ArmA2:OHMOD Preview

[manberries 0]

I think the J-10 would be a very fitting fighter for the mod, considering the Chinese Intention to introduce it as a low-key/light frontline fighter, analogue to the US F-16 or Russian MiG-29, complementing the CAS, CAP and SEAD roles in a smaller radius and closer to the ground-units than said high-key/heavy-fighters like the J-11A/B (Su-27SK China-Mod) and Su-30MKK.

After all, the J-10 is a quite capable multirole fighter who can do everything from Presicion Strike to Air Superiorty pretty well, especially because of it's very agile Delta-Canard layout.

As for the engines, well, it's a general Chinese problem - not just for the J-10. The indigenous WS-10A turbofan is still not reliable enough for a single-engine fighter like the J-10, but it's already being used on the Chinese Flankers (J-11). But to say that the J-10 is a failed project because it's still using the russian AL-31FN, is a bit too harsh. The J-10 Vanguard will remain as a obligatory project, to help the Chinese Aviation Industry to learn self-sufficiency and independence. China cannot allow itself to be dependent on russian engines for ever, while they can produce everything else themselves by now...

As far as the J-10 failure goes, it is far reaching beyond the engine issues. The exact wing design you mentioned has been a massive failure world wide. The eurofighter has always had issues with it, as well as mirage and rafael fighters. The loss of lift during turns is just too much, this is why pyramid delta wing is used for the F-22, F-35, the prototype Mig 1.44, and most people believe it will be used on the PakFa. The J-10 has also been a failure in terms of reliability. The rather lacking avionics and other electronics have had constant failure. The Pakistani Airforce has been quite outraged about the service time of the aircraft.

As far as China being reliant on Russia. Sure, they wish not to be reliant, but for now they are. Even things produced in China, and considered true Chinese (not copies) still use many parts from Russian vehicles. Should, for whatever reason, Russia cut off the arms sales to China many of their vehicles would grind to a halt very quickly.

Comparison of J-10 to F-16 and Mig-29. The desire originally was for the J-10 t0 be a leading role aircraft. It was due to its lack of success that it was placed in an F-16 like position. However, the F-16 is a very reliable and capable aircraft in every job. Frankly, it is a far better aircraft in all respects. However, you are correct that the way the US uses the F-16 is the same idea as China does. The Mig-29 is not much like the F-16 or J-10 in any regard, with exception of range. The Mig-29 can actually match an F-15 in combat, the only issue with the Mig-29 is that its a short range intercept fighter. This keeps it from taking a role similar to the Su-27/30.

Either way, most of that is unimportant. It really comes down to what Fromz desires his mod to be. I agree, it would be more interesting to see a J-10, but possibly less realistic. If he plans on making his mod based around the non "elite" divisions then the J-10 is a very realistic possibility for CAS and CAP.

[Hongjian 11]

As far as the J-10 failure goes, it is far reaching beyond the engine issues. The exact wing design you mentioned has been a massive failure world wide. The eurofighter has always had issues with it, as well as mirage and rafael fighters. The loss of lift during turns is just too much, this is why pyramid delta wing is used for the F-22, F-35, the prototype Mig 1.44, and most people believe it will be used on the PakFa. The J-10 has also been a failure in terms of reliability. The rather lacking avionics and other electronics have had constant failure. The Pakistani Airforce has been quite outraged about the service time of the aircraft.

As far as China being reliant on Russia. Sure, they wish not to be reliant, but for now they are. Even things produced in China, and considered true Chinese (not copies) still use many parts from Russian vehicles. Should, for whatever reason, Russia cut off the arms sales to China many of their vehicles would grind to a halt very quickly.

Comparison of J-10 to F-16 and Mig-29. The desire originally was for the J-10 t0 be a leading role aircraft. It was due to its lack of success that it was placed in an F-16 like position. However, the F-16 is a very reliable and capable aircraft in every job. Frankly, it is a far better aircraft in all respects. However, you are correct that the way the US uses the F-16 is the same idea as China does. The Mig-29 is not much like the F-16 or J-10 in any regard, with exception of range. The Mig-29 can actually match an F-15 in combat, the only issue with the Mig-29 is that its a short range intercept fighter. This keeps it from taking a role similar to the Su-27/30.

Either way, most of that is unimportant. It really comes down to what Fromz desires his mod to be. I agree, it would be more interesting to see a J-10, but possibly less realistic. If he plans on making his mod based around the non "elite" divisions then the J-10 is a very realistic possibility for CAS and CAP.

Hach.

you are misinformed I assume.

First, the Delta-Canard Layout is regarded as one of the most agile aerodynamic-layout worldwide. Through the increased wing-surface of a Delta-Wing, the plane has MORE lift and by manipulating the canards, the plane will turn tighter and faster than a plane with conventional-layout, due to the fact that the canard will change the airflow and flight-direction before the actual wing-surface with less drag. A conventional layout would drag the airflow and reduces the overall speed BEFORE it even reaches the control surfaces. Thus reducing agility and turn-rate.

Comparison:

F-16 max. instant. turnrate: 28.4 degree per second.

J-10A max. instant. turnrate: 35.6 degree per second

In a turning dogfight, a J-10 would be superior - same with the Eurofighter and Rafale.

Video: J-10A doing a vertical takeoff without Afterburner and with just 200 meters runway.

What you mean by Eurofighter etc. having problems with the delta-canard is just that this layout is highly aerodynamically unstable and therefore very agile, if handed right. But this twin-bladed trait of aerodynamically instability requires sophisticated quadruplex computerized Fly-By-Wire Systems that 'predicts' the instability of the flight-profile and corrects/supports the pilots manual imput. Without Fly-By-Wire, a Delta-Canard is a unflyable falling leaf.

But other than that, I never heard that people are encountering problems with the very popular Delta-Canard layout... Maybe you have source for you claim? I'm interested.

Third: The Pakistanis cannot rage about the J-10, because it was simply never exported to them. China's arms policy in general is to never export their best and newest toys to anyone, without severly downgrading it.

But the J-10 was, is and will never be exported to anyone, because it's their newest elite-fighter. period.

The only war-planes China exported to Pakistan was the J-6 (Mig 19), J-7MF Fishbet (MiG-21), Q-5 Attacker (Fromz' video), K-8 Trainer and the newest one, the JF-17 (4th generation joint multirole fighter, produced in cooperation with and for pakistan), which was received pretty well by the pakistanis. Vid related: Boasting about being equal to the F-16.

So with this being said, I cannot verify your claim.

The avionics of the J-10 are pretty good. save the engine, there are no russian parts in the plane. The KLJ-3 planar-array pulse-doppler fire-control radar is as good as the F-16's AN/APG-68 and succeeding indigenous phased-array radars with 300km+ range are in work for the J-10B.

The cockpit is full glass; means 3 large liquid-crystal multicolour MFD's and high-angle HUD, HOTAS layout + pilot's helm-mounted sights which slaves the PL-8 or the future PL-ASR high-offbore advanced short range missiles.

And not to mention a fully computerized quadruple FBW to enable save handling of that instable bird.

So talking about self reliance, at least the electronics are all Chinese. Which is no news, since China has a booming civilian electronics industry since years.

China's main weakness are reliable high-thrust turbofan Engines. Nothing else has to be imported from foreign sources.

And no. The J-10 is NOT the leading role aircraft for the PLAAF, the J-11B and J-11BS are. They are heavy-fighters with long range and high-payload.

The J-10 is intendet as low-level multirole fighter like the F-16. Lower payload, shorter range and high availability are their key-virtues. A cheap, single engined fighter for frontline duty. Just this. Like the US combo of having the heavy twin-engined F-15 and the Light single-engined F-16.

Which does not mean that the J-10 is a second grade plane. Regiments flying old planes like the J-7 are. The J-10 regiments in the PLAAF are all regarded as elite units with more than 200+ flighthours training a year for the pilots, which is also NATO standard.

So If Fromz decides to implement a light multirole fighter for CAS and CAP, then the J-10 should be in there. Moreso if he intents to mod an PLA Elite Guard-Unit.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Hongjian

[manberries 0]

Pakistan airforce has been offered the J-10, the test beds have failed over and over leaving the Paki's angry as all hell. The FC-20(or 10) will be what Pakistan calls it when some issues are worked out regarding the export variant. True, this may just be due to the fact that its an export variant, but who knows. Former Pakistan president actually sat in one of the J-10 export prototypes. I'll admit, the actual order isn't due till 2014.

The loss of lift isn't even along the flat of the plane. The loss of lift is on the lower wing, causing it to roll more in a turn. Mi-24 actually had this issue in a high speed turn, also. All fighters using that wing design have been complained about it for it. This means more work for the fly-by-wire system, and more stress on the airframe trying to keep it correct; thus a major reason for constant repair needs. Su-47 prototype stealth aircraft experienced this same issue. This wing design is not considered one of the most agile, any longer, since the new pyramid delta seen on newer aircraft (pyrmaid delta isn't the official name but its the only name I can remember). By making it a more pyramid shape it creates a pressure area in the read during a high angle turn that helps create excess lift not usually present.

Your video is flawed, it is 100% accepted that the F-22 thrust to weight ratio is greater than the J-10. Thrust is far more important in a quick takeoff than aerodynamics (which the F22 isn't very aerodynamic at all due to stealth). This is because the difference in aerodynamics between the two doesn't make up for the amount more of force needed to lift that aircraft. Only thrust could make such a difference. As it is known the J-10 has a worse ratio, the wind that day must of been good for such a take off. Show me a consistency of the J-10 beating the F22 in this regard on similar wind scenarios, then you can say so.

The F-16 is a better aircraft because it works. It is proven effective in every combat environment known to man, using real combat. On to the radar, the J-10 does not have the same radar is each aircraft; as of yet. Reports state a number of different KLJ variations are present on different J-10's. At the very least the KLJ-10 and KLJ-3 are present. In either case, from the moment the J-10 rolled off the tarmac a program has been in place for upgrading all aspects of the targeting radar. This was due to irregularities in the radar's computer which does the 3d vector math required for properly locating and targeting missiles. There is no clear information on how this issue is what it is, but the developers admitted as such when they announced the development of an upgrade for the J-10 called (in the west) the Super-10. There is much discussion if the developers will seek more assistance from Israeli companies or Russian companies. Final note on the J-10 v F-16. At the moment the F-16 is proven to actually work for everything it claims it can do, the J-10 has no such proof as of yet. Edit: The F-16's in service now have upgraded radars. This new radar system allows for BVR with ARAAMs and includes a jammer to go with the upgraded radar.

I never said the J-10 is now a front line fighter, but it was designed to be. China didn't spend a so much money, working with both Russian and Israeli companies, to produce a second rate aircraft. I believe a report actually stated during its start of development it was supposed to counter the Generation 4.5 aircraft the US and Russia were using (Su27, Mig29, F-15 and their subsequent upgrade packages).

Frankly, either aircraft is quite suitable to be placed in. When I spoke of elite divisions I meant in terms of ground forces, not the actual pilots. I cannot say for sure what China's battle plan would be, but if a spearhead force was out fighting, it seems to me the most likely aircraft near by would be Su-30MKK/MK1/MK2. I guess it would depend who they are fighting.

Well, I believe we have clogged up the thread enough for now. The last word is yours to have, my very knowledgeable friend (not sarcastic). Fromz hopefully our statements will help more than hinder if your decisions of what aircraft to create. Good luck on the mod.

---------- Post added at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

On a final note, after thinking over and reading your rather convincing argument, I would rather see a J-10. Would be different, seems to make plenty of sense to be there, plus its all Chinese (well close enough) which is a good thing in a Chinese mod.

Edited September 20, 2009 by manberries

[RUDOLF 9]

I think OFP2 is a good game, But just a funny game. Sell for money.

The Codemaster guys don't know what's PLA at all. They just made a BF2 style PLA.

ArmA2 is not only a game, We will try our best to make a Chinese style PLA. Show for spirit.

Fully agree with you. Be sure you're making some real PLA stuff for ARMA2. I like your PLA infantry model and looks really awesome and realistic.

[fromz 2]

Thank manberries and Hongjian's attention

Currently I don't really have time on this mod, but I have a Chinese OH PLAMOD news webside here, If you have interest can read of my plan by Google translator.

1. I plan to made a relatively complete PLA combat platforms, contains whole new soldiers, small firearm system, land battle systems, fire support (Air and Land) system and UAV or unmanned combat aircraft (UCAV), explosion-proof robot, etc

2. As the auxiliary, I will make a complete, based on the real situation of the sino-indian boundary conflict campaign. Not like BF2, OFP: DR inside jolter-head type PLA. Maybe you guys think we Chinese are brainwashed, Like the North Korea, lol. I think we are not evil, but also not good reasons being a lamb.

3. If the above two objectives can not accomplish, due to reasons such as time, energy or anything else, This third goal I won't give up: use the WIP mod make movies and video demo works, as I know to come into contact with the PLA. It's my hobby.

I admit currently the weaponry of PLA is not good enough, but due to special reasons, many problem solutions is completely different to western countries. PLA is never win wars depend on absolute advantage in weapon system.

I personally think PLA's hard power is not very strong, but not very weak. But they have staunch fighting spirit. Maybe I'm wrong :)

I don't this MOD based on an "elite" divisions, the OHPLA will be a representative of a contemporary PLA troops.

J10 actually not in my production plan, the reason is very simple, ArmA2's world area it's just fit to CAS missions, like the BIS just make A10 and Su25, Q-5D/E(A-5), JH7A and Su30Mk2 is the most suitable for short, mid and long range CAS missions of Chinese Air force. I have already made the Q-5D/E,

If I have time, JH7A will be made, even the J10B fighter, hehe. ArmA2 is not LockOn, fighters is just minor role, am I right?

---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

Below is I want to make the list of PLA weapon system:

Soldiers

NOT based on my China Special Forces, http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=2463 , Whole new works, Include both combat branch.

Expected Highlight: Chinese (East-Asia) physique, Chinese face and language, Chinese military tactics animations creat by motion capture or Maya animation kits.

Small firearms

Based on my China Firearms http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=2424 , Rebuild many models and textures. not just only porting ArmA1 to ArmA2.

Expected Highlight: Based on public ballistic trajectory data, real look profile, adjustable rifle apertures, real battle sights. and also, real gunshot sounds.

The fierarms List

Pistol

QSZ92 5.8mm

QSW06 5.8mm

Submachine gun

QCW05 5.8mm

Assault rifle

QBZ95 5.8mm

QBZ95+QLG91B GL

QBZ95+3x optics sight

QBZ95+3x thermal sight

QBZ95B 5.8mm

QBZ03 5.8mm

QBZ03+3x optics sight

QBZ03+3x thermal sight

Type 81-1 7.62mm

Type 81-1+QLG91A GL

Machine gun

QBB95 5.8mm

QBB95+3x optics sight

QBB95+3x thermal sight

QJY88 5.8mm

QJY88+3x optics sight

QJY88+3x thermal sight

Marksman and sniper rifle

QBU88

QBU88 (with out optics) 5.8mm

Type 85 (Chinese SVD) 7.62mm

M99 12.7mm

Rocket / Missile launcher

PF89B 80mm

PF98 120mm

FN6 Anti-Air

Vehicle mount

QJZ89 12.7mm MG

QLZ87 35mm GL

Land battle systems

Transport - cars

EQ2050

EQ2050+QJZ89

EQ2050+QLZ87

BJ2022

BJ2022JLC

EQ2102 5T truck

EQ2102(A) Ammo truck

EQ2102® Repair truck

EQ2102(F) Fuel truck

Wheeled

ZSL92(G) 30mm cannon

ZSL92© Command

ZSL92(M) Medic

Tracked

ZBD2000

PGZ95

MBT

ZTZ99G (as known as the Type99 revise version)

Land fire support system

PLL05

PHL03 (Maybe)

Air fire support system

Z9

Z9WA

Q5E

Q5D

JH7A (Maybe)

J10B (Maybe)

Others

Huaying UAV

UCAV (Maybe)

Explosion-proof robot

[manberries 0]

Nice to hear all of that Fromz. I hope you find time to complete this great project

Just a few quick notes. Elite divisions does not refer to special forces, but to the part of the Chinese army considered properly trained, properly armed, and has enough support structure feeding it and arming it (The rest are reserves which china does not have the ammunition or supplies to activate the majority of them).

Also, I agree with your desire to only create CAS fighters. This makes great sense. However, the SU-30Mk2 is one of the longest range fighters and one of the most effective fighters out there. If your desire to focus on CAS role aircraft, you should probably ignore the SU-30MK2 (Su-34 is a different beast).

Another question, will you be creating the new QBZ-95 which is under development now? The original one had quite a bit of issues, most of these issues you could never see in Arma, but they may change the ergonomics which will change the appearance.

[fromz 2]

Another question, will you be creating the new QBZ-95 which is under development now? The original one had quite a bit of issues, most of these issues you could never see in Arma, but they may change the ergonomics which will change the appearance.

Of course, I'm creating the new model of QBZ95 for weeks, It's takes me a lot of time. but this time, pretty precise.

Same on shape, batter looking. I think you mean the QBZ95G, QBZ95G is still keep in dark. and never serve in the PLA, so I can't find any information on it.

Edited September 26, 2009 by fromz

[dm 9]

Looks awesome, pretty complete list of weapons and equipment too.

Lets hope someone creates a good campaign or so with them!

[roberthammer 582]

Wow what a nice gun :) (in real life i don't like that gun because how it looks) :D

btw that thing on the left in first pic is silencer? isnot too thin? :P

Edited September 25, 2009 by RobertHammer

[Hongjian 11]

There're a fanboy image of the QBZ-95G - but I think it would be better to wait for Oct. 1st Tienanmen Parade when they will present the real thing (second pic?).

Anyway. I'm happy that you decided to include the J-10B in your (maybe) to-do list. As this version would feature real multi-role capability which would enable credible CAS usability.

If not, the JianHong-7A Fighter-Bomber would be sufficient too, although I dont know wether it would be credible to have the regular PLA fighting in the Himalaja's against the Indian Army, while having CAS support by a Naval Bomber such as the JH-7A...

Nah, It's your choice :)

[fromz 2]

The QBZ95G maybe not show in the Oct. 1st Tienanmen Parade. I live in Beijing, I saw rehearsal past days, and didn't see any new QBZ95.

ARMA2 P3D viewer ingame picture of OH PLAMOD QBZ95 assault rifle.

Click to zoom

Click to zoom

[RUDOLF 9]

In parade, longer rifles, even outdated types, would look more awesome than that of short one although it's the latest design in PLA.

[Laqueesha 474]

That rifle looks amazing, keep up the good work! :D

Edited September 27, 2009 by Laqueesha

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I've got an idea for you Fromz. I'm an avid reader of military fiction and one of my personal favorites is Tom Clancy's "The Bear and The Dragon" That pits China against Russia.

The basic plot is China is that due to certain circumstances (Involving an accidental shooting of the Papal Nuncio to Beijing and a Chinese Baptist Minister) many nations impose a trade boycott on the PRC. The PRC therefore has to find a new source of Oil etc. They find it in Russia (Siberia to be exact) and after lengthy preparations they invade in an attempt to seize the oilfields.

Perhaps if a Russian or Siberian map is made down the road you could consider making a Chinese VS Russia campaign similar to the above storyline? Simplified of course.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Darkhorse 1-6

[manberries 0]

In order to keep the thread on track, I have placed my response to darkhorse under a spoiler banner. It contains my reasons for stating that a war between China and Russia is unrealistic, and how it would bother me if it went into the mod. If your immediate response is to take the thread off topic stating specific opposition to my thoughts on the actual situation, please do not expand the spoiler.

Darkhorse, while it is your full right to state your opinions and ideas, I must disagree. Russia and China are allies at least on the political standpoint. China would lose a lot of it global influence if it made an enemy out of Russia. Also, I have previously mentioned that many things in the Chinese army requires replacement parts that are built in Russia. IE many engines while being Chinese in design use a great number of Russian parts.

Also, while the Chinese military is in a better economic situation, the Russian military is still far better. Realistically, no military analyst in the world, China inclusive, would ever have China winning a war on the land with Russia. Sure, China's pilots have more flight hours, but those flight hours have not been proven to be effective training hours. Also, the Russian Airforce has far many more Su-27 and Mig-29 gen 4.5 aircraft than China has; MANY more. Anaylists agree that the flight hour advantage would not overcome the tech disadvantage. This is especially because flight hours may be low now, but the Russians have military veterans still flying and teaching the new. Historic wars have taught us all that a military who has actually been in a fight recently has a giant advantage over a better paid and armed one who has not. This goes for the entire Russian military. Most of the Chinese ground forces use Russian copied weapons. Even the new type 99 took a number of ideas and designs from the T-90. Despite all that extra production money, tests show the T-90 (especially if these are eventually upgraded with relikit) out classes the Type 99 in range, active defenses (shtora is far better than the Type99 infared confusion device). The bmp3 has better production quality than the Chinese copy, plus a few features that no one has figured out yet that explains the significantly more rha protection than the Chinese counter part. Finally, the stock piles of cruise missiles, laser guided weapons, and all manners of ammunition and ordinance is far greater in Russia than China. Once again, the Russian built ones are also battle tested. Funny thing is, China has very few indigenous ordinance stockpiles. Most of their Air to Air, Air to Surface, and Surface to Surface ordinance is Russian in origin.

This isn't a China vs Russia argument in-sighting post. It was an attempt to give some more complex explanation to why I, and most analysts, would see a war between Russia and China within the next 5-10 years absolutely unlikely, and a disaster for the Chinese overall should it happen. I am sure others would argue differently, or find some crackpot who believes himself an expert, to argue differently, however please refrain. My single point and summary of all that typing is, I would find such a campaign and scenario so horribly unrealistic, especially since arma doesn't properly represent so many weapon systems, that it would bother me so much I could scantly play it. That is just me and my OCD of course. It is, after all, just a game.

Edited September 27, 2009 by manberries

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Three things I would like to note: Notice I didn't say who won the war ;) and also the scenario I speak of had Chinese and Russian relations degrading severely over a 5-10 year span before the conflict.

Finally, the scenario had the Chinese going after the fairly unguarded oilfields because they only had a month or so of Oil in their "Strategic Reserve" once the current supply ran out (Maybe a month max).

*It was after all simply an idea for an alternate storyline once he completes the mod and planned campaign.*

[Defunkt 431]

Hmmm... China and Russia fighting over oil, where have I heard that premise before?

[stgn 39]

Looks nice but a suppressor has to cover the flash hider to work(it traps the heated gas coming out of the barrel). That setup you are doing there with grenade launcher and suppressor is an impossibility with that mount for the grenade launcher. If your going for realism that version should not be there. Also the suppressor seems too thin for a weapon of that caliber. I haven't seen a picture of a suppressor for the QBZ-95 but if you look at the one for the QCW-05 you will see the large diameter of the suppressor and that is for at less powerful cartridge.

STGN

[wld427 1705]

Hmmm... China and Russia fighting over oil, where have I heard that premise before?

one of my favorite books..... the bear and the dragon :)

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I'm a Tom Clancy/Dale Brown/W.E.B. Griffin nut. I'm looking forward to the Wings of Russia pack the OHMod and a separate Russian mod that is being developed-for several reasons. Those reasons include a grand vision of the invasion of Iceland from Red Storm, and me trying (probably failing) to recreate atleast part of The Bear and The Dragon. ;)

[Hongjian 11]

Nah. Fromz Idea was alright. A fictional conflict on the Chinese-Indian border, which would be at least the clostest thing to realism we have today, considering the antagonizing political statements from the Indian government and the overly nationalistic behavior of some PLA officers.

The Bear-and-Dragon thing wouldnt be realistic since China and Russia are engaged in a strategical partnership against Western (US) influences in cenral-asia under the umbrella of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation.

Furthermore, by reading this book, I can see that Tom Clancy, by all due respect, should stick to Russia/Soviet Union as antagonist. He just doesent know anything about the PLA and China's Political Agenda, I felt.

He believes that the ZTZ-99A is a Imported T-90 among other unprofessionalities and half-knowledge.

As for the numerical superiority of Western and Chinese flight hours over the Russians, one has to know that this doesent relate to the Pilots being lazy or unskilled or something.

The main reason is just simply Money and/or Technology: Western Airforces can just allow their Pilots to fly more hours a year because their engine's and airframe's life-span are longer than any eastern model.

For example the MiG-29's RD-33 Trubofan has only a life-expectancy of 2000 hours and the SU-27 AL-31FP has 3000 hours before overhaul, the Su-27 Airframe has a lifespan of just 6000 hours.

And as for China, they can just afford to train more because of their good economic condition, which allows them to pay for more engine-overhauls. Furthermore Chinese indegenious engines are based on mostly western-technology like the CFM56's compressor-core (which is engineered from a western civilian engine) in the WS-10A high-thrust turbofan. Also the Chinese Flankers, the J-11B in particular, has a completely restructured airframe with a high percentage of modern composite-materials adding another 10.000 hours of life-time onto the very potent Flanker Airframe, which also reduces the RCS to just >3 square meters vs. the 15 square meters of the original Su-27SK exported to China in 1996

Edited September 27, 2009 by Hongjian
data

[manberries 0]

I have to go right with you on all points there, Hongjian. The Su's (especially the export models, as the metallurgy on those are far worse) do require a significant amount of maintenance. Of course, these life spans really only relate to restructuring the airframe, not replacing it. In the US we base our life spans on the average time required for a total overhaul, not just a significant repair. Which explains a good amount of that discrepancy as well. One last note, by engines I was by far referring to ground engines (diesels and such, not jets). Like many countries, and ever more so China included, money in Russia is in short supply for military training and expansion. A true shame (from the Russian perspective) because the technology, history, and know how is all there just lacking the cash.

Edited September 27, 2009 by manberries

[fromz 2]

Operation Halfmoon PLA MOD for ArmAII

Light Weapon System (Part One, Finished) updated 1st Oct, 2009

====================== Pistols ======================

====================== Rifles ======================

[fromz 2]

====================== Machne Guns ======================

[fromz 2]

====================== Submachine Gun ======================

====================== Marksman Sinper ======================