FP : DR - News & Discussion

[bangtail 0]

Golden rule of debating... respect your opponent... I won't even bother talking to you anymore, but perhaps if someone else asks me respectfully to share what I think about those "facts", I'll bite.

Yup, yet again you avoid the issue and attempt to go off topic with something about respect. I have no respect for people like you. Respect is earned.

If you'd posted with respect (and not some badly researched nonsense) towards A2 and it's community, you probably wouldn't find yourself eviscerated by the facts.

Only a few more days and hopefully we won't be seeing your misinformed *** again.

Eth

PS : What you think is of little consequence judging by what you've said so far.

Edited October 4, 2009 by BangTail

[thesun 14]

Ok, fair enough, i'll still believe that those two "features" are there only once i see them. The fact someone writes about them is just not good enough for me.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Odd, I have been playing OFP and ArmA/2 since each of their releases, and I can't agree with either of these statements.

My bad, i've been modding since 2005 so i'm perfectly knowing what i'm talking about. The bullet thing is a very well known fact, the morale was roughly simulated in OFP, groups being weakened are retreating then attacking again then retreating then... refusing to obey anymore. It's greatly enhanced now, adding some surrendering possibilities etc.

[space 10]

Ok, fair enough, i'll still believe that those two "features" are there only once i see them. The fact someone writes about them is just not good enough for me.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt26/Arma2vsFlashpoint2/gore.gif

Edited October 4, 2009 by Rellikki
Posted image > 100kb

[Ulysses 10]

Last one goes by too fast for me to notice, but not sure there's dismemberment in there, gaping wounds sure.

[bangtail 0]

The dying animations are pretty good but the FLIR is like "predator vision" (as in the 7 foot tall alien that hunts people and not the drone). It's totally unrealistic.

Further, using gore as a selling point is plain stupid. Age of Conan tried to do that and look where it is now. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to include it, but it's not going to make or break the game (unless you're a 14 year old smacktard who gets off on that kind of thing).

Eth

Edited October 4, 2009 by BangTail

[4 IN 1 0]

How is it better, exactly?

It is basicly the same as

one and from

(2:55 ish) it comfirm that both are pretty much the same, that is of cause if BI are willingly to keep it

and dismemberment are pretty much more of a eye candy then game play affecting thing, which i just dont care about(and dont forget those body will just disappear after X secound), and I dont think I really need to go into the realistic bit of that

Edited October 4, 2009 by 4 IN 1

[Herbal Influence 10]

That 63 entities limit is really a bitch. For example all those new features DR AI has will work great in the campaign but it will be of little use for the player after he finishes the campaign. If you are limited to a max of 30 AIs per side in the editor then its better to go online and play against 30 real player instead of 30 AI. At least that why I use the editor in ARMA2, I like big battles.

But as there will be no possibility to use a server other than the gamers own PCs it is simply ok. That there will be no server hosting ... has been said far above - I believe it to be true.

And without that DR is simply not in reach of beating AA2 for me.

[jblackrupert 14]

How is it better, exactly?

Maybe you should watch some videos of REAL FLIR being used.

OFP2's FLIR looks nothing like the real thing

in fact it looks more like someone using a cheat then anything.

Oh and Arma II has FLIR. not the base game but user created

addon that actually looks very close to the real thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0lipEhEgDY

The thing about Arma is, if something is missing we add it ourselves.

Vehicles, buildings, soldiers, aircraft, islands......

Ohh lookie... Sopwith Camels! http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7285

Edited October 4, 2009 by jblackrupert

[Apache-Cobra 0]

My bad, i've been modding since 2005 so i'm perfectly knowing what i'm talking about. The bullet thing is a very well known fact, the morale was roughly simulated in OFP, groups being weakened are retreating then attacking again then retreating then... refusing to obey anymore. It's greatly enhanced now, adding some surrendering possibilities etc.

I'm still pretty sure that you can't see bullets and shells in OFP and ArmA/2, nor are they modeled dynamically as physics objects (i.e. a barrel in Half Life 2). And I'm not sure what you're talking about with the retreating thing. In the years I've played the AI stood their ground and fought till death. I still think DR is better in these two aspects.

Maybe you should watch some videos of REAL FLIR being used.

OFP2's FLIR looks nothing like the real thing

in fact it looks more like someone using a cheat then anything.

Oh and Arma II has FLIR. not the base game but user created

addon that actually looks very close to the real thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0lipEhEgDY

The thing about Arma is, if something is missing we add it ourselves.

Vehicles, buildings, soldiers, aircraft, islands...

I've seen my fair share of FLIR, thanks. It's not perfect but it does look damn good and is fully functional.

And that ArmA video is just a greyscale effect applied to the game with some video edits.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Apache-Cobra

[thesun 14]

@Space

Dismemberment does mean you can halve soldier's body after an artillery hit (for example). What you've shown is not a dismemberment, i can actually see this done in ArmA with a bit more modelling, use of hiddenSelections and eventHandlers.

[bangtail 0]

Maybe you should watch some videos of REAL FLIR being used.

OFP2's FLIR looks nothing like the real thing

in fact it looks more like someone using a cheat then anything.

Oh and Arma II has FLIR. not the base game but user created

addon that actually looks very close to the real thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0lipEhEgDY

The thing about Arma is, if something is missing we add it ourselves.

Vehicles, buildings, soldiers, aircraft, islands...

And Apache Cobra is supposedly a "military expert" according to his sig.

If he thinks thats what FLIR looks like IRL, I don't think he's much of a military expert.

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

I'm still pretty sure that you can't see bullets and shells in OFP and ArmA/2, nor are they modeled dynamically as physics objects (i.e. a barrel in Half Life 2). And I'm not sure what you're talking about with the retreating thing. In the years I've played the AI stood their ground and fought till death. I still think DR is better in these two aspects.

"You think" is entirely subjective and nowhere close to fact. The AI retreated in OFP. I remember chasing 2 guys half way across the map after their squad lost the firefight.

Edited October 4, 2009 by BangTail

[ZombieWolf 10]

It's been confirmed time and time again by Codemasters

They've "confirmed" a lot of things. Like a demo...

I guess you'll have to trust CM's word on that.

?

??

Seriously?

Is that you, viiiper?

[myshaak 0]

How is it better, exactly?

How? Like that.. Only the parts that actually ARE hot will glow.. meaning, certainly not some random piece of equipment hanging down the soldier's backpack (like DR). The same goes for vehicles, only the parts that are hot will glow (engine, etc)... and of course, only when the vehicle is running. Most likely the environment too, but I haven't seen it/can't prove it...

EDIT: Here you can see a small example of what I was talking about (3:30), it comes from a yesterday's report on how the work on ArmA2:OA is going:

But on a different subject, to quote Helios from the CM forums...

* You can set up vehicles such as tanks with "virtual crews" so that the tank and "virtual crew" are classed as just one entity eg. a vehicle with no observable units mounted like the tanks can have a virtual crew which only counts as 1 entity and has the effect of a driver/commander/gunner combination

Tanks with virtual crew? Really? Remote controlled tanks wouldn't sound that fancy, would it? So, in theory, you could have 3 of those tanks in your team.. all of those tanks are out of ammo, nowhere to rearm and you still need to conquer another objective.. but you couldn't order the crewmen to get out of thei vehicles to continue on foot... because there are no crewmen? Can you say "cheap fake?"

Edited October 4, 2009 by Myshaak

[Apache-Cobra 0]

They've "confirmed" a lot of things. Like a demo...

?

??

Seriously?

Is that you, viiiper?

They've confirmed that the console demo has been canceled and that the PC demo will come out after release, which is the complete truth. My point was they confirmed these features after the game was already in gold status, so chances are they are in the game.

How? Like that.. Only the parts that actually ARE hot will glow.. meaning, certainly not some random piece of equipment hanging down the soldier's backpack (like DR). The same goes for vehicles, only the parts that are hot will glow (engine, etc)... and of course, only when the vehicle is running. Most likely the environment too, but I haven't seen it/can't prove it...

True. However, on the subject of the soldier's backpack, clothing and gear does not completely block infrared radiation when it is so close to a warm body, so it makes sense for it to be glowing hot as well (to a degree). It hasn't been confirmed yet whether vehicles with the engine off show up as a hot spot on FLIR, but I would think that CM had thought of that.

Tanks with virtual crew? Really? Remote controlled tanks wouldn't sound that fancy, would it? So, in theory, you could have 3 of those tanks in your team.. all of those tanks are out of ammo, nowhere to rearm and you still need to conquer another objective.. but you couldn't order the crewmen to get out of thei vehicles to continue on foot... because there are no crewmen? Can you say "cheap fake?"

I'll take a "remote control" tank and 2 extra infantry over a tank with crewmen. That IS a shame, though.

By the way, Zipper5's post below mine reminds me to mention the physics and ragdoll in DR.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Apache-Cobra

[Zipper5 74]

Seriously, why did they make it so fast? The only thing I can see in there is the red mist, and the hole in the guy's side. Otherwise it's all too fast for me to actually see anything, and too small.

Though it is cool to have dismemberment like that, it's not really that necessary. It's mostly eye candy. Granted, people have asked for that to be in BIS' games in the past due to immersion improvements, but I myself haven't viewed it as a necessary inclusion.

Edited October 4, 2009 by W0lle
quoted image

[space 10]

Myshaak, in real life if three Abrams crews ran out of ammo, do you think they would be ordered to leave their tanks where they were, and get out to help with an infantry advance. Please tell us more of these realism features - Im very interested in them.

[MehMan 0]

I'm still pretty sure that you can't see bullets and shells in OFP and ArmA/2, nor are they modeled dynamically as physics objects (i.e. a barrel in Half Life 2). And I'm not sure what you're talking about with the retreating thing. In the years I've played the AI stood their ground and fought till death. I still think DR is better in these two

Bullets have dynamics, you can attach a camera to a bullet and you can follow it's flight path. Just find some cam scripts, really cool too.

The AI thing is just a simple command that wasn't used a lot and I don't know why, it's called allowFleeing. It's a setting from 0 to 1 and it's very awsome, but not used extensivly enough. The AI will retreat and attack again sometimes they'll retreat and if you pop a round in their general direction they'll start fleeing again. A really cool command, but it just isn't used enough.

Still, haven't seen any morale system in the OFP: DR videos. Remember, it's all very objective.

And that ArmA video is just a greyscale effect applied to the game with some video edits.

Nah, I think it's just a pimped version of the UAV FLIR. It's very basic, and thus rather useless.

@Dismemberment, can't see any. Or any gore. Expect blood splatter, that doesn't even stick to walls. And ArmA2 can do blood like that too, not the splatter, but just the bloodied bodies. So not very new. Next is the missing body chuncks, run ArmA with blood on high(yes, there's a difference) and shoot something in the eye. You can take out half thier face. So it has gore.

Besides, gore isn't as important a feature as is a 2x2km box(I think it's hardcoded). or a 275m coop(this is hardcoded) tether.

Edited October 4, 2009 by MehMan

[bangtail 0]

I've seen my fair share of FLIR, thanks. It's not perfect but it does look damn good and is fully functional.

And that ArmA video is just a greyscale effect applied to the game with some video edits.

Typical fanboy response.

A concession that it's not accurate but don't worry, because regardless, it's "DAMN GOOD" (Not sure what that entirely subjective comment means).

These clowns are hilarious but I wish they'd restrict their rabid fanboy activity to the CM forums.

Eth

[myshaak 0]

Myshaak, in real life if three Abrams crews ran out of ammo, do you think they would be ordered to leave their tanks where they were, and get out to help with an infantry advance. Please tell us more of these realism features - Im very interested in them.

The words "In theory" doesn't mean anything to you? If you want to really want to start a realisim vs fiction fight, do you really believe DR is the best candidate to back?

[4 IN 1 0]

I'm still pretty sure that you can't see bullets and shells in OFP and ArmA/2, nor are they modeled dynamically as physics objects (i.e. a barrel in Half Life 2). And I'm not sure what you're talking about with the retreating thing. In the years I've played the AI stood their ground and fought till death. I still think DR is better in these two aspects.

I've seen my fair share of FLIR, thanks. It's not perfect but it does look damn good and is fully functional.

And I dont seems to remember that bullets and shells are physics objects in DR enither, On the other hand do we really need to model every single bullet that flys out of the barrel?:confused:

you are correct that OFP dont have retreat thing, but there are in ARMA2 maybe a tweak of two on the FSM will make it more obviousily

and since you seems to not to be bother with watch VBS2 and ARMA2:AH video, I think i can skip comment on these aspect from you

Edited October 4, 2009 by 4 IN 1

[froggyluv 2130]

Myshaak, in real life if three Abrams crews ran out of ammo, do you think they would be ordered to leave their tanks where they were, and get out to help with an infantry advance. Please tell us more of these realism features - Im very interested in them.

Phantom tank crews are not helping your case ,sorry.

I'm really worried about this 63 entity count thing. So how would you go about building a believable base for instance -empty vehicles also count as an entity- So once you left your base (saying you have 40 or so entities there) would you have to delete the base to make room for more entities on the map?

[Zipper5 74]

Just to prove that DR's FLIR isn't at all realistic:

Real life FLIR:

VBS2 FLIR:

Dragon Rising FLIR:

Notice how everything other than the soldiers appears to have no heat at all, yet in VBS2, and real life for that matter, there is almost no black at all, just varying shades of gray.

[bangtail 0]

But Zipper, DR's FLIR looks "DAMN GOOD" and is "FULLY FUNCTIONAL".

A military expert told me so :D

[Apache-Cobra 0]

Bullets have dynamics, you can attach a camera to a bullet and you can follow it's flight path. Just find some cam scripts, really cool too.

But you can't see the actual bullet, and the ricochets are scripted (am i right?), whereas in DR the bullets run on the physics engine.

EDIT: That's not a picture of VBS2 FLIR. Looks like greyscale once again. This is VBS2 FLIR.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Apache-Cobra