Machine guns

[Joe Porta 0]

In Ofp the M60 and the PK in my opinion are shit!

I was playing SP this morning walking up to Meux when I was ambushed by 2 men carrying M/c guns they both opened fire on me, hearing the bullets whistle past my head I hit the dirt. Turning 90 degrees to face them seeing that they were about 75m away I fired 5 rounds killing them both.

I dont know much about M/c guns but are the generally that ineffective? That engagement took about 3 seconds and by all rights I should be a red stain. They had a height advantage, superior numbers and the element of surprise. If the roles had been reversed (me ambushing the 2 M/c gunners) I would still of won.

I have started playing Day of Defeat recently and have a pathological fear for any M/c gun these things are death on a bipod. For anyone who hasent played DOD M/c guns have to be deployed either in a M/c gun nest or in the prone position but when they are deployed they can hold of whole enemy advances. They are accurate have a high rate of fire and can put the shit up anyone who just happens to hear that rasping bark.

While in Ofp infantry portable M/c guns are slow extreamly inaccurate and a general burdan to anyone carring it and will probably be dumped at the first chance. Mounted M/c guns are quite the oposite, ok they have a slow rate of fire but are accurate east to aim and are feared.

I suggest Bis make a deployable bipod option (like dod) to the infantry portable M/c gun making it more effective as a squad support weapon.

Has anyone any other gripes about the IP M/c gun?

ps. I'm not trying to start a flamewar, if you have nothing constructive to add please dont post. I also dont want to hear any "why dont you just f*** off and play DOD then!" talk, if thats the case f*** you in advance.

[Placebo 29]

Why don't you just f*** off and read a Sven novel then After all he was the best machine gunner in the squad, you might learn something

Seriously though while I don't have too much of a problem using the "pig" with a fair amount of accuracy it would be rather nice if the AI had a suppression factor put in

[Antichrist 0]

I actually sometimes love MG in the game

Especially if mission involves a lot of close combat

[LordZach 0]

i can never hit anything with the MG so i usually just plop down and start picking them off with my M-16 iron sights. mounted MGs eh...gimme a M2A2 everything's going down unless i let the AI drive because he usually tries to drive through the minefield

[Aculaud 0]

I will say that i find mounted MG's to be more effective particularly because you can zoom in so far with them, hence getting a better idea of where you're shooting.

[dayglow 2]

Were they standing up or prone when they fired? That would make all the difference in the world. The AI also tends to fire short or long then walk a long burst across their target so if you were quick enough you can get a shot off. I've done that a few times, hear the gun open up and just hit the dirt and take a shot hitting the AI.

Handling the guns on the other hand is pretty good. As long as you are prone and move your bursts across your target, it's pretty effective.

COLINMAN

[Mask 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I will say that i find mounted MG's to be more effective particularly because you can zoom in so far with them, hence getting a better idea of where you're shooting.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah i agree, that they r much better, though normal Mc guns like PK and M60 r kinda useful sometimes Just gotta know how to use them in the right way

[Sheriff 0]

DOD's Mounted MG is good indeed and i do believe the RPM factor is quite realistic. Accurate and Realistic weapon values for such weapons could have a devastating affect on Gameplay in OFP for sure but i do agree some of the weapons are less than desired and need to be adjusted.

Checkout this proposal written up by [FILO] HuBBa and PiNs-Da-Smoka.

http://www.docuwild.com/perdidos/Proposal.php

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

After having created a few addons and battled with the lack of proper documentation regarding balanced weapons, ammo and vehicles, we have drafted up a proposal about setting up a reference documentation for addoncreators. This will contain realistic and agreed upon values that will fit into a balanced OFP game.<span id='postcolor'>

This really doesn't apply to the current weapons, ammo and vehicles already included in Operation Flashpoint but rather applys to individual modders and larger teams developing realistic addons for the Operation Flashpoint community and it's players. This proposal has quite alot of community backing indeed.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I have fun with M60/PK in close distance in OFP. but when it comes to long range accuracy...well, not my first choice. I love spraying bullets on enemy and watch their blood sprout all over their body.

[LordZach 0]

i was prone. seems like the recoil isn't done before the next shot comes out. oh well. i've seen the AI mow me down with a MG while THEY were standing up and running. pretty pathetic when i can't hit shit prone

zooming with mounted MGs is going to give someone seizures someday. max zoom + full auto = flashie flashie

if you see the flash...stop holding down the mouse button

[Assault (CAN) 1]

As a gunner myself; I agree, the MG's in OFP need to fixed. They are too innacurate. The bi-pod should always be out when you are expecting enemy contact. The only times that I keep the legs folded in is when I am putting the MG (C6-FN MAG) onto the tri-pod to be used in the SF role or when I am putting it away for storage or transport.

I can and have hit a man sized target at 600m with a 5 round burst using the C6 in the light (bi-pod) role. IMO, it is an easier task for me IRL than it is in OFP. And that is saying something.

Tyler

[Assault (CAN) 1]

BTW, wkk Gimbal has made a nice beta version of an upcoming M-249 mod that he is planning. He gets the accuracy of the weapon more or less right.

Try the addons/mod room for the thread.

[InRange 1]

Yeah, whenever I'm stuck with, say a M-60 in a game where you can't choose your own weapon I always pick a different rifle off the first dead guy I see. I prefer an AK74 or a M-16 over a M-60 or PK anytime.

[dayglow 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (InRange @ Mar. 31 2002,06:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah, whenever I'm stuck with, say a M-60 in a game where you can't choose your own weapon I always pick a different rifle off the first dead guy I see. I prefer an AK74 or a M-16 over a M-60 or PK anytime.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't know. In the main campaign in the mission where you help the resistance take the town with the AT team on the hill, I hope you know which one I'm talking about. Anyways a Ural arrives with a squad of Ruskies aboard and I was glad that I had a PK in my hands because I dropped prone and unloaded it on the truck, blowing it up and taking out the whole squad as it tried to unload. Couldn't have done that with an M16

Each weapon serves it purpose. The only thing missing is the suppressive nature of a MG. The AI doesn't fear it. Now if they kept their heads down when a MG is spraying the area they are in so a flanking manouver works better then the MG's would be perfect.

COLINMAN

[Joe Porta 0]

I downloaded that Minimi Assault recommended, its more effective that the M60 and the PK but its still a 3rd party development.

To prove the poor performance of ofp's M/c guns I suggest we do an experiment.

Go to the mission editor/desert island now place an officer (you) and a M/c gunner (ai) in a team at ID66 at north side of the hill. Now place an enemy squad at ID68/69, that squad will be approx 200m away from the tip of that hill. Get into a good fire position put your binos on and tell the M/c gunner to engage the enemy squad.

The M/c gunner might get 1 or 2 kills before the enemy squad kill him but the vast majority of his shots end up impacting behind the enemy. Prooving the M/c guns inaccuracy, but before you say "oh thats because ai cant hit shit" you pick the M/c gun up of the corpse of your fallen comrade and engage the enemy and you probably wont do much better.

[DodgeME 0]

MG...hmmmm they work better in mid ranges for me. I know where is that Ural and having a Pk there is awesome. MG can do much more than just fire. They are great for supressing the enemy and masking other team mates like snipers who kill the enemies without being heard. Anyway the MG are quite innacurate BUT u still hit your enemy when u know what u are doing. He is running? Fire ahead of him and he will surely get into some bullets. Same ain't gonna happen for sure with a M-16 or KF74.

[MHSJROTTCADET 0]

Actually I love the machine guns, I grab one whenever I get the chance, if I could carry a Law with a M-60 I would be in Heaven! The trick for me is to use short bursts and correct your fire, except at close range, I use it like a 3-round sniper rifle, unless I am shooting into a group very tight, a vehicle, or don't know where the enemy is.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MHSJROTTCADET @ April 01 2002,02:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually I love the machine guns, I grab one whenever I get the chance, if I could carry a Law with a M-60 I would be in Heaven!    The trick for me is to use short bursts and correct your fire, except at close range, I use it like a 3-round sniper rifle, unless I am shooting into a group very tight, a vehicle, or don't know where the enemy is.<span id='postcolor'>

Check beta2 for the Minimi/M249, coming in 1 or 2 days in the addons section. There will be a Minimi Para too, which is a short barrel/retractable stock version. You will be able to carry a LAW along with it.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You will be able to carry a LAW along with it.<span id='postcolor'>

That's very cool!

BTW, has anyone tried 'Aaron Ash's' real MBT and IFV mods? I downloaded these last night and was VERY impressed. OFP's original vehicles are just plain shitty in comparison. I wish there was a way to replace OFP's vehicles with his because they are WAY more realistic and leauges better than OFP's original vehicles.

Basically he re-textured the vehicles to what they should look like and added a realistic loadout. An M1A1 now has 900 rounds of .50 cal, 11000 rounds of co-axial 7.62 NATO ammo, 30 rounds of Sabot, and 10 rounds of HEAT. Also, the Sabot round no longer explodes, just like it should be. The gun sight on a tank now works like it should, range lines/indicators and all.

Anyways, he made both the .50 and the 7.62 MG's way more accurate then they are in OFP, which is the way they are in real life. The 'beaten zone' was as tight as it should be. It was actually possible to kill someone with a 20 round burst at 800m!, just like in the 'real' world.

This is how OFP's M-60 and PK should be.

Tyler

[Renagade 0]

I could probably do better with the m249 out of CS

[EBass 0]

In DoD if a deployed MG even sees u ur dead. The thing with OFP is that u have such a big area to deplo that no ones gonna speak up on u. If the mgs were so pwerful no one would use anything else. I think an accuracy increasing bipod would be nice but I like the M60 already

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Anyone here (in this thread)... there are others on this forum with military experience) ever used a real MG? Besides myself?

One of the best MG's in the world today ( a real bitch to clean though.. ) : The FN MAG

I have never used an M-60, so I can't really comment on its effectiveness, or lack thereof but I'm sure its more accuracte in real life than it is in OFP.

Tyler

[DeathShrimp 0]

I like the MGs as they are, although a working bipod would be a nice addition...

What i'd really like to see though, is an M60/PK/M2HB mounted on a tripod somewhat lower to the ground than the current M2 mount...looks a bit daft really (unless it's used for AA, which it isn't). I think a new MG mount would make base defense look a bit spiffier (on bunkers etc.)

[USSoldier11B 0]

The machine gun is generally the most casualty producing weapon in an infantry squad. This is why they are used as the initiating weapon in an ambush if no claymores are available. I personally have caused much death and destruction in OFP with the M/G's. Just like in real life, the M/G's in OFP are horribly inaccurate when fired from any position but the prone. This is due to the massive amount of barrel climb produced from firing such a high volume of fire. M/G's are also great for laying grazing suppressive fire (1 meter off of the ground @ 100 meters distance). I noticed that the AI in OFP will react to suppresive fire, and it inhibits thier movements and ability to return accurate fire.

[dayglow 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ April 01 2002,00:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The machine gun is generally the most casualty producing weapon in an infantry squad. This is why they are used as the initiating weapon in an ambush if no claymores are available. I  personally have caused much death and destruction in OFP with the M/G's. Just like in real life, the M/G's in OFP are horribly inaccurate when fired from any position but the prone. This is due to the massive amount of barrel climb produced from firing such a high volume of fire. M/G's are also great for laying grazing suppressive fire (1 meter off of the ground @ 100 meters distance). I noticed that the AI in OFP will react to suppresive fire, and it inhibits thier movements and ability to return accurate fire.<span id='postcolor'>

Really? All I've found is that suppressive fire pisses them off and zero in on my head in .2secs

COLINMAN