

ACE mod has the weapon resting feature already even in their beta, go check it out. It was great in ArmA1 as well.

[no use for a name 0]

^... bracing left elbow on the knee was exactly how I was taught to fire from a crouch position back in my military days, but thats what we call a low kneel, then there's the high kneel which is what we have in the game. High kneel is necessary when behind sand bags and stuff. Maybe add a low kneel? ;-) But even in high kneel, I never need 20 rounds to hit someone at 50m range in full auto.

ACE mod has the weapon resting feature already even in their beta, go check it out. It was great in ArmA1 as well.

good info! In fact I believe GRAW had these positions IIRC (been a while since I played either). Yeah I know that Ace2 has weapon-resting; but I really think it should be in the core game as anyone with half a brain would know to use any available objects to stabilize their weapon :D

[jasonnoguchi 11]

heheh yeah, BIS actually took A LOT of ideas from ACE1 into ArmA2 already but kinda missed out some here and there maybe to keep ACE relevant? hehehehe . If the game is too perfect then there's nothing to mod and no fun for modders! hahahah (ok, just joking, there is always something to mod. :) )

[Mudkip 0]

Not sure what your showing in that clip, but in ArmA 2 the problem occure when your crouching(atleast i've never had problems standing or proning).

If ArmA 2 had that then we could aim properly even with huge amounts of swaying.

[max power 21]

I just tried it and I experienced nothing even close to that behaviour. Maybe there is another factor at play, here. I almost always shoot in a kneeling stance.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

I just tried it and I experienced nothing even close to that behaviour. Maybe there is another factor at play, here. I almost always shoot in a kneeling stance.

I noticed that the sway is worst at the extreme left and right of the dead zone. How big is your dead zone or are you playing with it totally off so the whole world moves anytime you move? I am playing with 100% deadzone. I like free aiming without the whole world moving.

[MQ-9 Reaper 10]

I see what you mean, I have to say I have seen that once or twice but it wasn't necessarily in the crouch and it has never been a problem for me. I play crouched quite often as it is the best stance to use in a tactical sense. I even tested on Utes after your last post and didn't really see a problem. There must be something else involved with this issue other than just the stance.

-You may have been in crouched position unwittingly :) , because it only happens in crouched position (and crouch+lean).

- Have you tried with Mk 48 mod 0 on Utes, it is quite noticeable with this weapon imo

- you are probably right.But I have noticed that : height difference between target-shooter was a factor, the aiming deadzone setting also seems to increase the misalignment (on my computer at least)(I like to play @100% so that i can put the optics at the bottom of the screen, or anywhere else. Nevertheless the sway is still present with aiming deadzone set @0%)

I see this everytime i play, it is most visually noticable with iron sights. In this clip it's mostly vertical misalignment.

[YOUTUBE]

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BndPTvWYcJI&hl

It's like the rifle stock is moving back through shoulder and head :eek:

The sway in your video seems much faster than mine :eek: and it looks like aiming deadzone is set at 0%...

I just tried it and I experienced nothing even close to that behaviour. Maybe there is another factor at play, here. I almost always shoot in a kneeling stance.

If that is true, you are very lucky lol

[max power 21]

I noticed that the sway is worst at the extreme left and right of the dead zone. How big is your dead zone or are you playing with it totally off so the whole world moves anytime you move? I am playing with 100% deadzone. I like free aiming without the whole world moving.

1/2 the potential dead zone.

To the above poster, it is true.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

It depends on vertical angle of aim, it's easiest way to reproduce it is aiming straight down while crouched, and can result in an extreme situation like this in a very short time of observation (standing up and aiming down does not result in such a deviation ever):

Aiming parallel to the ground has the least amount of misalignment. Aiming 20-25 degrees upwards worst result is the front post going out of sight.

[An Fiach 10]

I play with 0 deadzone, simply because I was trained that my weapon goes where my eyes go and that effect is not accurate, it doesn't feel right to me. Also my training taught me to turn and face my targets to make the most effective use of the ballistic armor that US troops wear these days so turning my body isn't an issue for me. I use free look to see areas that I do not wish to point my weapon, for example, at my team mates.

[jw custom 56]

The sway in your video seems much faster than mine :eek: and it looks like aiming deadzone is set at 0%...

Yes i have my aiming deadzone on 0%, i used to have it at 10% back when i still wore training wheels( crosshair :p ).

[Jorge.PT 10]

Aiming parallel to the ground has the least amount of misalignment. Aiming 20-25 degrees upwards worst result is the front post going out of sight.

Yes, this is very annoying. It's impossible to aim up a hill when climbing it, because of this "feature". Did anyone from BI leave feedback about this issue?

[Bouben 3]

I play with 0 deadzone, simply because I was trained that my weapon goes where my eyes go and that effect is not accurate, it doesn't feel right to me. Also my training taught me to turn and face my targets to make the most effective use of the ballistic armor that US troops wear these days so turning my body isn't an issue for me. I use free look to see areas that I do not wish to point my weapon, for example, at my team mates.

Exactly, very true.

[Alex72 1]

I play with 0 deadzone, simply because I was trained that my weapon goes where my eyes go and that effect is not accurate, it doesn't feel right to me. Also my training taught me to turn and face my targets to make the most effective use of the ballistic armor that US troops wear these days so turning my body isn't an issue for me. I use free look to see areas that I do not wish to point my weapon, for example, at my team mates.

Exactlly. This is how you play ARMA. I never cared for the floating crap. Makes me feel like im a retard when i try to aim at things. :)

With the use of FREELOOK my world does not always move like Jason mentioned. I got freelook mapped to my mouse - thumb button. I have my thumb on it at all times so from all these years of playing that way - its in my blood. Dont even notice i press that button anymore.

EDIT:

The floating thingy makes me feel like i have no control over my movements. They are ...floating around. Dont like it. Seriously - you dont "float" when you have a rifle in your hands while aiming. You move your body after the aim. At least i always did when i shot the real deal.

EDIT2:

Its the upper body isnt it? Then my bad. Just came to think about it. Its the upper body that is moving with the floating stuff. That is ofcourse realistic. You can turn one way much more than the other however. Oh well - it really makes it too "floaty" and out of control for me personally.

EDIT3: And ONTOPIC... The movement of the weapon while crouched is indeed too much. Make it less mis-aligned (front sight moves out of sight of the back sight at times), and add normal sway to deal with the situation instead. Think thats much better.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Alex72

[jw custom 56]

and add normal sway to deal with the situation instead. Think thats much better.

Thats what it's supposed be and is when standing and a bit when proning, i guess something went wrong when coding the crouch position lol :p