Body armour - Helmets - Protection

[cartier90 0]

I have no military experience, but I do know that body armour given to troops is to stop multiple rounds of 7.62 , as for helmets - Im not so sure . In game at least, a centre mass hit or 2 is enough to kill. Surely this is not the case IRL. Is it possible for BIS to patch this - or perhaps no one is wearing any ?. The back of US forces have water pouches ...perhaps underneath ?

Is it possible for a modern US soldier, say in Iraq, to 'take' 3 or 4 7.62 rounds to the torso and continue to fight - admittedly with bruising. As for helmets, they seem to have little use in game.

[luckypsd 10]

The vests given to the guys in iraq are no where near what you need to stop a 7.62 round. If they were to wear protection to stop that kinda round they would be too restricted.

Scary enough the main use of the vests are to keep your inside bits on the inside if you do get unluck and catch one but they don't tell you that bit on the news do they ;-)

[cartier90 0]

I spose Ive seen too much 'future weapons' and other similar shows...it has to be said though, the mannequins are usually unharmed after rifle shots at close range. I suspect then helmets are just for 'flak' and not much use against a bullet, other than a lucky shallow deflection ?

[noobysnipa 10]

This video is quite old. But it shows you that body armour / bullet proof vest surely stops a bullet and gets you going again :)

[luckypsd 10]

Yup, get it square on in the lid and you will be going down no matter what. Alot of troops got a bollocking for taking them off because the advantage of wearing them was outweighed by the drawbacks.

But the same goes for vests too, it will of course lessen the impact,I think I have heard the words ballistic barrier being used in place of bullet proof for obvious reasons. I'd say the game was pretty close on the mark, not exact but I wouldn't like to try and guess the physics behind it all.

Video above, I read the round struck him in the equipment that he had rigged to the vest and he was still injured, just wasn't a fatal or fully debilitating hit was all.

[Beagle 684]

Depends on Ammunition. It is often forgotten that US and NATO Forces are currently confronted with very outdated weapons and ammunitions.

Modern Assault rifle ammunitions have a steel core to counter Body armour.

Helmets for sure cant stand such hits and if it can, your neck can't.

The point is: modern AR ammunition is made to make piercing possible.

Fact is that even the really weak military grade 5,45x39 (1300Joule) can penetrate 16mm of steel.

Regarding the bulletproofness...there is a lot of propaganda out there of the same kind as "invulnerable M1A2 tanks" or "SA-7 unable to shoot down US Helicopters"... no they simply crash for unknown reasons.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Beagle

[luckypsd 10]

Regarding the bulletproofness...there is a lot of propaganda out there of the same kind as "invulnerable M1A2 tanks" or "SA-7 unable to shoot down US Helicopters"... no they simply crash for unknown reasons.

Bingo, have 10 points :-)

[cartier90 0]

Holy shit nooby - good vid, Ida thought a sniper round was much too powerful for armour.

[luckypsd 10]

lol that wasn't a sniping rifle round.

[noobysnipa 10]

Of course you can't never get your body 100% shielded and safe. And it is not even reasonable to do that.

Anyway, could a decent pepperoni pizza be our solution for body armour?:

One more vid. Do you think any body armour could safe you in this kind of situation: :) http://splodetv.com/does-your-mortor-say-made-taiwan

Edited July 1, 2009 by noobysnipa

[BoxiouS 10]

One more vid. Do you think any body armour could safe you in this kind of situation: :) http://splodetv.com/does-your-mortor-say-made-taiwan

:eek: and :eek:

[LockDOwn 0]

I have no military experience, but I do know that body armour given to troops is to stop multiple rounds of 7.62 , as for helmets - Im not so sure . In game at least, a centre mass hit or 2 is enough to kill. Surely this is not the case IRL. Is it possible for BIS to patch this - or perhaps no one is wearing any ?. The back of US forces have water pouches ...perhaps underneath ?

Is it possible for a modern US soldier, say in Iraq, to 'take' 3 or 4 7.62 rounds to the torso and continue to fight - admittedly with bruising. As for helmets, they seem to have little use in game.

Great post and something I wish BIS did as well.

The marines in the game are fully equipped but die just as fast as a militiaman with a t-shirt on!

This, with true armor ballistics as found in www.battlegroundeurope.com, MUST be added in ARMA III

[wipman 1]

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[maniac86 0]

The vests given to the guys in iraq are no where near what you need to stop a 7.62 round. If they were to wear protection to stop that kinda round they would be too restricted.

Scary enough the main use of the vests are to keep your inside bits on the inside if you do get unluck and catch one but they don't tell you that bit on the news do they ;-)

Wrong again my friend, the vests theme selves (including the bicep, throat and groin protection (the simple layered Kevlar) are meant for stopping small shrapnel and pistol rounds, the PLATES that go into the armor (front, back, left and right side) are rated to stop rifle rounds, upto and including 7.62, in fact I distinctly remember getting my plates at Ft. Benning while leaving for Iraq and they are spray painted in the inside "ARMY SAPI PLATE BACK 7.62" and the front actually said "ARMY SAPI PLATE SIDE MEDIUM STRIKE FACE" and the plates are made to resist as much as three rapid 7.62 impacts, dont listen to the news when they act like we fight in Iraq with 40 year old equipment.

No "bullet proof" vest is rifle proof, its the plates that go inside that do that job. And when it comes down to it, body armor cant get much bulkier, its already limiting movement to the point where any more tradeoffs on mobility are not worth the protection, personally I never wore my right SAPI plate or shoulder protector (I shoot right handed, so aiming, most of my left side would be exposed)

instead I opted for a "stock holder" which is basically just a 7 x 3 inch textured rubber piece that you can seat your rifle but against to make sure it doesn't slide off (a surprising problem with larger body armor)

Also Kevlar helmets can again, stop pistol rounds, light shrapnel, but are not officially rated to stop a rifle round (though i have seen many test videos of them stopping or bouncing bullets, its not to the MILSPEC that is required to be rifle proof rated.

Edited July 2, 2009 by maniac86
more info

[max power 21]

Whether body armour will stop rifle rounds depends on the range, the condition of the bullets, whether or not the soldier is wearing the additional boron carbide plates, etc.

Helmets will stop fragments and ricochets and that sort of thing, but the technology doesn't exist to make helmets that are light enough to wear on the head while dense enough to afford protection against rifle shots.

[Windexglow 10]

Even if the bullet does go through the armor, it's probably going to do less damage than it would have without the armor.

[ReiKuhr 0]

Everything depends on how far away the shooter is, the caliber, the amount of powder charge, angle, aimpoint.

Body armor may intend to protect the person, but in reality, it's there to limit the amount of damage done. To put it this way, if you're going to get hit with a bullet, it's better if you can slow it down before it hits your body, to limit penetration and damage from hydrostatic shock.

Oh and yes, if you get shot, even if it doesnt make it through, there is still enough kinetic force to break bones, especially without ceramic plates.

[Murklor 10]

Even if the bullet does go through the armor, it's probably going to do less damage than it would have without the armor.

I honestly dont think the amount of damage if it goes through matter as its still gonna be either lethal or non-lethal...

Personally, I think its high time we start wearing power armor.

[Beagle 684]

Another fact is that there are no vests in service to stop a steel core 7.62x51with a Muzzle Energy of 3500Joule. Thats why we see the reintroduction of this caliber in automatic rifles theses days.

I love the MK48 and DMR in ArmA, but I would rather like to have the good old G3A3 back in Game.

I never liked it to switch to the small caliber and leightweight G36 in 1996.

The G3A3 was big fun to scare US Soldiers at the shooting range that were used to the mild recoil of their M16s.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Beagle

[sitting.duck 10]

I just remebered seeing this on the news a while back what a lucky sod he is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8007565.stm

Edited July 2, 2009 by sitting.duck

[HtB 10]

Gah, Body Armour? When i joined we didnt have it, if it was likely to get 'hairy' then we'd stick on another sweatshirt.

[Beagle 684]

We had to wear this simple "Flak Vests" back in 1993. Sometimes someone collapsed in the hot sommer while on guard duty.

[Sabbathius 10]

Don't know about realism of armor or helmets, but when in the demo a moving jeep's machinegunner easily shoots me in the face when I'm prone 600m away, I don't think armor is a factor. :eek:

[Beagle 684]

Don't know about realism of armor or helmets, but when in the demo a moving jeep's machinegunner easily shoots me in the face when I'm prone 600m away, I don't think armor is a factor. :eek:

In this case it is not, but to keep moving might help. Mounted MGs are very precise to handle.

[Sulu 10]

I watched Weaponology the other day and they shot a WW2 era rifle (allied or axis I can't remember) and it went through the front of the kevlar helmet and out the back as well. That isn't to say that the helmets won't save lives however. Superior training in the UK and US forces as well as the armour keeps more people alive