PC Discussion Thread II - All PC related discussion goes here.

[vilas 473]

i am confused, i have seen test results (games and FPS) and it looks like Intel i5 is much more better, although difference in price is 40 Euro (i5, 2500 or 2400)

i heard about problems with bridge 1155

i am confused again what to do

i have now AMD 6000+, VGA GTS250, if i will buy new second PC as i stated above GTX460, AMD quadcore model 965 - will i see huge difference

if i will buy GTX 460 and i5 ?

[larsiano 12]

I think getting a better videocard will give you most boost. For example: I had a E8600 Duocore system and upgraded to i7 950 but i kept my old GTX285 everything is a bit smoother but the framerate is almost the same leaving no other choice but to get a faster card if i want more frames. The 460 is about the same speed as the 285 if im right. so at least get a 470 or 570 to keep you happy the next 1/2 years

[Derbysieger 11]

You're doing nothing wrong with AMD. For most games the graphicscard is more important.

At the moment Intel has problems with its sandy bridge mainboards so if you don't want to wait AMD might be the better option.

But if you can wait and you feel confident about overclocking your CPU in the future you should seriously consider Intel.

The special thing about Arma 2 is that it profits very much from a high clocked quadcore CPU. A quadcore at 3.8-4GHz works miracles for Arma 2 so you should always consider overclocking your CPU.

I build my own PC mainly for photo- and videoediting. Because of that I chose a Core i7 and a SSD over a (very) fast graphicscard. I didn't have overclocking in mind when I build the rig but when I got Arma 2 I suddenly felt the need to do it. The stock 2.67GHz weren't enough to run Arma 2 at an acceptable framerate with good graphicsettings and a high VD.

Especially a high viewdistance needs much CPU power.

In my experience Intel is way easier to OC but I only OC'ed one AMD CPU (Phenom II 955BE) so far. It might as well have been bad luck - who knows. Every time I wanted to go past 3.6GHz I got a bluescreen when I ran prime. I OC'ed 3 Intel CPUs (including my own) and never had any problems reaching at least 3.99GHz (my RAM doesn't allow me to go past a FSB of 190MHz...).

The GTX 460 is imho the best option with your budget. If you wanted anything faster without making compromises with the CPU, the Mainboard and (very, very bad idea) the PSU you need a higher budget.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Derbysieger

[vilas 473]

I think getting a better videocard will give you most boost. For example: I had a E8600 Duocore system and upgraded to i7 950 but i kept my old GTX285 everything is a bit smoother but the framerate is almost the same leaving no other choice but to get a faster card if i want more frames. The 460 is about the same speed as the 285 if im right. so at least get a 470 or 570 to keep you happy the next 1/2 years

but i live in Poland :P

not in Holland, i have no 1000 EUro for PC like you, i have half of it with big pain

my limit is 2200-2300 zł (1 PN - 0.25 EU, plus add that in our part of world prices are higher because of wholesallers and etc. card that costs 200 USD in US will cost 250 in PL, Canon 50D in US costed 700 USD while in Poland it costed 850 with usual salary as 500 USD, Windows XP BOX Pro costs ca 550 USD oposite to ca 300 in USA)

i cannot afford more than 3500 on PC with full set (monitor of matrix PVA needed to work in graphics, such monitor with PVA costs ca. 1200-1500 PLN)

i cant take cheap monitor because it has poor matrix for graphician/photographer (colors calibration etc.)

only PVA, S-PVA (ISPC are better but they have 20 ms. reaction, useless for gaming )

Derbysieger - so probably mainbgoard you told , plus Corsair 550 W ? plus AMD 3.4 GHZ (model 965) + 460GTX (probably Asus, of course i would like Cyclone MSI, i will check prices again)

i need PC quite now, cause in girl flat where we live, she has no PC (i left my PC in parents home because my mother need to work with office job on my PC)

Edited February 3, 2011 by vilas

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Hey Vilas, here are some CPU speed comparisons, according to this helpful (yet German) list: link

I7 980X Extreme - Speed 100% - Prize 900 Euro

I5 2500K - Speed 94 % - 200 Euro

AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE - Speed 72% - Prize: 140 Euro

so on first thought an I5 would offer far better performance for almost the same prize.

[NeMeSiS 11]

)rStrangelove;1848135']Hey Vilas' date=' here are some CPU speed comparisons, according to this helpful (yet German) list: link

I7 980X Extreme - Speed 100% - Prize 900 Euro

I5 2500K - Speed 94 % - 200 Euro

AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE - Speed 72% - Prize: 140 Euro

so on first thought an I5 would offer far better performance for almost the same prize.

I dont know about the latest motherboards, but they are generally significantly more expensive for Intel than for AMD, which should also be taken into account.

Still, the 2500K is a pretty good deal for what the performance it brings.

(PS. Why a 965? Just get a 955 and overclock it)

[Derbysieger 11]

Derbysieger - so probably mainbgoard you told , plus Corsair 550 W ? plus AMD 3.4 GHZ (model 965) + 460GTX (probably Asus, of course i would like Cyclone MSI, i will check prices again)

i need PC quite now, cause in girl flat where we live, she has no PC (i left my PC in parents home because my mother need to work with office job on my PC)

That sounds decent. Make sure the PSU has certification.

Do you have a case?

If you not already have, make a checklist with prizes.

What you need is basically:

- a case

- a PSU

- a Mainboard

- a CPU

- RAM

- a Graphicscard

- a HDD (SATA)

- a DVD drive (SATA)

- a monitor

- peripherals (mouse, keyboard, printer etc.)

- a screwdriver^^

€: yes intel MBs are usually more expensive than AMD ones.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Derbysieger

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Btw Intel says the fixed 1155 motherboards will be available end of February, so i guess everybody wanting a I5 2500K will have to wait until mid of March.

I have the same problem atm, wanted to buy yesterday, now MBs are out. :P GAH!

[vilas 473]

daaamn , surprise

maybe because of problems with 1155 there are only 2 mobos on this socket in shop !, prices are 500, 670 PLN :O (probably i won't wait till end of March to have 1155 in shops for less than 350 PLN)

monitor

http://www.agito.pl/monitory-lcd/nec-22-lcd-multisync-p221w-bk.0.339945.html?cid=54&attr=963-225470,142-106998,cena-1000+2000 (1560 :/ i wish cheaper, but S-PVA :(, i need such resolution as 1600*1050, i need size at least like now i have 19 (Samsung 971P) and only this has size as big as 19 inches 4:3 in height and PVA )

if there was cheaper PVA with big screen (bigger size of screen ) i would choose such (i don't need FullHD, for me 1600*1050 is enough, but i want this 30 cm in height at least to watch movies and photos together)

i will look for Samsung PVA too (22 inches, on their info-tele-line girl said "she has no idea" what a company info line , what she is doing there if she has no idea what is PVA and what is TFT :/ btw. )

my setup proposal:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2547/cheaps.jpg

what do you think (yet no HD inside 600 EU already :( and it is cheapest store in Poland, i must set myself in home from parts )

choosing i5 and mainboards that are available in shops i would have to give at least 300 PLN more (mainboard for 460 instead 360 and CPU for 720 ( Core i5 2500 )instead of 540 PLN)

there is a penty of 1156 maiboards but i heard that 1156 i5 is 10-20% weaker than 1155 i5 power, is it true ?

if it is not true than CPU Core i5 660 and ???

( http://www.agito.pl/podzespoly-pc/plyty-glowne/intel/socket-1156/79,1-1665,264-455691.html

or

http://www.agito.pl/podzespoly-pc/plyty-glowne/asus/socket-1156/79,1-8849,264-455691,946-47112,cena-+400.html

)

--------------

edition:

but looking at German test it sounds like AMD 965 is stronger than i5 660 (available for me in shop for 180 PLN more than AMD 965 is , so weaker and 180 PLN more expensive ?)

they write mATX, what is it ? is it normal box for PC ?

and i will not be using built-in i5 VGA, so probably all DVI and such like are useless for me ?

so if for month or two 1155 mainboards are not available for me ( 550 PLN, 670 PLN price) than it seems that for 2 months AMD is best choice (stronger than i5 660 and cheaper too)

Edited February 3, 2011 by vilas

[-)rStrangelove 0]

mATX is microATX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroATX

is compatible with ATX boxes. But since its smaller than normal ATX boards you have less card slots avaible.

Edited February 3, 2011 by ])rStrangelove

[Derbysieger 11]

mATX is for small PC-cases. It's not necessarily cheaper. Since you need the PC soon you should stay with AMD. I recommend you take this MB out of your list: http://www.agito.pl/plyty-glowne/asus-m4a87td-evo.0.401548.html?attr=1-8849,946-47112,cena-0+400 If you don't need USB 3.0 that is.

I still miss HDDs in your list. And unless you want to OC your CPU the cooler that comes with the CPU will do just fine.

Oh and you need an OS. Preferably 64Bit. Otherwise you can't use more than 3.5GB of your RAM

€: I'd love to have a gulftown CPU btw. Not because I need it... Just because I want it^^

But that will not be within my financial possibilities anytime soon.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Derbysieger

[vilas 473]

I still miss HDDs and a DVD writer in your list. And unless you want to OC your CPU the cooler that comes with the CPU will do just fine.

i am noise freak (if i would click near bed with noisy PC my woman would smash me go to bed, so who will make addons than ? )

i simply hate "helicopter sound" coming from noisy default cooler, i never keep box closed (i have it open for some reasons ) so noise from box would be annoying (small room, very near to me, i like music or radio playing not loud from loudspeakers so ... it must be as silent as it can be )

such extra cooler will give me almost silence (i have such on my AMD too and it is silent as it was not working from distance of 1 meter from me )

i have DVD , this :

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2547/cheaps.jpg

for 65 PLN, it is DVD-R (Blue Ray next year when it will go down under 150 )

yes, disc is now second problem

but i am thinking about monitor

i found cheaper PVA from Samsung, it has one problem

it is 24 inches full hd (oposite to NEC 1600 *1050)

will this set up will hold Arma2 with high details at 100% render and at least 30 FPS

i suppose that to hold 1600*1050 is for VGA much smaller effort than to hold 1920*1080 pixels

regarding HD i want to work following way:

one disc with OS (fast, small but with Arma), another with data (photos, music, personal things )

you told to choose 7200 rpm disc from Samsung

but Sata, e-Sata ?

seeing such table:

# SATA/300 (200)

# SATA/600 (15)

# USB 3.0 (33)

# FireWire 400 (3)

# FireWire 800 (9)

# eSATA (19)

i begin to feel stupid :D

probably i must click Sata 300 as it is most popular

Oh and you need an OS. Preferably 64Bit. Otherwise you can't use more than 3.5GB of your RAM

oooooooooooooooo i had no idea :(

so ... how will it work on one OEM i have ? :D

i have OEM to one part, as i don't change this part (in my work they are signed to box of PC, i know OEMs signed to sound blaster, DVDs, tablets - shops do it without single problem etc. if shop sell legally OEM even to speakers or box or tablet or mouse, i can change whole PC leaving speakers/tablet/mouse without problem ) , i thought it will work (XP SP2 OEM)

so how my PC would behave on 32-bit and 4 GB ram ? will be working but using 3.5 or won't start ?

Edited February 3, 2011 by vilas

[Derbysieger 11]

I saw that DVD writer too late. edited my post^^

Just normal SATA II that'll be SATA/300 out of your list xD

Make it a Spinpoint F3 320GB plus a Samsung EcoGreen F3 or a WD Caviar Green with 1TB or 2TB. There come enough SATA cables for a few HDDs and a DVD writer with your mainboard.

You shouldn't worry too much about performance on full HD. My graphicscard has significantly less performance than the one you are going to get. Only your viewdistance will probably be limited by your CPU. I managed to get 30fps with 10k VD and most details on high on takistan...

Edited February 3, 2011 by Derbysieger

[vilas 473]

i edited my post too , about OS, please use F5

i really had no idea about this 64 bit, it would change my plans a lot (OEM) 100 Euro more for OEM Home edition :(

Edited February 3, 2011 by vilas

[Derbysieger 11]

I wouldn't bother with OEM You are better off with the SB version. have a look at this (i know it's german but you get the idea): http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a458487.html

You can put 8GB RAM in your PC but you simply wouldn't be able to use it if you had 32Bit.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

1. Samsung HD problem

Not a problem, you can still play ArmA2 with 1600x1050 if you want. You can either set it to show you normal picture but with black bars on all sides (black bars fill it up to 1920x 1080) or zoom the picture up to 1920x1080 with black bars left and right.

2. Noisy PC problem

Dont leave it open. PC boxes are designed to push an airflow through specific areas in your pc to cool it. Leave it open and you're destroying that airflow.

Also, when you're doing Addons you are in 2D mode, so your PC will clock itself down and be quiet. :D Its only in Bulldozer / in ArmA2 where its going full speed 3D mode.

3. HD with OS & ArmA2

Bad idea. If you have 2 HDs, install ArmA2 on the 2nd HD, seperate from your OS. That way file operations will be done by 2 controllers (1 for OS HD, 1 for ArmA2 HD), boosting the overall speed. Having OS and ARmA2 on the same HD will produce heavy lags / stuttering when streaming island data.

4. 64bit for ArmA2

You dont need it. You're better off with a 32bit WinXp with 4GB RAM and install ArmA2 on an SSD.

Edited February 3, 2011 by ])rStrangelove

[Derbysieger 11]

)rStrangelove;1848189']1. Samsung HD problem

Not a problem' date=' you can still play ArmA2 with 1600x1050 if you want. You can either set it to show you normal picture but with black bars on all sides (black bars fill it up to 1920x 1080) or zoom the picture up to 1920x1080 with black bars left and right.

[/quote']

Or simply play in full HD? I mean 30fps schould really be no problem with settings.

3. HD with OS & ArmA2

Bad idea. If you have 2 HDs, install ArmA2 on the 2nd HD, seperate from your OS. That way file operations will be done by 2 controllers (1 for OS HD, 1 for ArmA2 HD), boosting the overall speed. Having OS and ARmA2 on the same HD will produce heavy lags / stuttering when streaming island data.

That I can't say anything about and it's also new to me^^ I have both on the same SSD - no problems at all. But it's also way faster than a normal HDD...

4. 64bit for ArmA2

You dont need it. You're better off with a 32bit WinXp with 4GB RAM and install ArmA2 on an SSD.

true for Arma2 but what is with other uses? I mean if you're working with programs like Photoshop you will eventually want to use more than 4GB. Just yesterday I pushed my PC with Digital Photo Professional to its limits. That program needs less RAM than Photoshop.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Derbysieger

[vilas 473]

77 Euro in Germany :(

boooo :(

look at Polish Microsoft prices (i dont want to start discussion about reasons of piracy across globe)

http://www.agito.pl/oprogramowanie/systemy-operacyjne/99.html

http://www.taniomania.pl/q/?q=Microsoft+OEM+Windows+XP+Professional+SP2b+Polish+1pk+DSP+OEI+CD+w%2FUpg+Cpn+%28E85-04935%29&sh=2492

divide by 4 to Euro

BOX in my country is 170 Euro :/

in "rich" countries Microsoft is much more cheaper than in "poor" countries

but i won't discuss it,

i use Open office, so i am not interested at any Ms products than OS :P

student license also not works for me, as i am 33

Edited February 3, 2011 by vilas

[-)rStrangelove 0]

That I can't say anything about and it's also new to me^^ I have both on the same SSD - no problems at all. But it's also way faster than a normal HDD...

Well i was talking about normal HDs of course. With an SSD you pretty much ready for anything.

[Derbysieger 11]

77 Euro in Germany :(

boooo :(

look at Polish Microsoft prices (i dont want to start discussion about reasons of piracy across globe)

http://www.agito.pl/oprogramowanie/systemy-operacyjne/99.html

http://www.taniomania.pl/q/?q=Microsoft+OEM+Windows+XP+Professional+SP2b+Polish+1pk+DSP+OEI+CD+w%2FUpg+Cpn+%28E85-04935%29&sh=2492

divide by 4 to Euro

BOX in my country is 170 Euro :/

in "rich" countries Microsoft is much more cheaper than in "poor" countries

but i won't discuss it,

i use Open office, so i am not interested at any Ms products than OS :P

student license also not works for me, as i am 33

whoa! those prizes are a shame!

It's your turn. Do you think you will use more than 4GB frequently?

I do it three or four times a week... Mostly because I'm too lazy to shut down all the programs I'm running xD.

€: or go to this webside http://hubblesite.org and look for the big 250-300MP pics. They're awesome and they will bring down every PC that doesn't have enough RAM :D

Edited February 3, 2011 by Derbysieger

[vilas 473]

])rStrangelove

1 ) i had no idea, super, thanx, i had no idea (i am not hardware expert at all , my knowledge stopped in 2002 or 2003 )

3) i had no idea (controllers, RAIDs etc. is black magic for me)

but at the moment i will afford buying only one HD (in half year i'll buy another)

http://www.agito.pl/podzespoly-pc/dyski-twarde/320-gb/sata300/7200/83,175-173371,182-169259,176-1257.html

?

[Derbysieger 11]

Hitachi deskstar (first in the list) or samsung spinpoint f4 I'd say at the first look.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Vilas, just do what IceBreaker did, make a new addon and put a huge DONATE! button next to the download link. Might get you another harddisk for your new pc. :D

[Derbysieger 11]

Maybe even a SSD wich would be a HUGE performance boost :D

€: this happens when I open a 24000x12000px .jpg file + some other programs.

Surprise surprise, RAM-usage at 5.2GB ...

Here you can get the big pic http://hubblesite.org/gallery/wall_murals/2-carina-color ;)

Edited February 3, 2011 by Derbysieger

[vilas 473]

whats are your opinions regarding C-PVA ? comparing to S-PVA ?

i havent found any test, anyone had occasion to test last Samsung LCDs with C-PVA ? (those 23 or 24 inches told to be 6 ms )