ArmA 2 I/O analysis results

[Leon86 13]

Responding to several questions posted:

1. You MUST use a Page File. Most programs have to access it at some point even if they don't require the extra RAM. This is because programmers can't count on the fact everybody has a ton of RAM. This is also why ArmA2 doesn't use all the RAM you have. Too expensive to program/compensate for such extreme ranges of hardware. If you want to limit pagefile use, change its max and min size = 1024 MB. I have 6 Gig of RAM and set my max/min to 3072 to be safe. Techncially you can keep ease it down until you start crashing again... Personally I'd start with 3072, go to 2048, then 1024, then 512, then 256, then 128, then 64 MB.

It's probably best not to touch the pagefile at all. The pagefile will only be used if it's needed, when it's not needed you wont get a performance decrease. If it is needed and it isn't there your system crashes.

[Punisher5555 0]

Thanks! I did everything but the detailed pages of each scenario which have been pasted from qwertz analysis excel sheet.

@MavericK96:

I had a blue screen with my 2gb ramdrive on 64bit Win7 with 4gb ram while running Arma2 but it also might be a result of to much overclocking ;)

You need more RAM. You should never have a ramdrive with just 4GB. Win7x64 takes roughly 1.7GB at idle. Then Arma2 takes 2GB. Which leaves you 0 for a ramdrive. That is why you blue screened.

Read the other threads on using a ramdrive with Arma2. You should have 12GB to make it stable. 8GB you can just get away with it.

YOU DO NOT NEED A PAGE FILE WITH VISTA/WIN7 X64 WITH 6GB OR MORE RAM. Turn it off. It is useless for 64bit. If you think you are going to use more than the 4GB free (1.7 taken by OS) then buy more RAM. Google search it pagefile = useless for 64bit with ram.

Remember that Arma2 is a 32bit program. It will never, never, ever, ever use more than 2GB. It can't. Even with all the mods added in. BIS has done a good job with getting all that data streaming in from the hard drive to constantly fill that 2GB. With the new beta it is getting better.

The SSD helps BIS with this as they are one of the fastest ways to contantly fill that 2GB. The ramdrive trick with 12GB+ is another.

Until BIS comes with a new 64 engine in which they can fill all that beautiful ram to their hearts content, then the SSD/ramdrive are your two options.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Win7x64 takes roughly 1.7GB at idle.

Ultimate is only using 655-705MB for me.

[qwertz 10]

You need more RAM. You should never have a ramdrive with just 4GB. Win7x64 takes roughly 1.7GB at idle. Then Arma2 takes 2GB. Which leaves you 0 for a ramdrive. That is why you blue screened.

Read the other threads on using a ramdrive with Arma2. You should have 12GB to make it stable. 8GB you can just get away with it.

YOU DO NOT NEED A PAGE FILE WITH VISTA/WIN7 X64 WITH 6GB OR MORE RAM. Turn it off. It is useless for 64bit. If you think you are going to use more than the 4GB free (1.7 taken by OS) then buy more RAM. Google search it pagefile = useless for 64bit with ram.

Remember that Arma2 is a 32bit program. It will never, never, ever, ever use more than 2GB. It can't. Even with all the mods added in. BIS has done a good job with getting all that data streaming in from the hard drive to constantly fill that 2GB. With the new beta it is getting better.

The SSD helps BIS with this as they are one of the fastest ways to contantly fill that 2GB. The ramdrive trick with 12GB+ is another.

Until BIS comes with a new 64 engine in which they can fill all that beautiful ram to their hearts content, then the SSD/ramdrive are your two options.

Sorry to say that, but your post is almost entirely incorrect.

[bangtail 0]

Sorry to say that, but your post is almost entirely incorrect.

I have to agree.

Certain programs require the paging file.

[Punisher5555 0]

Whatever. 32bit is 32bit. 2GB max.

Get a fast SSD or do the ramdrive trick.

[jpinard 10]

YOU DO NOT NEED A PAGE FILE WITH VISTA/WIN7 X64 WITH 6GB OR MORE RAM. Turn it off. It is useless for 64bit.

You are 100% wrong. Using a 64-bit OS has no bearing whatsoever on how software was programmed, and most software requires some use of a pagefile - not because it needs RAM but because of how their code is written. Please do not give people incorrect tech advice that will ultimately crash their computers.

[SgtStone 10]

[...]4. Sadly, I saw no difference in LOD thrashing with a RAM Drive. When your hardware is good, the LOD swaps you see are hardcoded. Sucks, I really wanted to see more detail at further distances. When running Benchmark #1 I have load trash on the pink building set and it's caused by the angle of view + distance. It's just at that perfect distance where the LOD has to switch from high to medium.[...]

When the camera moved closer to the village in benchmark 1 the buildings (and vehicles) popped up one after another in high detail.

As I flew over bigger cities or even just closed in by foot a few low detailed buildings flashed white/grey and then got the higher texture. That's really annoying and destroys all the immersion /realism.

Does a ramdrive/ssd solve this problem or do they just

reduce the stutter?

When I put structures.pbo and buildings2.pbo on a ramdrive, it didn't help much.

If I would move the pagefile to a ssd drive, would it increase speed/help?

Edited April 27, 2010 by SgtStone

[Leon86 13]

Whatever. 32bit is 32bit. 2GB max.

Get a fast SSD or do the ramdrive trick.

Because you've heard something about 32bit and 2GB doesn't mean you should post all kinds of nonsense.

A 32-bit operating system can address 4GB of real memory, that includes gpu, ram, etc. Windows allows up to 2GB of virtual memory per (non-laa flagged) 32-bit process. Virtual memory is the real memory + the page file. If you have a massive ammount of ram and an x64 OS and never run lots of programs at the same time you dont need a pagefile (I think, it's pretty much up to windows), but turning it off is pretty much useless unless you really need the harddisk space.

Turning the pagefile off in windows vista and 7 won't do anything that bad, if it's needed it will be created on the fly.

[sidhellfire 0]

Win7x64 takes roughly 1.7GB at idle.

Bullshit. Whenever you go idle, system is performing tasks like defragmenting harddrive etc.

This memory is set free for application use whenever is needed.

[Alex72 1]

My friends Win7x64 takes around 500MB idle, but mine take 1,2GB. Thats odd since i have only the system files running.

But anyway... Just installed RAMDISK and trying to get my head around how it works. Even the PDF is a bit cryptic to me as i dont get yet how the game will know to use the PBO's from RAM instead of from the ARMA2 folder. More reading and understanding needed on my part. Will post results when i "get it off the ground".

[WillaCHilla 10]

No problem for me to explain it to you Alex72, i think-pm me if you want any information about it-gave a tutorial to a buddy few days ago ;) (besides you need link shell extension to "bind" your ramdisk-data in your directory).

[Leon86 13]

No problem for me to explain it to you Alex72, i think-pm me if you want any information about it-gave a tutorial to a buddy few days ago ;) (besides you need link shell extension to "bind" your ramdisk-data in your directory).

You DONT need link shell extension, just copy (dont need to move because mods override vanilla) a bunch of .pbo's to a folder called AddOns on the ramdisk, start with -mod=R:\ provided the ramdisk is R

[Alex72 1]

Aha, thanks a lot guys! :)

A friend wondered (and me too actually) how RAMDISK works with whole programs. Like if you have to install the program into RAMDISK or if the installed program can just be copied up to RAMDISK and then started from there (send exe shortcut to desktop from RAMDISK)?

Edited April 29, 2010 by Alex72

[SgtStone 10]

What you can do is change the drive letter of the ramdisk like with any ordinary partition. If you have an application like arma2 installed on a separate drive you can move the drives contents over to the ramdisk, delete the drive and change the ramdisk drive letter so that it matches the former harddisk drive letter. You need to do that in order to keep all the links that are on the desktop and in the registry alive. You also can install a program on the ramdisk and let the ramdisk program create an image and let it load on every system startup. What you can't do is install your system on an ordinary ramdisk because the ramdisk gets loaded after system startup by a driver. There are special (expensive) hardware ramdisks (lots of ram on special board) you can buy that work different.

Edited April 29, 2010 by SgtStone

[ultimateflashpoint 10]

So I will get a decent performance boost, or at least a hell of a lot less stuttering, if I load all my mods and the vanilla pbo's onto a flash drive? If so I will definitely get one.:)

[Leon86 13]

What you can do is change the drive letter of the ramdisk like with any ordinary partition. If you have an application like arma2 installed on a separate drive you can move the drives contents over to the ramdisk, delete the drive and change the ramdisk drive letter so that it matches the former harddisk drive letter. You need to do that in order to keep all the links that are on the desktop and in the registry alive.

For arma 2 this is NOT needed, just copy .pbo's to a folder called AddOns on the ramdisk, and start with -mod="driveletter of ramdisk":\

When arma 2 starts it will now look for mods in the AddOns folder on the ramdisk and load them over the default content that's already loaded, so you dont even have to move the original files, copying them is enough.

[SgtStone 10]

@Leon86: that's right I just wanted to point out what you need to do if you want to move an entire application to a ramdrive. But how you can use arma's pbos as a mod has been covered like million times...

[zaira 10]

I have to agree.

Certain programs require the paging file.

As far as i know, and i have BC. sc. in electrical engineering and IT (but i am not programmer, still i passed alot of computer languages...c/c++ ARM 7 assembly VHDL, matlab and others...).

As programmer of windows apps u dont have acesss to RAM (physical).

U have access to virtual memmory, only windows have access to real ram adresses, so windows will at any moment in time determine how much space in real adresses they will allocate, and how much they will put in HD.

As far as i know when u program in any programing language win app u start your code from 0 adress space, and it is not real zero in physical ram (for any program or sub program), and then windows will put it at real physical memory adress that is free and that they see fit at the any point in time, or in PF.

I dont think you can chose to order windows where you will put your data (i mean order them to prefer RAM or PF).

For example, it is easy in c to use pointers and mess with adress space, and every n00b programer could crash windows, by adressing and using real RAM space where OS kernel IS.

Example: part of windows KERNEL code is on adress FFFAA1111, and n00b writes pointer in win app that meses with that adress. OS programers are not idiots, so they writed the kernel and memmory management, and u DONT have access to real adress space, becouse you could crash windows.

Maybe im wrong, but that is what i learned and i was told, and once again im not programmer

[Leon86 13]

@Leon86: that's right I just wanted to point out what you need to do if you want to move an entire application to a ramdrive. But how you can use arma's pbos as a mod has been covered like million times...

some people use the link shell extension method or something.

[Alex72 1]

I tested RAMDISK finally. And i used the "simple" method of just copy some of the PBO's to RAMDISK and then pointed to it with the -mod=X:\ parameter.

I have to say i was really impressed. Where i had micro stutter before when flying or driving fast (to load buildings etc) there was none. None. Didnt see a single stutter and i was looking hard. :)

So i have to say this really works - at least for me. We know all systems almost works differently so it wouldnt surprise me if this didnt work for some. But i'll keep using it for sure.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[johncage 30]

wow someone tell me bis is going to start using cache now. 100% streaming simply doesn't work on the average harddrive.

[Punisher5555 0]

wow someone tell me bis is going to start using cache now. 100% streaming simply doesn't work on the average harddrive.

Why not just have the next engine be 64bit and use all the RAM you have instead of "do this, do that, copy here, move there, read post from this or that forum, somebody said try this"?

I hope BIS will come out after Arma2:OA and tell use they are moving to a 64bit engine and will kick butt with it.

[MavericK96 0]

I tested RAMDISK finally. And i used the "simple" method of just copy some of the PBO's to RAMDISK and then pointed to it with the -mod=X:\ parameter.

I have to say i was really impressed. Where i had micro stutter before when flying or driving fast (to load buildings etc) there was none. None. Didnt see a single stutter and i was looking hard. :)

So i have to say this really works - at least for me. We know all systems almost works differently so it wouldnt surprise me if this didnt work for some. But i'll keep using it for sure.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Exactly what PBOs did you copy and what RAMdrive size did you use? I'm in the same boat as you with 6 GB RAM, and when I tried a 1.5-2 GB RAMdrive, I saw zero difference in stutter with the PBOs that I used, and it seemed to cause instability (more crashes, etc.) in the game when using the RAMdrive.

[Alex72 1]

Maverick:

I use 4GB for RAMDRIVE and i moved the files up recommended earlier in this thread. Buildings, Plants etc. Sorry im at work atm so i dont have time to find that page.

The difference is that when i move around there is no popping of objects. However i did have 2 BSOD's wich must been related to RAMDRIVE, and i also 2 times had an error say "Corrupted data" on ARMA start so i had to move up the files again. No crashes so far though.

Reading your other posts before ive seen you do have crashes pretty often. and maybe thats because you go too hard on the settings? I run 2500-3000VD and all settings on HIGH except terrain detail wich is on NORMAL, and post processing effects on LOW (still effects but less FPS chew). When i go above this i can also get CTD's. The games specs are a bit weird i know, and it takes time to find the sweet spot for your HW. ;)