Experience Weight Based Ironsights/Weapons in ARMA2

[nkenny 1051]

Experience Weight Based Ironsights/Weapons

What you need

* Arma2 Editor

* Two playable units. CDF Rifleman, and CDF Machinegunner.

* A Toggle freelook button. (default 2xAlt)

* An Optics button (default Right mouse button)

How you do it

The approach is simple. Plant a CDF Rifleman and a Machinegunner somewhere on the map. Make sure both are playable.

Preview your game as the Rifleman. Bring up his Ak74 and wave it around a bit. Soulswitch to the Machinegunner. Bring up the PKM and aim it around. Shoot a little, get a feel for both weapons.

Notice: Aside from recoil PKM and AK74 perform exactly the same and can both be brought to bear with equal speed.

Now lets try something different. Switch back to the Rifleman and this time while aiming down the ironsights hit the ‘toggle freelook’ button. Notice this time the gun lags slightly behind your ‘point of aim’ and the weapon seems to be much more naturally affected by recoil. Have fun yet? Try the same with the PKM…

Notice: Massive difference. The PKM is significantly less dexterous than the AK74 which is easily ‘felt’ by looking around. Additionally note the artificial boundaries on your turning. Interesting.

Now repeat the exercise while wounded or winded. Aha.

Conclusion + Thoughts

I WANT IT LIKE THAT BY DEFAULT! Aside from the turning limits this is exactly how Ironsights ought to perform in a mouse to screen environment. The feel is amazing and the sense of realism (and value of lighter more dexterous weapons) is readily apparent.

As to the origin this leaves some interesting questions. Perhaps a left over from Operation Flashpoint days? I distinctly recall that the gun would lag behind crosshair. Perhaps a bugged TrackIR functionality? The turning borders are also definitely reminiscent of the free-float functionality. Regardless this would be a very welcome option to the game.

* Distinct weapon handling differences

* Easier Operation Flashpoint style Aiming

* Easy implementation, its already present albeit not in a practical sense (as an option please)

-k

[.kju 3241]

Are videos feasible or do you think people need to 'feel it' themselves?

[shataan 1]

What kinda poll do ya call that? lol 3 positives FOR what YOU want? I like it as is anyways. We are already heavilly effected by being wounded or winded. I think the aiming recovery time after running for aways is way too long as it is as well, but can live with it.

The 1 thing that really pizzes me off is gameplay rebalancing on the fly. Novalogic did it alot with Joint FlOps. However if ya dig the kinda thing you are talking about, by all means make a mod.

[mr_centipede 31]

Have you tried upping the AIMING DEADZONE? its in game options

[Jex =TE= 0]

If you slowed the mouse for heabier weapons and sped it up for lighter weapons as the players picked them up that would work however, the players can always up the mouse speed for their selected weapon, negating the affect but I agree - having a weight to weapons would be great (and also weight of gear affecting player movement). It's just silly to think that someone using an M240 weilds it the same way you do with an M9.

[stgn 39]

Not if you make it slower to accelerate and decelerate then it doesn't matter if you up the mouse speed still going to be slower on target than a lighter weapon.

STGN

[nkenny 1051]

@Mr_Centipede and Shataan

Try it. While some remaining vestige of Operation Flashpoint style freelook, this isn't the same.

@Kju

Yes, it would be possible to create a video. Albeit without close scrutiny it would be hard to tell what the actual difference is. People experience hand-to-mouse coordination differently, prefer different sensitivities. It really must be felt to establish what I'm trying to communicate.

Having said that it is painfully easy to test! The next time you are playing ARMA2 glance down the ironsights and hit your freelook button. Do this with two different weapons, and you are done.

Mechanical Difference

Let us make a few definitions.

Your point of aim; is where your barrel is currently pointed.

Your point of view; is assuming zero free look the centre of your screen. (where your mouse is pointed)

Default Arma2 Ironsights:

Your point of aim and point of view is one and the same. Weapon dexterity is attempted emulated by introducing "lag" on your POINT OF VIEW.

Wounding or winded stances affect your POINT OF VIEW. This makes the aiming 'feel' laggy and affects your mouse control.

Operation Flashpoint Style:

Your Point of view remains uncontested. Your POINT OF AIM will drag behind (depending on weapon weight/dexterity rating)

Wounded or Windy will affect your POINT OF AIM, but not your POINT OF VIEW. This makes controls "crisper" and more "responsive" . ie: Your mouse input isn't affected, your weapon is.

-k

[mr_centipede 31]

I tested it, and it does have merit in it. Some sort of momentum. What's describe also I think is visible when you look around in 3rd person mode. the point of aim will lag behind a bit from point of view. but in first person, the point of aim will always be at point of view. If you're in scope view, I think its okay if POV is same as POA

[edit]

after further testing, I discover that when moving the mouse at Y axis in first person mode, there is the discussed effects of this momentum/lagging of POA with POV. but not at X axis. I think this is a bug

Edited November 7, 2009 by Mr_Centipede

[Sirex1 10]

I am against this, weapons simply don't weight that much or have the momentum effect you speak of in real life. And i did my military service with the Automatic Carbine 5 (AK5 a Swedish version of the FN FNC) and it weighs 4.5 kg loaded (compeared to the M16A4 wich weighs 4 kilos loaded).

A soldiers should always have his weapon pointed where he is looking, and poiting a weapon is not that hard and there is no acceleration effect irl.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Sirex1

[CarlGustaffa 4]

For sniper and marksman rifles, only a little lag. Maybe not to "realistic" values, only to make these rather specialized weapons less attractive for cqb. For heavy .50 cal sniper rifles, effect should be more so. The difference in M4 and M16 handling should be so small it wasn't worth mentioning.

one definitely looks like it has some momentum. There is no way you could swing this rifle around as we currently can in Arma.

Although I tend to like the idea, I fear that if implemented it will be overdone like so many features in so many games. I.e. I wouldn't like to have the same effect on x axis as is currently on the z axis. Some are already excessive on the z axis. However, lack of z axis fighting (quick adjust to new angle/elevation) makes it much less of a problem. This effect on x axis, and the game would be unplayable.

More important to me, would be to slow down rotation when prone. Maybe not to realistic values for a rifle, but some value that would make it tougher to choose prone over standing. With the current crouched sight animation bugs for non scopes, I choose to ignore that stance for now :p

Edited November 8, 2009 by CarlGustaffa

[nkenny 1051]

@Sirex1

But did you try it? I agree a soldier in a CQB environment should always point the weapon where he is looking. Do not think of this as removing that ability, think of this as enhancing this by PERMITTING a soldier to “snap†his head around quickly if needed.

Compared to disrupting your mouse movement this is a far less intrusive way of handling it!

@Mr Centipede and Carl Gustaffa

While some tweaks may be in order to fully take advantage of the feature. I firmly believe that the game offers a reasonable performance from the get-go. As Mr Centipede notes, clearly the animations support it. Even if it is a piece of left over code from earlier games, the potential ‘feel’ has too much potential to disregard.

I do however have a sneaking suspicion that weapons act this way by default for users of TrackIR. Perhaps someone can comment?

- k

[mrcash2009 0]

I know what this poster is referring to its kind of locked on iron sight which I use alot, it also actually works very steady for sniping and using Binos .. I use the combination alot, to have it set under a key on/off would be nice.

[whisper 0]

To me it's just the same effect as you see it when upping the floating deadzone to the max.

The only difference, is that the mouse movement in the floating deadzone is insanely accelerated compared to the mouse movement out of it, so you can't see the effect

Max up the floating deadzone, pull the mouse sensitivity slider all the way to the minimum, or nearly there, and see for yourself, you can again feel the difference between an assault rifle and bigger gun

My bet : BI accepted that the player reduced the floating zone. But they wanted to still give an advantage to the people using the floating zone. So they accelerated the mouse movement inside the floating zone (like maximum speed is the best way to achieve precision.... but anyway, let's not digress) more than out of floating zone. This in effect made all the lil differences in weapon "agility", that are present in config files, not felt anymore. Movement is too fast inside floating zone, and differences are leveraged (if any exist anymore) outside of it (and most people turn off floating zone altogether anyway).

[IronTrooper 0]

bump :pray:

[Windexglow 10]

I've always loved this effect, and when hunkering down to return fire I'll often turn freelook on just for this exact effect.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@IronTrooper: Why do you dig up, and even bump an old thread? You didn't even participate in it with any insights or suggestions, not then, not now.