The USMC needs a physical fitness program...

[Uranium-235 10]

Reading comprehension is not your strongest suit. I said run for 1000m with a heavy load and then immediately try to shoot, not simply shoot with a heavy load.

Really? How about the part where I've pointed out the act of DROPPING PRONE can cause absurd levels of fatigue, probably about three times now?

-Didn't say that.

-Didn't say that.

-Didn't say that.

So when someone points out the running speed is broke, and you respond that it "Doesn't need fixing", what exactly is that saying?

[fitzee 7]

Really? How about the part where I've pointed out the act of DROPPING PRONE can cause absurd levels of fatigue, probably about three times now?

Really? I just fired up the editor, switched to sights then dropped to the ground. My character took one deep breath which didnt effect aiming at all. Im pretty sure I'd need to take a deep breath to replace the air I lose dropping like that as well(even without 80+ pounds of gear).

Now that was from a fresh start, obviously the longer you carry that weight around will make it worse. As well as climbing up from prone with the extra weight without normal use of your arms from holding the rifle.

I like the fatigue system. Is it perfect? Of course not, but its better than any other shooter im willing to play.

[TimRiceSE 10]

Really? How about the part where I've pointed out the act of DROPPING PRONE can cause absurd levels of fatigue, probably about three times now?

Youre making shit up.

[galzohar 31]

Obviously a disagree considering my wording for incorrect. A direct shot from a 7.62 round on a e-sappi will not penetrate. They are designed for resistance up to 7.62 and are marked as such on the plates.

So you're agreeing, you're just not understanding what I'm saying... What I'm saying is that in the game it is a tested fact that 1 shot to the chest is 100% kill. That, like you agreed, cannot happen when wearing those plates. Even if it could somehow penetrate, it definitely wouldn't be 100%. Conclusion: Effects of the plates in the game are not modeled, either because the soldiers are not wearing them or they're wearing them but they're only for looks, just like their laser sights and flashlights. I'm not knowledgeable of what different US vests look like so I can't tell myself which one it is, but both are definitely far off from reality and need to be fixed.

As for tiring speed, even at a sprint getting tired after 10-20m is too quickly. Then again, discussing how fast you should get tired while running at speeds that are impossible to run at IRL is kinda pointless. I just hope they find a fix, though I doubt it...

[Jex =TE= 0]

IIRC the Royal Marine Commando's do a 30 mile course with 60 pounds of kit and have 6 hours to do it in - that's an average of 5mph for 6 hours straight and are considered similar to olympic athletes in fitness. I tested Arma one move speeds some time ago and this is what I worked out...

I just tested the movement speeds in arma and think I have these figures correct. I did the test over 100m using the following calculations

time per 100m

x10 (1 km)

/60

x1.6 (kilomters to a mile)

=time per mile

60 minutes/time per mile

=MPH

The results are..

Walk 100 seconds per 100m = 2.25 mph

Crouched walk 84 seconds per 100m = 2.67 mph

Combat Walk 42 seconds per 100m = 5.35 mph

Run 28 seconds per 100m = 8.04 mph

Sprint 19 seconds per 100m = 11.85 mph

The test was carried out on the Rahmadi map using the landing strip giving a flat terrain.

As you can see, the sprint is pretty fast for 17kg's of weapons, plus the body arma, webbing etc

What I would like to see is a splinter cell feature where the mouse wheel increase the speed in small steps - it seems many people want a "Tabbing" mode (a fast walk). Personally I would like

- A Slow walk speed for creeping <1 mph

- A normal walk @ 3mph

- A fast walk (TAB) 4-5 mph

- A Jog 5-6mph

- A run 6-7mph

- A sprint

With all these speeds affected by the weight you are carrying. Allow me to carry 100kg but make me move like I'm carrying it.

-

[galzohar 31]

Do we even know yet if movement speeds in Arma 2 can be modified as opposed to Arma 1? If not then there's little modding can do and we can only pray BIS pays attention to this. If speed is changeable then a simple formula and an extra stat on each item class can easily fix the weight system in a realistic way, but if it isn't changeable then there's no way whatsoever to get a realistic weight system.

You don't even need that many controls:

- Slow walk for creeping isn't really needed, I doubt anyone would ever use it and you can always tap your forward key when walking to move slower. Can live without for the sake of easier controls.

- Instead of slow walk / fast walk / jog / sprint just have medium-fast walk, and then for jogging you'd change jog speed by lowering your weapon (weapon raised = slower jog), and then sprinting.

That way we can have the same controls we have now but actually have a lot better control of our characters. This, of course, is in addition to fixing the actual speeds of each mode and stamina loss system.

[frederf 0]

Be aware that the walk speed has definately increased since ArmA1. ArmA2 walk speed is 6.0 km/h which is pretty brisk. I would too like a "scroll wheel" style speed control like H&D2. Weight should include your clothing, equipment and effect stamina. Stamina should also have two levels, long-term and short-term. Also I'd like a unicorn pie with extra butter but it shouldn't be fattening.

[galzohar 31]

6 KM/H is a speed at which you walk on LONG tracks (many hours), though usually done with basic combat loads (weapon, ammo and water plus stuff like stretcher, radio and even more water) and not the heavy combat loads that include ceramic plates etc. When in an actual combat I'd definitely want to walk faster than 6KM/H as I don't actually need to be able to sustain that speed for hours, more likely just a few hundred meters at the most. Then again also walking at 7-8KM/H or faster feels like you're just better off running (try it out on a treadmill in the gym) - which leads us again to needing a slower run mode (in addition to fixing the current run speeds).

[galzohar 31]

Also, it seems to make your solider start breathing vocally and swaying the weapon as a result just by going prone or getting up from prone. I don't care how much weight we're simulated to be carrying, it's way overdone.

[nomdeplume 0]

I've never noticed the fatigue hit from going prone, but the prone to standing hit seems to be bugged. You're much much better off going to crouch and then standing. I hope that one gets fixed.

[IronPants 0]

Prone to standing does inexplicably cause immediate panting, which is ridiculously overdone. It should cause a little more of a stamina hit than prone > crouch > stand because it's faster, but I can't imagine the current stamina hit being a conscious decision. It's got to be a bug... either way, no one was paying attention enough to give some critical thought to the basics.

[galzohar 31]

Stance trasitions should have some kind of stamina hit, except it needs to be a neglicible hit you'll never notice unless you repeatedly change stances (for example go prone and up every <5 seconds or crouch and up every <2 seconds).

[CombatComm 10]

Yah waay to many guys that havent even got out of their living rooms let alone been in full IPE gear running around talking about what is and isnt realistic. Try running up 4 flights of stairs in full gear, M-16 AND chem suit with mask on. Thats a bitch. They should collapse after 1000 meters full sprint

[Vandrel 10]

/5char

Edited September 10, 2011 by Vandrel

[frederf 0]

I read an interesting article about soldiers' load and there was a bit about "special forces training to carry heavier loads" and it rather debunked the idea that you can get used to a load that is very heavy just by carrying it a lot and training that way. There seems to just be a load where training makes little to no difference in carry performance.

[CombatComm 10]

Finally, someone with experience that knows as well as I do that it's not realistic for a person wearing a crap ton of gear flopping all over the place and you can still run for 30 minutes at a full sprint or constant pace.

If it needs to get changed then they need to make it more REAL and have people get light headed, blackout, require HYDRATION! etc etc etc

It'd straight break off most people to try and run 3 miles with no gear on in under 20 minutes, yet everyone on this forum seems to think it's realistic to just up and run all over the damn place and never get winded. I hate to say it but Marines are not supermen, contrary to belief, we get tired too and wearing all this crap is a kick in the pants. It's one of the biggest complains of the military right now, WAY to much gear = immobile grunt.

Hell, I'll give you guys a little hint.... it's nearly impossible to get in and out of hatches on armored vehicles just wearing the MTV flak jacket alone, add some mag pouches and a IFAK to the damn thing and you will no kidding get stuck in the hatches. It's rediculous.

Hooah

[galzohar 31]

The stmaina system is messed up in many ways. Some make the Arma 2 soldier better than a RL soldier, and some make him worse.

Things that are messed up that make him better:

- After being exhausted (0 stamina), you can still jog full speed.

- Full jog speed is way too fast, not to mention sprint speed is slightly faster too.

- Speed stays the same no matter how heavy you load yourself.

- Stamina recovers extremely fast.

Things that make him worse:

- Going prone / back up drains way too much stamina.

- Running very short distances drains way too much stamina (overall, stamina drains too fast).

- The aiming "jerks" in Arma 2 instead of "float" like IRL. IRL your rifle doesn't magically bounce from one position to the other, it moves along with your uncontrolled body movements that are caused by heavy breathing / tired muscles.

- Even when really tired IRL (after a full night of walking/running around, then doing a 200m run with gear right before shooting) you can get reasonable hits on a head target at 50m from crouch. I'm not sure the Arma 2 soldier can do that after running 20m from full stamina.

[laserpanda 10]

Name a single character model in-game that is carrying anything resembling CLOSE to even 80 pounds of gear. There's no "EOD" character option wearing a bigass bomb-proof suit

I want an EOD character now :(

[Vandrel 10]

/5char

Edited September 10, 2011 by Vandrel

[bricks 6]

Just for reference the standard USMC rifleman in A2 has the following kit

MTV = 30 lbs

Lightwieght Helmet = 4 lbs

M16A4 + Aimpoint = 8 lbs

6 x 30 Rnd Mags (1 lbs ea.) = 6 lbs

4 x M67 (.87 lbs ea.)= 3.5 lbs

AN/PVS-14 NVGs = 1.1 lbs

AN/PRC-148 Radio = 1.9 lbs

Water (3 Litres) + 1 MRE = 7.7 lbs

Boots/Misc = 5 lbs

-------------------------------------

67.2 lbs

Thats for the basic rifleman, it only gets heavier when you add SMAW's, M240s etc.

[galzohar 31]

In fact, IRL M240B loadout is so heavy even without a lot of ammo that in the IDF it was taken out of service many years ago. It's still an awesome machinegun that is used a lot, but only on mounted platforms (anything from hummvee to Merkava mark IV MBT). The weapon being a few KGs heavier than the negev 5.56 LMG and the ammo being much heavier makes it so that the LMG gunner carries less weight and carries all the ammo by himself rather than needing an assistant (when M240B was standard issue for infantry it would be in a 2-man team, carrying ~600-750 rounds, Negev gunners carry 790 rounds alone). Negev is very similar in function to the M249 (barrel length, ROF, weight etc are almost the same).

Currently 2 M16 mags (60 rounds) take the same space as a 200 round box! That means the M249 gunner in-game carries more than 3X the ammo of a rifleman (not to mention weapon weight) and runs at the same speed. Even M249 would probably be issued to more soldiers than it currently is IRL if it wasn't for the weight, but at least M249 is manageable, M240B is not. And don't even get me started about aiming the M240B when not prone (or even holding it at your shoulder for more than 2 seconds)! It's almost impossible IRL. Even with the M249 it's not exactly easy.

In short, the game has it way off whenever it comes to the heavier loadouts, on top of the basic stamina issues.

As a side note, if you bind movement to an axis rather than a key, you're able to move at varying speed, so it might actually be possible for an addon to actually manipulate movement speeds based on weight.

[weegee_101 0]

I don't intend to come off unprofessional about the comment but let's be honest here, 99% of people commenting on this garbage have never even held a real firearm let alone a FULL compliment of ammunition all over their body armor and other crap for 7 months straight. Hell, tell you what, to get a feel for what it's like to really hate life go ahead and take all of the afore mentioned gear and add a MOPP suit and gas mask to it while sitting in a hot ass vehicle with no A/C, you'll feel like a 6 foot dude in a 5 foot coffin 6 feet under the ground real quick.

Ooorah! Well said.

You people wanna know what running with full gear on feels like, buy a weighted vest or stop bitching. Once you've run for a mile or two in that, go to Nevada in July and do the same thing.

Gear is heavy, period.

[CombatComm 10]

I cant stand all these whiney fat computer slobs bitching about this. Listen to the people who have expirience for what is and isnt realistic. Not what you want to be realistic. If you dont want your charecter to fall after 1000 meters than dont download an addon that does that. Simple.

[Jex =TE= 0]

Just for reference the standard USMC rifleman in A2 has the following kit

MTV = 30 lbs

Lightwieght Helmet = 4 lbs

M16A4 + Aimpoint = 8 lbs

6 x 30 Rnd Mags (1 lbs ea.) = 6 lbs

4 x M67 (.87 lbs ea.)= 3.5 lbs

AN/PVS-14 NVGs = 1.1 lbs

AN/PRC-148 Radio = 1.9 lbs

Water (3 Litres) + 1 MRE = 7.7 lbs

Boots/Misc = 5 lbs

-------------------------------------

67.2 lbs

Thats for the basic rifleman, it only gets heavier when you add SMAW's, M240s etc.

Royal Marine Commandos have to do 30 miles in 6 hours with 60lbs of kit (an average of 5 mph) or get dropped from the course.

also

Yomp is Royal Marines slang describing a long distance march carrying full kit.

The most famous yomp of recent times was during the 1982 Falklands War. After disembarking from ships at San Carlos on East Falkland, on 21 May 1982, Royal Marines and members of the Parachute Regiment yomped (and tabbed) with their equipment across the islands, covering 56 miles (90 km)[1] in three days carrying 80 pounds (36 kg)[2] loads.

[galzohar 31]

Yeah, while jog is too fast, walk is too slow, at least when you consider that in the game you walk 1-2KM MAX, and usually just short CQB distances, so should be able to walk even a bit faster than 8km/h (5mph).