FAFw - Forces Armées Françaises Workshop

[4 IN 1 0]

The real problem that FAFw rise (if i have understood) is the fact that they have created models from scratch. These models belong to BI (cause of licence, use of 02) and BI/Vbs can sell it for military purposes without giving anything to the original creator (BI plz tell me if they r wrong).

And this would be the same for all modders team, who create free stuffs which can be used by VBS to make money by selling to Armies without retributing to original creators.

I m not accusing BI/VBS, i m just telling what i ve understood from the FAFw team . Plz light me up if i m wrong. I hope i didn t transform the speech from FAfw, if it s the case sry.

I dont think BI would be stupid enought to use these content without permission, there is content that have made its way into VBS but AFAIK they all get proper permission, which leaves us a question: How and where do DGA get those models and textures in question?

As SoldierIsNotHistory told us there is a leak from their FTP by some fomer OFrP member who seems to use them as his own work(shame on him if so), which might lead to the content being sold to BIA, we have no idea if BIA know this(and if a lawsuit is ever raised against BI they will be the less likely to be loss in this case), and both SoldierIsNotHistory and BI have no way to prove it as all content is lose after the expo(AFAIK that quite common in software business if the company is playing honest), so in the end of the day there is no way for both side to clarify themself.

My through? both BI and FAFw have been rip off by some cheapass mother fXXXer who make money with the thing that was stolen from, and BI might dont even know it(while if they care is out of my scope, and AFAIK there really is little BI can do even if they care, I mean, why would you need to pay twice for something?), now the damage is done and people are throwing stone to each other while the one who really should be stoned to death are watching this thread laughing his fXXXing ass off.

Anyway I dont think anyone here really understand(or care) what I mean.

EDIT: What RKSL said, sorry, i forget that part:(

Edited January 16, 2010 by 4 IN 1
Correction of information

[rksl-rock 1300]

While BI do hold the copyright of the model to be used only on BI software,

I dont know how often this needs to be repeated:

BIS do NOT own our models. They never have and unless you sell them the rights they never will.

Don't beleive me read what Placebo said some years ago:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=44973

Please dont repeat myths and opinions as fact when they are not.

[soul_assassin 1750]

Following the explanations of renaud...

(click on pictures for bigger res)

Above a picture from the beginning of a video shown at the exercise “Phoenix 2008†(october 2008); it

clearly shows the use of soldiers and a rifle FA-MAS from lodu (released under ArmA Armed Assault).

Addons lent by lodu had a time limitation : until february 2009.

Quote Peter Morrion (boss of BIA=snYpir) :

"and following these two events we destroyed all copies of the French content"

So how could we explain this document below dated march 28th 2009?

It's a copy of a document from BIA, in which appears a draft agreement between the

DGA (Direction Générale de l'Armement, French government) and BIA to buy french

contents.

French contents from those who had been employed at Eurosatory 2008 (work from lodu), august 2008.

All under the label “French VBS2 vehicle and unitâ€.

Are you still wondering why FAFw is down ?

This is quite disturbing indeed. And since the VBS2 community is closed off to those who do not own it, it is quite possible that other addons have made it over?

Edited January 16, 2010 by W0lle
quoted images

[evion 10]

wow, thats, wow.

You get the impression that BIS as mother comanpy of BIA haven't the control over BIA and the things which are going on there.

BIA have grown a life of its own ?

Disturbing, right Soul_Assassin.

The fact is that, BIS Games and simulators lived of the community content and its heads, especially VBS, also if it was sold by the creators.

But now it become a dangerous way if the community don't know what is used by them without "permission".

If its possible to use ArmA2 Addons in VBS2, how is the licence agreement about the useage of community created addons in VBS2?

Is there a basis for ?

Edited January 16, 2010 by evion

[4 IN 1 0]

wow, thats, wow.

You get the impression that BIS as mother comanpy of BIA haven't the control over BIA and the things which are going on there.

BIA have grown a life of its own ?

Disturbing, right Soul_Assassin.

The fact is that, BIS Games and simulators lived of the community content and its heads, especially VBS, also if it was sold by the creators.

But now it become a dangerous way if the community don't know what is used by them without "permission".

If its possible to use ArmA2 Addons in VBS2, how is the licence agreement about the useage of community created addons in VBS2?

Is there a basis for ?

maybe you should try to read into the thread and see what people have said then try to "digest" it a little bit so that it make sence?

[Dwarden 1125]

most of what i see in this thread and in the french forum are pure speculations ...

all fueled by bulvar style 'accusations' of BIA / BI

for example well what does that invoice says ?

there there was new contract after the 2008 era ... as the original lend one expired

but what units, where and when were produced , if they were produced at all ...

that's completely another story and most likely unrelated to original one ...

then

there is rest of the pdf document from Lodu with his comments

where he obviously fail to understood what is HLA/DIS (in short allows interoperability of multiple different standalone simulator engines)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Level_Architecture_(simulation)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Interactive_Simulation

and seems like he misunderstood most of the slides about pro simulations or evolution of the project...

same goes about the urban myth

'you loose rights for Your IP in mods and Your mods will be used w/o Your approval' etc.

for truth read http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=44973

sometimes i must wonder where people left basic logic, common sense and if they don't understood the problem

why they not use google or consult with person skilled on Intellectual Property issues, laws and so on ...

sure Sarmat team done wrong thing

(question is was it 'steal' on purpose or just i don't care / failed to ask for approval attitude or misunderstood previous approvals)

yet they removed the FAFW data in questions (sure formal apology would be nice also)

so this don't fall into typical mod steal and don't care doctrine else right ?

maybe it's time people STOP and put deeper though about what the hell is this all buzz about ...

so if I may put in my two cents , take walk outside, get deep breath and some fresh ideas ...

Edited January 16, 2010 by Dwarden

[Drongo69 117]

for example well what does that invoice says ?

there there was new contract after the 2008 era ... as the original lend one expired

but what units, where and when were produced , if they were produced at all ...

I would very much like to see this answered in public. Surely BIS/BIA can confirm or deny the relationship between the invoice and addons in question.

[SoldierIsNotHistory 0]

My god...

Are you so blind to see that LODU's models are used after their expiracy? If you are not able to recognize this soldier is the same in both screen, i can't help you anymore...

I add that these screen was not given to us by BI, but we have some contacts ready to send hidden things that appens, just to prove that this story smell like shit...

And the fact Maruk and Snipyr are talking about us as if we are liars made me laughin. With their moderators trying to push their opinion.

I really want to be a little bug to see what happens in private BI forum, with BI team saying how to deals with this topic to moderator team

Ps: maybe we can add that the VAB on screen is used without permission, but some guys will going yo say: "oh SoldierIsnotHistory, you are paranoid! BIS/BIA never stole anything, and the only way FAFw is getting to put thousand hours work to trash is just that they paranoid..."

[Simon C 0]

I really want to be a little bug to see what happens in private BI forum, with BI team saying how to deals with this topic to moderator team

So, in essence, you've just managed to prove you're trying to cause trouble in this sentence. Perhaps if you were a little more civilised (or at all for that matter) in dealing with this matter, then people would not be so quick to doubt your word.

Plus, I'm still waiting to see a screenshot of LODU's work, so that I can compare it to what is in the VBS2 screenshots.

EDIT: Also, why only bring this situation up now? Why not back when it happened?

Edited January 16, 2010 by Simon C

[manzilla 1]

Hey guys, this is a tragedy whatever is going on. Have you contacted legal representation?

I know this may not be the best place to bring this up, I apologize, but if there is a grievance against BIS/BIA that is the best and honestly the only way to handle this. I'm really surprised that with a grievance aired, either party involved would be posting anything about this on public forums. Lawyers would be sh&^%$ bricks!

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to fan a flame here, just trying to provide a little advice. If this really is true, I will not pick sides, you guys should really stay off the forums(or any private/public communications like forums for that matter) and lawyer up. If there really is IP issues at stake, especially involving a corporate entity possibly profiting off of said IP, then there's a big case here for you guys.

I wish everyone involved the best. It's a shame this came up all.

[sanctuary 19]

Plus, I'm still waiting to see a screenshot of LODU's work, so that I can compare it to what is in the VBS2 screenshots.

Those soldiers are LODU's work, there is absolutely no doubt, as they got permission to use it at this demonstration from LODU :

As Managing Director of BIA, and the person ultimately responsible for VBS2, I can assure you all that BIA did not ‘steal’ any French add-ons. BIA received permission to exhibit certain French content at the French trade show Eurosatory 08 and during Phoenix 2008 experimentation

The problem, along the TMB guy using their stuff to try to get vbs2 into the french army after that and that seems toy work with BIA, is what happens after :

Addons lent by lodu had a time limitation : until february 2009.

Quote Peter Morrion (boss of BIA=snYpir) :

"and following these two events we destroyed all copies of the French content"

So how could we explain this document below dated march 28th 2009?

[mg]http://www.fileupyours.com/files/244613/image3m.jpg[/img]

Those are very disturbing revelations.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Sanctuary

[whisper 0]

most of what i see in this thread and in the french forum are pure speculations ...

Because he mixed some things up in the heat of.. well, simply his anger, then we should get over the facts.

How come BIA is presenting documents listing content that they should have deleted from their HDD months ago, to french Govt.?

Because Lodu doesn't present this correctly for you, we should close our eyes?

Or perhaps is he rightfully angry.

You know, I was one of the few back then in the OFrP team pushing them for a deal with BIA, even though I couldn't be really involved by that time.

In the end, the answer had clearly been that the team was not willing to do some professional stuff. By that time, I thought this was probably an error, but in the light of current events, I begin to see my wrongs, seriously.

What happened that made BIA think they could make a deal using Eurosatory models?

[clawhammer 10]

Hm... when i release an addon and i say in my credits and addonposting that i dont not want that my addon get portet to VBS1/2 or to be used and sometimes i see screens were Bi Or someone else shows my addon in VBS1/2 running, whats my protection?

[karax 0]

Unfortunalty for you that's looks like a no copyright area.

[evion 10]

I really want to be a little bug to see what happens in private BI forum, with BI team saying how to deals with this topic to moderator team

I see the key coming.

Ouch...

@clawhammer,

you get it. ;)

[karax 0]

If they close that could be a proof for some of us. One more in fact.

[Renaud 0]

Snypir, Maruk...

I think that WE NEED A FUC**** EXPLANATION about that case.

NOW !!!!!

It's a crysis time.... SO !?!?

French Community and other people NEED THAT !

Edited January 16, 2010 by Renaud

[Zipper5 74]

Crisis is spelled with an I. Crysis is a game. ;)

I'm sure someone official from BIS will respond to this and do their best to rectify any wrongdoings.

[rellikki 7]

Renaud, no need to be so aggressive, please.

[karax 0]

Renaud, no need to be so aggressive, please.

Just need a explanation, plz

[Simon C 0]

Just need a explanation, plz

You really have an attitude problem with BI don't you? :rolleyes:

[Renaud 0]

Renaud, no need to be so aggressive, please.

+ : "You have received an infraction at Bohemia Interactive Forums"

Dear Rellikki excuse me.

I didn't wanted to be so irrespectful (?) with my words.

It's just that.... mmmhhhh..... just what?

Ah, yes :

OFrP closed.

FAFw closed.

ArmA-Fr closed.

Bye bye.

But it's nothing, isn't it?

I just lost all interest with Arma, so no problem : I go away too.

Not a great loss, certainly.

Ciao.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Renaud

[karax 0]

+ : "You have received an infraction at Bohemia Interactive Forums"

Dear Rellikki excuse me.

I didn't wanted to be so irrespectful (?) with my words.

It's just that.... mmmhhhh..... just what?

Ah, yes :

But it's nothing, isn't it?

Ciao.

French people is so quite but when it's too strong for him, a french man can become a lit bit aggresive.

Other words to find an explanation

Disappointment

Sadness

Anger

And so on...

[WhiteMoon 10]

Perhaps you're right ;)

But if Renaud has to remain calm and respectfull, his reaction may be shows how frustrated some people feels about all of this (but it's not an excuse, it's just to focus where it hurts).

[rellikki 7]

Just need a explanation, plz

Forum rules. Now, no more discussion on how the forum is moderated. I understand your frustation and I'm also concerned about the situation, but please, try to control your temper. I'm sure this situation will be solved eventually.