FP : DR - News & Discussion

[ProfTournesol 956]

And I dont seems to remember that bullets and shells are physics objects in DR enither, On the other hand do we really need to model every single bullet that flys out of the barrel?:confused:

you are correct that OFP dont have retreat thing, but there are in ARMA2 maybe a tweak of two on the FSM will make it more obviousily

My god, bullets and shells DO HAVE physics since OFP, and units DO retreat since OFP. They even look for vehicles with ammo supplies or armored as a retreat point.

But you can't see the actual bullet, and the ricochets are scripted (am i right?), whereas in DR the bullets run on the physics engine.

Why are you so stubborn ? YOU CAN SEE bullets and shells, you can even hear their flying noise. I'm sorry to know more than you on these games, but you could at least acknowledge your ignorance...

Edited October 4, 2009 by ProfTournesol

[space 10]

Phantom tank crews are not helping your case ,sorry.

I'm really worried about this 63 entity count thing. So how would you go about building a believable base for instance -empty vehicles also count as an entity- So once you left your base (saying you have 40 or so entities there) would you have to delete the base to make room for more entities on the map?

Yes it works on spawning and despawning. So really the 63 limit is just in whatever area you happen to be in at anytime. According to the editor guide the limit isn't actually fixed - 64 entities ia s guideline number, to make sure all missions work on the minimum recommended spec machines.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

They've confirmed that the console demo has been canceled and that the PC demo will come out after release, which is the complete truth.

what is the logic in that? afraid a real taste of the game will discourage buying the game?

charlatan

A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception.

[bangtail 0]

My god, bullets and shells DO HAVE physics since OFP, and units DO retreat since OFP. They even look for vehicles with ammo supplies or armored as a retreat point.

Not facts.

Facts are the enemy of DR and it's Army of shills.

Eth

[4 IN 1 0]

Phantom tank crews are not helping your case ,sorry.

I'm really worried about this 63 entity count thing. So how would you go about building a believable base for instance -empty vehicles also count as an entity- So once you left your base (saying you have 40 or so entities there) would you have to delete the base to make room for more entities on the map?

that also make me wonder how the hell do you got enought action around you to creat battle sound enought to make you feeling you are in the middle of a big battle when there is just only 64 units + objects

but then maybe the limit is only on the MP side?

[MehMan 0]

But you can't see the actual bullet, and the ricochets are scripted (am i right?), whereas in DR the bullets run on the physics engine.

Seeing the actual bullet? I'd love to see you do that in any game. You can assign a model to the bullet, that's not a problem. There's a tank shell mod somewhere, or at least

(as you can see, there's not much to see as the shell travels, but once it deflects off of armour, it slows down(also, the deflection was bumped way way up in that video for demonstration purpose, it was made to show that armour deflection was possible)). It's the only probable bullet you could possibly see, but even that's a bit of a tough one. And the richochets aren't scripted, pretty much dynamic and they run on the physics engine. They bounce just the same as in OFP: DR apparently. It's pretty cool too. And they bounce on water too,

Edited October 4, 2009 by MehMan

[Apache-Cobra 0]

My god, bullets and shells DO HAVE physics since OFP.

They have bullet drop. That's it. There wasn't even ricochet in OFP.

[Zipper5 74]

That's not a picture of VBS2 FLIR. Looks like greyscale once again. This is VBS2 FLIR.

http://img7.imageshost.ru/imgs/090802/5db77318e5/96924.jpg[/img

Hm, I'm pretty sure it is. It looks quite similar to that, just zoomed out further. That's obviously taken in one of VBS2's desert maps where the ground is just sand or a road and is radiating lots of heat. Zommed in, it looks like it's just a gray background.

[bangtail 0]

-Ziggy-;1454440']what is the logic in that? afraid a real taste of the game will discourage buying the game?

charlatan

As obvious as the nose on your face.

Eth

[maddogx 13]

I'm still pretty sure that you can't see bullets and shells in OFP and ArmA/2, nor are they modeled dynamically as physics objects.

Actually, every single bullet is a physics object. This becomes obvious when you use scripting. For example you can create particles along bullets flight paths and see how they penetrate thin objects and bounce off others. They can also be affected by scripting commands like setVelocity, just like any other object.

Edited October 4, 2009 by MadDogX

[froggyluv 2130]

Yes it works on spawning and despawning. So really the 63 limit is just in whatever area you happen to be in at anytime. According to the editor guide the limit isn't actually fixed - 64 entities ia s guideline number, to make sure all missions work on the minimum recommended spec machines.

This sounds pretty bad for mission makers though. So basically if I were to make a fully fledged base, I would have to keep the enemy spawn points quite far away, and what happens if the players need to return to base -are the enemies soldier positions/damage etc.. held in memory? Very confusing :confused:

[bangtail 0]

They have bullet drop. That's it. There wasn't even ricochet in OFP.

OFP is an almost 9 year old game that STILL has more features (and doesn't suffer from ridiculous restrictions) overall than DR so shaddup already.

Go back to the CM forums with the rest of the kiddies and stop trying to convince us that DR is the second coming.

You've already been refuted over and over and over again.

Cheers,

Eth

Edited October 4, 2009 by BangTail

[myshaak 0]

I expect ArmA2:OA's FLIR to be (at least a little) better than the VBS2 is.. ArmA2 runs on a slightly altered engine after all.. and eventhough this doesn't look bad at all...

[Zipper5 74]

They have bullet drop. That's it. There wasn't even ricochet in OFP.

Actually, it's quite evident that OFP had ricochet. If you were to take any weapon, go crouched and shoot at the ground enough times, you would eventually die from the bullets ricocheting and going into you. At least, I believe that's what it was, or maybe it was just a bug. Still possible if you use a weapon like a M107 in ArmA II.

[4 IN 1 0]

This sounds pretty bad for mission makers though. So basically if I were to make a fully fledged base, I would have to keep the enemy spawn points quite far away, and what happens if the players need to return to base -are the enemies soldier positions/damage etc.. held in memory? Very confusing :confused:

give up froggyluv, he is compare OFP:DR to the 8 yr old OFP:R

[space 10]

-Ziggy-;1454440']what is the logic in that? afraid a real taste of the game will discourage buying the game?

Is that why BIS postponed the release of the ArmA2 demo until after launch? I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had got to experienced the bugs and AI before I bought it.

[Cpt.Goose 10]

well you have about two days until you find out, The mission editor won't even be included for console users. So I'm sure Codemasters will take recommendations from the community if there is a real problem with mission building. It's not like the game doesn't come with any MP missions already or SP so they managed to do it, I'm sure you can to.

[4 IN 1 0]

Hm, I'm pretty sure it is. It looks quite similar to that, just zoomed out further. That's obviously taken in one of VBS2's desert maps where the ground is just sand or a road and is radiating lots of heat. Zommed in, it looks like it's just a gray background.

the funny thing is, even with the greyscale one, it still 100X more realistic then OFP:DR one

Is that why BIS postponed the release of the ArmA2 demo until after launch? I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had got to experienced the bugs and AI before I bought it.

thats why I personally dont say anything about this, yet, with all the resource that CM get they still have to postpone the demo make things slightly different

Edited October 4, 2009 by 4 IN 1

[jblackrupert 14]

More FLIR added to Arma II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_US5b_6E1I

oh and yes AI flee. I've witnessed them flee to vehicles, buildings and bunkers.

[Praelium 0]

Is that why BIS postponed the release of the ArmA2 demo until after launch? I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had got to experienced the bugs and AI before I bought it.

Maybe, when Arma II was released it did have a lot of bugs.

[Zipper5 74]

Is that why BIS postponed the release of the ArmA2 demo until after launch? I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had got to experienced the bugs and AI before I bought it.

I think BIS had to postpone the demo because working on fixing the game was taking up too much time to be concentrating on down-sizing the game and bug testing it as well so that they could use it for the demo. Not that they didn't want to drive away buyers, which it could have entirely likely done, but the biggest reason was because they were concentrating their efforts elsewhere.

The bugs are significantly less than they were at release now, and the AI is pretty fantastic 95% of the time. Highly improved over OFP and ArmA's AI. I have great ease now as a mission maker since I don't have to always be battling with them like I have been in the past.

[jblackrupert 14]

VBS2 FLIR Video

[froggyluv 2130]

give up froggyluv, he is compare OFP:DR to the 8 yr old OFP:R

But this still begs the question: What happens to the units you have previously engaged after you withdraw from an area? Are they basically saying that this is not a persistent battlefield?

[dm 9]

Seriously?

Ho hum... here we go again...

DR already provides an excellent base assuming modding is possible. With mods it could easily destroy ArmA in most aspects.

And modding support has not yet been 100% confirmed. I also fail to see how 275m tethered co-op in a 2x2km square box is going to destroy ArmA?

Some great features I can't wait to play around with...

-FLIR

Which is nothing like FLIR is in real life, and is not confirmed to have metabolism, heat up/cool down times, contrast influences acording to the sun, weapons heating up by being fired, people leaving footprints, vehicles leaving warm tyre tracks, different modes - white hot, black hot, orange hot, green hot etc etc... Currently their "FLIR" is nothing more than "make everything that moves white, and everything that doesnt grey"...

-Ballistics- Bullets are REAL objects, if you hit print screen fast enough you can see them

You mean the same way you can and have been able to do since OFP?

-Penetration- No hitpoints like ArmA, every area of every vehicle has an armor rating which a weapon must surpass in order to penetrate it

Which is 100% unconfirmed. It will be interesting to see what, if anything (considering how much else they dropped) is still left of this system. Oh, and for the record, ArmA2 does have a penetration system.

-As an addition to the above point, body armor is also simulated on troops and I think that helmets might also be accounted for

Will concede the point on that one, although aside from seeing some dudes helmet shot off, nothing has actually been 100% confirmed on that...

-Apparently functional AI that takes cover and is affected by and uses suppressive fire

You mean like ArmA2's does? And this same "functional" AI has also been reported by several sources to occasionally be as dumb as hats, and just sit there waiting for you to shoot it...

-Real vehicle suspension and handling unlike ArmA where you are driving a slab of concrete on rollerskates, dynamic helicopter rotor-lift effects from moving the collective up and down

I'm sorry, I guess I must have just been imagining seeing the suspension of vehicles moving since OFP. Also, several reviews have commented on the vehicle physics as being "wooly" so the jury is still out on that...

-AI morale system- retreating, hiding and crying, etc.

Retreating has been confirmed - ArmA2's will do that given the right circumstances too. As for hiding, crying etc, nothing has been confirmed.

-Gore system- limb loss, dynamic blood textures on troops, other various effects such as part of a head getting blown off, your chest getting gutted, etc.

Total limb loss has yet to be confirmed - the guy who I quoted earlier said that even after pounding some dudes with 105mm artillery, they were just crumpled heaps, but all in one bit. Stomach and head wounds have been confirmed however.

-Optimized engine, runs well on average PCs, no random lockups or memory leaks

Which also limits you to 63 ai (including vehicles) and a 2x2km play area for mp. Again, its not optimised, its cut-down.

-According to a bunch of reviews and opinions from others who have played the game, the sound system is amazing and immersive.

I'll give you that one, although I find ArmA2's sound system to be equally awesome and immersive...

-LUA scripting and well documented mission editor, so mission makers don't need to learn on their own and document things themselves

I dont get the fus about LUA, afterall its just another language, no more or less powerful that sqs/f. As for documented, that is yet to be seen (AFAIK)

-Just overall more professional, CM is a professional game developer with lots of resources and money whereas BI is more like a group of people.

They have a bigger budget, thats for sure. But I dont think I'd go as far to call either side "professional"

But you can't see the actual bullet, and the ricochets are scripted (am i right?), whereas in DR the bullets run on the physics engine.

1. No you're not right.

2. If they dont run on physics, what DO they run on? Magical fariy dust?

Jesus, this thread is full of so much derp... to start with it was amusing, now its just down right dull...

[bangtail 0]

Is that why BIS postponed the release of the ArmA2 demo until after launch? I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had got to experienced the bugs and AI before I bought it.

See, for myself, I would never EVER sign up at a forum to go on and on about how great the competition is.

If you think DR is going to be your game, then why are you here exactly? I mean you only signed up to go on and on about DR and your efforts would be better served over at the CM forums tbh.

You're not going to convince anyone here.

As many of us have stated previously, we were excited about DR but now, after learning of the restrictions etc, we aren't.

Pretty simple really, this is the BIS forum and I suspect alot of us have been around since OFP. I'll be the first to admit that all the games that BIS have released have had their share of problems etc. I don't think anyone here would debate that.

DR is what it is. Competition for MW2, BF et al (MW2 will doubtless win that particular competition tbh). It can't even be compared to OFP due to the restrictions it has.

Personally, I won't be buying it but I have nothing against anyone who does. I do however, object to this constant stream of misinformation (and flat out lies) that appear here on a daily basis.

If you like DR, great. Conversely, this probably isn't the best place if you are looking for like minded individuals.

/rant off

Eth

Edited October 4, 2009 by BangTail