Warfare Proton Mods

[Proton 11]

The good news is that I found a way around that dialog problem, namely an ugly hack which makes that addon unnecessary. I am waiting for feedback from the (corrected) 1.1 and then release the addon-less version. Until then I look into the arty problem. I just aim now to implement the same system as it was in ARMA1, maybe replace timer with money (each strike will cost something, so if you have enough money you can release MLRS hell once in each minute, but it will drain your budget quite fast).

---------- Post added at 12:09 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:01 PM ----------

Luke:

Many thanks for pointing out these ones. I have not yet noticed that you do not get the construct option if you take the commander role immediately, as I was testing it with 5 sec vote time, so I had always taken the command from the AI.

I also believe I found what is causing your game ending bug, the fix will make into the next release. Btw., how could you discover it? If you start the game as commander, you do not have the construction menu. If I let the AI first take over, he builds something immediately and the game does not end because of those buildings. Did you deploy the MHQ so fast that the structures were not ready yet?

Actually I would not expect too much from the commander AI. It does not look like a well-written piece of code. And I do not believe it is very important from the gamer point of view, as in most cases there will be a human commander anyway.

[The.Yield 10]

Confirming that the trucks now work! Hilarious as their pathing is =P

Even in safe mode they get all funky and off-road it.

[greenpsycho 10]

Hey Proton, great update man. Me and my buddies have been really enjoying the map and all the little tweaks (the ammo re-label one is definitely one of the most understated mods)

Unlock is now instantaneous, and it seems the supply trucks are working a bit better now. Maybe I'm just not understanding the system, but my trucks will always supply the town once, earn me cash, and then I never hear from them again (I'm too busy shooting TBH).

The desaturated colors bug me, so I normally just edit the color correction params and bump up the saturation to 100% (I think its at 80% for the mod). For those who like Willy Wonka colors like me, you can read more here:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=74284&highlight=colorcorrections

Overall, awesome awesome awesome, just what I've been trying to make myself (unsucessfully).

[USMCLuke 10]

Somehow, through your editing, you seem to have fixed it the game-ending bug, so I wouldn't mess with that. I always have my guys vote me Cmdr right off the bat so that the AI doesn't put any buildings down, this seems to have an effect on the AI as it will actually treat your new location as the HQ as opposed to continuing to use the old location for any reason what so ever.

The only problem we're currently experiencing is a general slowdown and ultimate server crash around 3-4 hrs. in/75% towns captured, but I have a feeling that it's just an overload due to Superpowers/AI, not your code.

I did modify your scripts on our server to allow for a $5000 starting amount for each squadleader as well as 10k supply points so that the entire base could be built at the start.

The supply trucks seemed to work smashingly tonight. @greenpsycho - Pay attention to the SV: ##/## at each town. It can only be resupplied if the left number is less than the right. We found that having someone send supply trucks while defending a CP can help hold onto it longer since capping is directly related to decreasing your opponent's SV to 0.

The only other issue I've found is that as the Commander, if a human takes a squad over, and then either moves to another squad, or disconnects, the Commander can no longer control that squad in any way, that too is a Superpowers issue.

All in all, it seems to be working great overall. I wouldn't change too much with the current code. There's a couple arty mods out there that you could probably implement. I would suggest keeping all assets "off map" just because of the random nature of the base spawns. Maybe implement the 81mm's in some way on map, such as having a mortar pit at each central town CP (or just a couple strategically placed) that could be used "on call" within a 5-6km radius. You might be able to do something similar with the howitzers, maybe place them at the airports as well?

Our solution to the lack of airports has just been to move our MHQ to one of the 3 and build the AF in a way so that when it spawns aircraft, they can be taxied to a runway.

Keep up the good work!

Edited July 21, 2009 by USMCLuke

[Binesi 10]

I just played this solo on my own system (no server) for about 1.5 hours after which I started getting some serious stutter. About every 3-4 seconds the game will lock up for a few moments. I was trying this out solo because the server I play on was having problems.

I'm not sure where the problem is. My framerate isn't suffering outside of the pauses and the memory usage for ARMA didn't go up past 600M. I am guessing it is script related. In comparison, the vanilla Superpowers I have been able to finish solo without any noticeable slow downs.

I wasn't doing anything special at the time of the stutters happening. I had about 4 supply trucks going. My machine is a quad with 8 GB so it should be able to handle most anything.

I really am enjoying this mod though and I hope this will continue to evolve. I definately agree with upping the money though. Resistance with more cash to spend makes city captures more interesting, and I like being able to put together a squad and a vehicle off the bat.

[USMCLuke 10]

Going through the ArmA2Server.rpt last night I was seeing a lot of errors. I can e-mail it to you if you like Proton. Head out to www.militarygaming.net, register an account and I will e-mail it to you.

[Proton 11]

Registered. Thanks for doing it!

[USMCLuke 10]

Sorry for the delay, I'm in CST (GMT -5). It's sent. It's a 2MB file, so it may take a while to go through.

[Proton 11]

It looks satisfying. Although it is automatically capped at 2MB, so I cannot see how it progressed initially, the only single error which was related to scripting was due the ALICE module (somebody used the random chat feature).

The log says that you actually crashed because the engine could not handle an update of an object over the network. Maybe somebody disconnected in a special way? We cannot really do anything about it until BIS fixes these bugs. Said that it is possible that it is a side effect of something I did wrong, like the network traffic grew too large. Could you monitor the bandwidth usage next time please? Does it grow over time more significantly when compared to the normal Superpowers?

If I am finished with adding the arty, and nobody comes up with new game breaking errors, I will publish a new version, this time not a beta. The only bug I know about and is not fixed yet in my latest version is the AI teams transfer bug - it is quite easy to reproduce with late join. It may be there in the original mission as well. Next to it we have a general performance issue, but it will take a longer time to improve.

[galzohar 31]

Is there going to be a Utes version? I find Chernarus warfare games take way too long overall as well as take way too long to even meet enemies, while Utes is almost instant action.

[Proton 11]

I suspect that it is just some file copy, so most probably yes, but it is not my priority ATM.

[galzohar 31]

How much do you plan on tweaking unit/weapon costs? IMO there the original warfare needs some major tweaking done... For example a static TOW launcher costs almost as much as a TOW humvee, and weapons overall cost extreme amounts of cash.

I still don't understand how cash is earned in warfare, though. That is, the exact mechanics or it.

[The.Yield 10]

Sounds great Proton! Can't wait to test the arty (wonder if it's going to be real arty or not!).

[Proton 11]

Galzohar:

I am absolutely open to cost suggestions. In the case of new weapons/vehicles I just simply guessed a number which has nothing to do with the real utility of that asset. I would be happy to see complete suggested price lists, or would be even happier to see directly modified files in the mission, so I do not have to copy/paste them.

The problem is that prices should be established on a consensus. What an asset worth depends on how much people use/abuse it. If somebody invents a tactics which makes it uber-powerful, it should be nerfed down. People also tend to want seeing their favourite being cheaper and what they hate is being more expensive. So costs should be based on the opinion of *all* players and should not enable some assets to rule the game.

In short, in cases where it is obvious I will modify the costs immediately. In general cases I would wait for suggestions from people who actually played this mission a lot, and play the mission myself and see what is off the road.

Cash is earned in three ways. First there are the supply trucks, where the money is calculated by 2*the actual supply value of the town which it supplied. Supply trucks come in two flavors, AI and player, where the former is earning cash for the entire team while the other is only for the player. I am actually thinking on changing the latter into the way how the old Warfare worked, that is, player supply trucks earn money for the entire team (but a fraction of it, like 1/2, 1/3 amount). The second way to earn cash is the bounties for capping cities or killing enemies. The third are salvagers, which is quite obvious.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

The.Yield:

Arty is going to be limited by costing money each time you ask for fire mission. Price depends on the type and amount of arty pieces you are willing to use. You will have dynamic control about who is going to participate in the fire mission. I am implementing the old warfare way, so you need to own the arty pieces. Maybe there will be a virtual option as well (it is actually easier to add), which is going to be much more expensive.

What I am really concerned about is balancing. Money will effectively cut their usage but I can still imagine an endgame where everybody is building only arty. I saw an arty radar is in-game, but I still need to check what can it do in MP.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Proton

[Binesi 10]

Before I make any more suggestions I just want to say again that this mod is top notch. A great service to the ARMA community.

Galzohar:

I am absolutely open to cost suggestions

I suggest that the ambulance type vehicles are a bit too expensive. I understand they have more value in play now, but I feel they are expensive to the point that no one is using them.

Also in regard to units the USMC has a HUMV with a TOW but the Russians don't have an equivalent AT mounted on a light vehicle. Is there something similar in a Vodnik? In addition the Russians have special forces available but the USMC is without.

My last cost suggestion would be simply upping the starting funds for each faction to get the game going faster. Warfare is a bit slow.

I am implementing the old warfare way, so you need to own the arty pieces. Maybe there will be a virtual option as well (it is actually easier to add), which is going to be much more expensive.

I hope arty is not virtual. I really would like, and I think it is necessary to have the opportunity to take out the opposing arty.

As for improvements it would be nice to see some work done on the AI if it is not too out of scope. For example the AI creates lots of static weapons to defend it's HQ - but it doesn't man them after the first or second weapon placement. Also it tends to favor using only a few different units and doesn't use combined arms tactics often enough. For example I was watching the Russians churn out nothing but Tungs and T72s for an hour. Most of the infantry I kill is from the resistance.

[l mandrake 9]

Could I please request a smaller version of the mission (still on Chernarus), with maybe half the number of towns?

This would be more suitable for smaller servers!

Thanks

Mandrake

[Bunkers 0]

Sorry for not reading through this thread but is there any servers running this warfare mod currently? I didnt see any lately. I'd love to play this one.

[The.Yield 10]

I'm chomping at the bit! Can't wait to rain death and malice upon my enemies! :rolleyes: :D

So with the cost system in place as you describe (which sounds great by the way - should go a long way to curb insanity) is the new player controlled arty interface out? I would love to see it in there - with maybe the scripts I've seen out there to attach mortars into the back of flatbed pickup trucks! Hehe, a man can dream.

And in regards to the end-game becoming a cold-war melt down of sorts... Well maybe it should? I mean, if I was in command of a military confrontation of this sort (good thing this is a video game and I AM in command, lol) and it was just devolving into a meat-grinder.... Ya I would likely start just shelling the crap out of the other base, lol. I think that end-game is a natural conclusion.

[galzohar 31]

So basically if I buy a bunch of trucks I will get money in a really fast rate?

I hadn't played enough warfare yet to make exact price suggestions, but like you said, some things are obvious.

Static defenses seem too expensive. Every RTS game maker knows that static defenses, even if powerful, are not that great and thus adjusts price accordingly. Not to mention the fact they come un-manned should be considered in their cost, as you have to pay 75-100$ extra to man them.

Regarding artillery, I don't know how feasible it is, but it would really balance it out if you'd be able to build cheap defense walls around your base buildings to protect them from indirect artillery impacts. That is, the fortified wall will block the explosion damage of the shells if they don't land directly on your structure. Combining that with expensive artillery will make it possible to defend your base from it in a cost-effective manner. Again I'm not sure how feasible this is, would definitely require some testing (some objects seem to be "transparent" for bullets and explosions...). Also I'm not sure how buildings get repaired, but having a reasonable way of repairing should be available if it isn't already.

Wouldn't making a Utes version be easier than making a scaled-down Chernarus version? The more I think about it the more I think it is needed to have a smaller scale version of this so it is playable with less people and/or in less time.

Another thing that would be easy yet very useful is to have every playable soldier spawn with a GPS in the inventory. Also I think to balance out making weapons cheaper, make respawning cost 100$ (but allow you to go negative and you will not be able to buy anything until you're positive again). The idea is that I think that a player dying should have similar financial consequences to an AI soldier dying.

How hard would it be to place informative markers on friendly buildings/strongpoints so that players know what they can buy/do and where? Possibly with a toggle option.

Just wondering - is the AI skill of units that are spawned set to max? If not, it probably should be, as AI with less than max skill is pretty terrible.

[.kju 3240]

Proton as your project is going stronger and stronger with great people interest, you may

want to consider a project space at dev heaven. :)

You can consider if issue tracking, a wiki, a code repository, changesets, a project forum

among to another aspects is benefical.

You can read more about dev heaven free project hosting here:

http://dev-heaven.net/wiki/heaven/Request_your_project_space

(click the links for examples)

And dev heaven in general:

http://dev-heaven.net/

best regards

.kju

:bounce3:

[Flatulent Robot 10]

Is there a way for all vehicles to be created unlocked? It doesn't work the same way from arma1 warfare and haven't found anything new in the forums.

[galzohar 31]

Another thing I've noticed in the basic warfare is that a vehicle that had its crew killed will just remain abandoned in the field even though it is fully functional, and you cannot man it unless you were the one who bought it, and the AI will never bother manning them. Either unlock AI vehicles or teach them to make sure his stuff (vehicles and static defenses) get used. Also if the AI can't man static defenses properly, then it's best if he doesn't build them at all.

[USMCLuke 10]

We disabled UltraAI in our custom difficulty last night and our host moved another server off of our box to allow us to be the only ArmA 2 server on it. These two things allowed us to play this endlessly last night. Good stuff.

[greenpsycho 10]

Another thing I've noticed in the basic warfare is that a vehicle that had its crew killed will just remain abandoned in the field even though it is fully functional, and you cannot man it unless you were the one who bought it, and the AI will never bother manning them. Either unlock AI vehicles or teach them to make sure his stuff (vehicles and static defenses) get used. Also if the AI can't man static defenses properly, then it's best if he doesn't build them at all.

Honestly, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I reckon this is a general Arma2 issue, not specific to Proton's mod. I say this because similar situations occur in the normal warfare mode, which makes me think its a game bug.

Overall, I've had my server running close to 24 hours (small, private server for just my buds), but I've logged in and out several times and it seems to be running OK.

Performance wise, I'm getting a slightly less server fps than normal warfare (using #monitor): normal: 15fps, protons: 9-12fps (i don't think the server is using all my cores for some reason)

Again, I'm more than satisfied and I'm really liking random city patrol squads, that adds a ton of diversity and on the fly action that was missing.

[galzohar 31]

You're not wrong, I did mean the issue that exists in regular warfare, which I am hoping proton will find a way to fix if it's doable.