i really cant get used to the multiplayer

[walker 0]

Hi all

galzohar it sounds like you would be happier playing CTF and Berzerk there are public several servers running both and there are even clan servers that specialise them. I suggest you start joining them. ;)

My self I prefer a good clan coop or asymmetric Attack and Defend for a about 60% of my game play but I still spend 40% of my time playing Berzerk and CTF. I am having no problem finding servers same as most people playing ArmA II.

And like them we are all having loads of fun. Just played a Berzerk server usual 60 player kind. Some guy said only west win in it which is load of crap so I joined the east side. Then spent the first half using a T90 from the woods, engine off in commander slot MG ing copters, spotting BLUEFOR vehicles then hopping in to the gunner slot, using HE and rocket rounds to take them out and HE to blow up infantry ducking behind houses. If you see one duck into a street you fire at the roof of the house behind the one they ducked behind; this gives you an air burst kill. Then I got hunted and killed by a tank helicopter pair. So I switched to the MHQ and brought up close to the Radio tower hid it in some downed trees then started capping flags.

I also played dead tank from the commander slot and killed 3 guys that way :)

Fun, Fun, Fun!

Kind Regards walker

[whisper 0]

Freedom would be if you could actually choose where you're going. But all missions (at least the playable ones that actually allow you to find an enemy at some point) will send you traveling to the exact same spot/area/zone, as that's your objective. Taking 15 min (or even 3 min) to get to the exact same place over and over is not freedom, it's boredom. It's like you can say that in World of Warcraft flying from town to the dungeon you play in every week is freedom, while in fact it's the exact same mindless action every time.

You don't HAVE to mindlessly go through the same route, with the same vehicle, to the objective all the time. Planning the transport vehicle, path and angle of attack on objective is part of the whole tactic (and freedom) you're given.

ArmA is a very Hide&Seek game, the transport (hidden) part is central to it, imho. Only concentrating on the actual firefight tax&techniques is restrictive, imho

[hund 0]

You're right if you play the same mission over and over again, Galzohar, but who in their right mind would continually play the same mission over and over when you have the worlds best mission editor at hand?

Oh wait, I forgot the mindless DOMEVO drones :D

[galzohar 31]

You don't HAVE to mindlessly go through the same route, with the same vehicle, to the objective all the time. Planning the transport vehicle, path and angle of attack on objective is part of the whole tactic (and freedom) you're given.

I'd agree if in those missions those decisions would actually matter. Fact is they usually don't, due to the simple fact that the grand majority of the map is empty of players and you really just want to cross it as fast as possible until you get at least somewhat close to the action. Once you get, say, 1km from the action then actual thinking starts to apply, but going through the 10-15km before that point is a waste of time. Besides, having long travel after respawn doesn't add realism - I mean listen to it - realism with respawns? No matter how you handle respawns it's not going to be realistic.

It's very possible to keep a realistic mission interesting, but currently most missions remove lots of realism for the sake of gameplay and in most cases it doesn't even help gameplay.

CTF just looks plain silly. In those I tried, it's near-impossible to get to the flag alive, and if you reached it somehow it's near-impossible to carry it back. People have realized that and just run around playing TDM style. Not that there is a real selection of CTF servers, for me it takes luck to have 1-2 running with <150ms and more than 3 players. Same with berserk and hold.

What I don't like about berserk, is that due to the vehicle and loadout options, it results in the tanks dominating everything most of the time.

Edited July 17, 2009 by galzohar

[Emberwolf 0]

What I don't like about berserk, is that due to the vehicle and loadout options, it results in the tanks dominating everything most of the time.

This is an issue with any mission that involves any playable vehicle which isn't strictly limited to transport capabilities. A single tank, attack helicopter, or jet can nullify the effort of 20 infantry. Not that their existence isn't already a problem with the bickering, whining, rank farming, and teamkilling which typically occurs among allies over acquiring and using these. Some players seem perfectly okay with wasting bandwidth by camping the vehicle spawn or otherwise simply refusing to play if they can't use their favorite toy. I'd rather they grabbed a rifle and started playing the game with the rest of us, or they could just as well fuck off because we could certainly use the extra bandwidth and roster spots for more useful players.

Public gameplay in general is garbage. People find ways to be insipid little dicks even in rare high quality missions on quiet little low population servers off someplace away from the Evolution/Domination cesspits.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Man galzohar it sounds like any form of FPS is wrong for you but do not worry I have the perfect game form for you down load this.

Latest COD style game form

I hunt tanks with an RPG, I toasted 2 in Berzerk today.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 17, 2009 by walker

[galzohar 31]

What I mean is, if you're going to send infantry up against modern tanks, the least you can do is properly equip them with javelins. If you're going to send them against air, give them AA. And no, 7.62 machineguns and AT-4s don't suffice when you're facing top notch armor/air. While griefing/TKing over it and camping its spawn are wrong, they're a result of an imbalanced mission.

Not to mention the loadout restrictions in berserk are making everything even worse when it comes to infantry VS vehicles. While the Arma 2 defualt loadout system is a bit too allowing, the berserk system is way too restrictive.

[Killerwatt 0]

Its easy to deal with tanks in Berzerk. just do what I did to the tank that was camped near the flag at Novy Sobor. He was watching the flag and every time it changed hands he would drive up to take it then reverse away again. Well I just snuck up behind him when he was looking forward and left him a nice satchel charge. Once I got far enough away he was toast when I set off the charge lol.

[Alex72 1]

Most servers to me is 15-60 ping. Then the 100s and over is US and other side of the globe. So i cant see this problem myself. Would suck though ofcourse.

So far Charlie Foxtrot have been playing with lots of people in PvP and is working fine.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The only thing I would do is allow the SMAW as many rockets as the RPG in Berzerk. That said there is the Javlin but it is just it is one giant missile and is useless at short range.

It was nice to see a helicopter tank pair hunting me in the T90 the other day.

Kind Regards walker

[galzohar 31]

Its easy to deal with tanks in Berzerk. just do what I did to the tank that was camped near the flag at Novy Sobor. He was watching the flag and every time it changed hands he would drive up to take it then reverse away again. Well I just snuck up behind him when he was looking forward and left him a nice satchel charge. Once I got far enough away he was toast when I set off the charge lol.

I wouldn't call that "easy". While sometimes you can pull these things off and it's awesome, most of the time the tanks dominate.

[BadMamaJama 10]

This is an issue with any mission that involves any playable vehicle which isn't strictly limited to transport capabilities. A single tank, attack helicopter, or jet can nullify the effort of 20 infantry. Not that their existence isn't already a problem with the bickering, whining, rank farming, and teamkilling which typically occurs among allies over acquiring and using these. Some players seem perfectly okay with wasting bandwidth by camping the vehicle spawn or otherwise simply refusing to play if they can't use their favorite toy. I'd rather they grabbed a rifle and started playing the game with the rest of us, or they could just as well fuck off because we could certainly use the extra bandwidth and roster spots for more useful players.

Public gameplay in general is garbage. People find ways to be insipid little dicks even in rare high quality missions on quiet little low population servers off someplace away from the Evolution/Domination cesspits.

Can I have your babies? :clap:

[walker 0]

Hi all

I am sorry but if you cannot take out tanks as infantry using AT you are not playing the game well.

Tanks only dominate if you are wuss enough to let them.

I know a lot of the New Guys have only played shoe box infantry sims like COD and are realy frightened of big Armor. There is not need to be. The Chernogorsk map has very high complexity terrrain and clutter density. There is more than ample cover and concealment for infantry to deal with a tank. If it is in town or Forrest hunt it with short range AT. If it is out in the open use long range guided missiles. A tank on a hill is just an easy target. If it is moving it makes lots of noise and dust and is very easy to spot, it cannot shoot straight and shows up on other armor and helicopter radar. The firing of the tanks gun gives away its position with sound, flash, smoke and even tracer.

Best of all work as a tank hunter team, the biggest indication the tank has of where an RPG or round came from is their dammage radar, if you work as a team you can hit it from multiple directions. Remember a fully crewed tank is 3 to 4 easy kills and a single player cannot move and gun at the same time. They cannot see for toffee, they can hear virtualy nothing if the engine is on or the turret is spinning.

A sensible tank has an infantry screen to spot AT threats but that limits its mobility. So take silenced weapons and a cover squad as part of your team. A stationary Tank is an easy to kill, it is either in a position where there is a defilade aproach or it is out in the open and easy pray for a long range Javlin or Metis round.

Also try working as a dismounted tank guide. This is a simple process where you dismout as a tank team member and use your superior eyes and ears to guide you tank to hunt theirs.

In Berzerk it is all about balance. The real points come from occupying and controling the objectives. The objectives also give you advaced spawn locations and extra vehicles. If the tank is in the objective they are in a fixed position see above about static tanks. They are often in town which makes them dead meat to short range AT from defilade.

If the tank is outside the objective grabbing kills it is loosing points. Every person in a tank is one less capping flags. You can get all the kill points and loose the war and in Berzerk it is the war that counts.

Kind Regards walker

[jw custom 56]

That said there is the Javlin but it is just it is one giant missile and is useless at short range.

If you do top-down attack then yes it needs longer distance but with direct attack you can hit from about 50m.

I tested it on 50m and hit the T-90 in the front and it got severaly damaged, crew bailed out and seconds later it exploded.

I did anoter test and noticed it works down to 45m using direct attack!

So my conclusion is:

Top down attack 170m+ -> use optic

direct attack 45m+ -> dont use optic

Edited July 19, 2009 by JW Custom

[trickster1982 10]

I had a crack at multiplayer last night & found it pretty difficult, it was a chernarus night mission with about 30 or 40 players & I spawned on an airfield with nothing but trucks, a humvee & a confused looking sniper in a ghillie suit around me! I had no idea what I was supposed to do so after looking through the notes for some kind of mission plan I just got in the humvee & the other player must have thought I knew what I was doing so joined me, we drove in the direction of the squad leader icon on screen & eventually came across a village that was being pounded by gunships, but after wandering round a bit I realised that all the enemies were long dead & the chopper pilot was just flattening the buildings for the fun of it, so I wandered out of the village & after a while an APC & humvee came driving by with friendlies in & stopped, so I ran after them & got in the hummer but obviously wasnt part of the clan/clique & they wouldnt budge till I got out, then they just drove off & left me :rolleyes:

It just seemed to be a bit of an every man for himself game with a couple of clan squads roaming around together, so I decided to quit & go back to some of the rather excellent single player missions people have posted on here.

Multiplayer isnt all its cracked up to be! I used to be a big battlefield 2 player online in teams & clans till that got taken over by cheats,hacks & spoilt brats, & playing ArmA 2 online just felt like more of the same to me, Im sure theres some good organised servers where people play a real tactical game like its meant to be, but I cant be bothered trawling through the endless list of servers to find them.

[jw custom 56]

I had a crack at multiplayer last night & found it pretty difficult, it was a chernarus night mission with about 30 or 40 players & I spawned on an airfield with nothing but trucks, a humvee & a confused looking sniper in a ghillie suit around me! I had no idea what I was supposed to do so after looking through the notes for some kind of mission plan I just got in the humvee & the other player must have thought I knew what I was doing so joined me, we drove in the direction of the squad leader icon on screen & eventually came across a village that was being pounded by gunships, but after wandering round a bit I realised that all the enemies were long dead & the chopper pilot was just flattening the buildings for the fun of it, so I wandered out of the village & after a while an APC & humvee came driving by with friendlies in & stopped, so I ran after them & got in the hummer but obviously wasnt part of the clan/clique & they wouldnt budge till I got out, then they just drove off & left me :rolleyes:

It just seemed to be a bit of an every man for himself game with a couple of clan squads roaming around together, so I decided to quit & go back to some of the rather excellent single player missions people have posted on here.

Multiplayer isnt all its cracked up to be! I used to be a big battlefield 2 player online in teams & clans till that got taken over by cheats,hacks & spoilt brats, & playing ArmA 2 online just felt like more of the same to me, Im sure theres some good organised servers where people play a real tactical game like its meant to be, but I cant be bothered trawling through the endless list of servers to find them.

I host missions where you don't have to drive/fly half the map around to see action as it's usally very instant. You are more than welcome to join in, see details in my sig.

[{sas}stalker 10]

I know a lot of the New Guys have only played shoe box infantry sims like COD and are realy frightened of big Armor.

Seriously stop going on about Cod, it doesn't even have armour in it, talk about a straw man argument :rolleyes: its like comparing apples with oranges, and we get the picture you think the cod series is worthless........

Back on topic though, I do agree with walker that tanks and armour don't dominate, or at least no more than they should do, its not an easy experience playing the tank role and if you set out with some chaps purely to target the tanks then they are easy easy pickings.

Edited July 19, 2009 by {SAS}Stalker

[galzohar 31]

There's also an issue with all the HOLD type games with vehicles, that you never know if there are more vehicles spawning at your back base or not, and those vehicles are usually critical for the game. Guess that they didn't respawn yet and spawn at a forward base = lose vehicles that are just standing there unused. Guess that they respawned but they didn't = grats on a long walk back to the action or needing to kill yourself again.

[walker 0]

Hi all

galzohar In Berzerk you do know you can spawn a vehicle (Truck, Unarmed UAZ or Hummer, or a motorcycle) for you to drive from the main base at the tent dont you?

Kind Regards walker

[galzohar 31]

Didn't know that (I mean, how the hell is one supposed to find out other than having someone tell him?), but still, swap "walk" with "drive" in my above post and you get the same effect. While this drive would be worth it to get a tank into battle, it feels silly to spawn at the furthest base just to drive back with a motorcycle.

Besides, this issue isn't unique to berserk.

[whisper 0]

Well, it's listed on the respawn window each time you chose a spawn point, the available (or not, in which case it states if they are in use or how long till they reappear) vehicles for this spawn point are listed.

The spawn window has much infos, read them ;)

[bangtail 0]

Missions making you run 15min to the action are simply bad missions. Granted they may be realistic (though in the grand majority of the cases they're totally NOT realistic either), but it's very bad gameplay. You can make realistic missions that don't have long travel times. Seriously, travel times is one of the things I hated about World of Warcraft and I thought I was done with that (that is, games that make you spend a long time on boring actions so you can spend a little time on fun actions) when I unsubscribed. This also has nothing to do with dyslexi's tactics guide or finding a clan/squad.

A2 is a military simulator, not a John Woo/Michael Bay action simulator.

Having a long ingress is not an example of "very bad gameplay" but it does serve to annoy those with a short attention span. The same type of "instant grat" kiddie that plays WoW for example :rolleyes:

Eth

Edited July 19, 2009 by BangTail

[galzohar 31]

Holding the forward button and waiting is not something that demands attention. It's something that demands taping the "forward" button to the keyboard (or using a joystick slider) and go get something to eat/drink in the meanwhile. If you're lucky you'll have someone fly/drive for you so you don't have to tape your forward button down. Those kinds of behaviors are what I really didn't like about games like World of Warcraft, and would rather not see it in Arma 2.

It may be a simulator, but even in a racing simulator you don't drive 15 hours from your house to the racing area. Heck even in a squad combat drill you start the drill at the bottom of the hill you're attacking, not 15 miles away. Long marches are trained for separately. Just think how little training you'd get if you walked 15 miles before every time you start the "attack the hill" drill - not much... Same goes for gameplay - you get very little "game" and a lot "the much less interesting wrappings".

This may be a simulator, but it's also a game and thus should simulate the interesting parts and skip the boring parts. Not to mention just about any mission I played online felt like anything except simulation. The whole run-shoot-die-respawn-repeat cycle feels a lot like those games that everyone bring up as "the bad games that you should go play if you don't like Arma 2". If you're going to ditch realism for gameplay in your missions like that, at least don't add a long traveling time and claim that you have it because "it's a simulation". It's simply self-contradictory. This is ArmA 2, not taxi driver 7 / hitch hiker 3 / forest marcher 4.

If you enjoy traveling and waiting so much I can make you a mission that has a LOT of it. It would actually be pretty easy and you don't even need a server for it.

Also referring to other games that you don't like is not helping arguing against something you disagree with.

On anther note, I played some more berserk, and while it's better balance than other AAS, the issues I mentioned before are definitely issues. Also the methods of respawning make teamplay 99% worthless. Even if you try hard to follow teammates, you'll probably spend the grand majority of the match running off on your own simply because you pretty much never spawn with teammates.

Edited July 19, 2009 by galzohar

[bangtail 0]

Holding the forward button and waiting is not something that demands attention. It's something that demands taping the "forward" button to the keyboard (or using a joystick slider) and go get something to eat/drink in the meanwhile. If you're lucky you'll have someone fly/drive for you so you don't have to tape your forward button down. Those kinds of behaviors are what I really didn't like about games like World of Warcraft, and would rather not see it in Arma 2.

It may be a simulator, but even in a racing simulator you don't drive 15 hours from your house to the racing area. Heck even in a squad combat drill you start the drill at the bottom of the hill you're attacking, not 15 miles away. Long marches are trained for separately. Just think how little training you'd get if you walked 15 miles before every time you start the "attack the hill" drill - not much... Same goes for gameplay - you get very little "game" and a lot "the much less interesting wrappings".

This may be a simulator, but it's also a game and thus should simulate the interesting parts and skip the boring parts. Not to mention just about any mission I played online felt like anything except simulation. The whole run-shoot-die-respawn-repeat cycle feels a lot like those games that everyone bring up as "the bad games that you should go play if you don't like Arma 2". If you're going to ditch realism for gameplay in your missions like that, at least don't add a long traveling time and claim that you have it because "it's a simulation". It's simply self-contradictory. This is ArmA 2, not taxi driver 7 / hitch hiker 3 / forest marcher 4.

If you enjoy traveling and waiting so much I can make you a mission that has a LOT of it. It would actually be pretty easy and you don't even need a server for it.

Also referring to other games that you don't like is not helping arguing against something you disagree with.

On anther note, I played some more berserk, and while it's better balance than other AAS, the issues I mentioned before are definitely issues. Also the methods of respawning make teamplay 99% worthless. Even if you try hard to follow teammates, you'll probably spend the grand majority of the match running off on your own simply because you pretty much never spawn with teammates.

ROFLMAO. I don't know who designs your missions.

Do I avoid this patrol, do I neutralise it? Do I steal a vehicle or do I move through the woods on foot? That's what makes the game so involving. The ability to create almost any scenario. Troops don't teleport all over Iraq, and as boring as some travel might be for you, it is an integral part of simulation.

Sounds like you need to head over to BF2 or CoD for your action fix. This game wasn't designed with you in mind. And I'm not saying either of those games are bad by the way. I play PRM pretty much every day and I loved Cod 4 (well the SP anyway).

Simply put, if you don't like these aspects of realism, why buy a game that's major strength is it's focus on realism?

I don't sit here with my finger on 'w' for 15 minutes and that is one of the silliest "arguments" I have ever heard someone make with regards to infiltrating to arrive at an objective.

I'm happy BIS doesn't cater to people like you who have rigid parameters for how the game should be tailored specifically to THEIR paticularities. If you're not happy with the missions that are out there, make some of your own. That's the beauty of the game. If not, move on.

Eth

Edited July 19, 2009 by BangTail

[Inkompetent 0]

galzohar got a very good point. Unless the movement is motivated and with a certain degree of consequence it is pointless. If I'm going to get ferried for 10 minutes by truck but with no story element to it, no threat of ambush or other attack, and where the movement gives total freedom to choose the directon of attack on a target, then it is 10 wasted minutes.

If you play in PvP and move around with terrain masking to outflank your enemy it serves a purpose. They might be flanking the same side to either protect against your flanking maneuver or to flank your position. However this demands that the area of operations has a reasonable size compared to the number of players, or actually finding flanking enemies, be it with offensive or defensive purposes, will be nigh impossible!

But if the movement is threatless and one can just drive/fly around to a spot and pick the direction of attack, then one can just as well have teleported there and saved the time and trouble.

The long distance movement only adds anything to the gameplay if it has to be an active decision that matters and that can have both good and bad consequences, other than just another boring respawn after 2 minutes to do the same again.

I think limited team respawns or time pressure is quite a factor for this. Then means of travel and distance travelled actually matters more for the actual outcome of the mission.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Inkompetent