Grass on or off?

[koroush47 10]

Yes. More tactics because you can hide yourself much better.

Only in close range.

[whisper 0]

He said more realistic in small sized missions, ie mission where grass is rendered most of the time ;)

[galzohar 31]

What missions have engagements at less than 50 meters most of the time? I just can't think of any area in the game where this is possible unless you build a CQB area yourself with editor/script-placed objects... The default maps have very little cover and thus force engagement ranges to be rather long even inside towns/cities.

[l mandrake 9]

Qwertt's mission 'War 3-Front' has an option for 100/75/50/25/0% grass so you can choose what you want at mission start - this is the best solution I have seen so far.

[galzohar 31]

Perhaps this should be a standard option now that the number of mission parameters isn't limited.

[Langnasen 10]

I voted for no grass, much as it looks nice. In MP it's hinders the player's LoS and gives a false sense of security, while anyone looking at you from a distance away sees you as if you were laying on a billiard-table.

It has always been my suggestion to devs that whenever a player goes prone in grass the engine should generate his own personal patch of the stuff around him. Similar patches should also be generated at random permanently, so that the player doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and still immediately become spottable.

[mattxr 9]

I think it should be off, as some players have it off anyways with client side mods, may as well make it all fare.

[InFireBaptize 0]

didn't vote because low grass option is not there. It doesn't look good without the grass and it kills your fps with high grass, very simple.

[galzohar 31]

It doesn't look good without grass, but with grass on you still only see grass in a ~40m radius around you and the rest of the terrain is just as ugly.

[enforcer1975 0]

Grass makes the game look better, at the cost of frames.

Imho it's better to turn grass of anyway. It's useless if it's not rendered beyond 200m and for the guys who think they have cover while beeing prone..yes, but only at close distance and only with a ghillie suit. From far away it's like you are in a spotlight, the same as without grass.

@ Matt

Useless if the server doesn't allow client mods.

@ Langnasen

If i assume correct if a player goes prone he will have grass around him? It's even worse. You can tell by "spots" of grass that somebody is hiding in the grass. :D

[galzohar 31]

It's not rendered beyond ~40-50m... Not even close to 200m. Often if you want to kill an AI, you have to make sure you are far enough away from him so that grass doesn't block him from your view, as after all he will often seen you through grass while you never will see him.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

So why let him get off a steady shot? Let loose those SAWs. Most likely you're going to hit him just by firing a lot in the general area, and if not he's gonna be so supressed he can't aim.

Use that slightly unrealistic increased AI dispersion mod. Now we get the advantage on distance, they get the advantage up close and in the grass.

I agree it's not the best solution and something should be done about it. But turning off grass makes camouflage completely useless. Camo combined with grass and shadows, it's amazing even though biased towards the AI.

I use some sort of lower vegetation mod, which helps a bit but not completely.

No grass lets you choose highly unrealistic avenues of approach.

We had a hell of a time finding an AI that had snuck up on our Domination MHQ. On each teleport/respawn - brrmmmm - killed! He was very close, where camo, grass, and shadow rendered him almost completely invisible. Frustrating as hell, yes. But the fault was all our own, allowing the situation to develop in the first place (too close MHQ parking place, common problem).

Btw, that version enforces grass, nobody can simply turn it off for convenience reasons. However, we now allow 3rd person (mostly due to vehicle issues) but not weapon cursors. With 3rd person to replace no grass, you shouldn't get in the same disadvantage, while the grass works wonders for close quarters.

Sure, I wish it drew further.

[galzohar 31]

Grass in this game has absolutely nothing to do with camouflage. If anyone is actually far enough for camouflage to matter, grass will not be drawn.

AI already are much stronger in short range compared to long range, you don't need addons to enhance that.

It's not about letting him get that steady shot or not, it's that even if you have perfect conditions you're simply not going to be able to steady your weapon like that, and that messes up the gameplay bigtime. Just plain unrealistic, especially with heavier weapons.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

As I said, this was on very close range. He was hiding in the grass. If grass had been off, finding hime wouldn't have been a problem at all. Trust me, I was amazed at what I saw. Might have been a lucky position or something I don't know. I wish I had fraps up and running.

The point I was getting at was supression. It works against the AI (although you have to land your bullets too close for it to work, for my personal taste), and will mess up his aim and actions. But most people I see on public servers at least only shoot when they have a well defined target in the scope.

I agree both players and AI should have increased weapon sway, especially when there is combat near (except your own firing), and not only when you're actually being supressed.

We tried that increasedAI dispersion mod, but will remove it. The handshake would make one AI (MG or AR, not sure) kill off two of his own team members before he got bullets near us. And even if we didn't fire back, it would take him ages just to land a hit.

[enforcer1975 0]

As I said, this was on very close range. He was hiding in the grass. If grass had been off, finding hime wouldn't have been a problem at all. Trust me, I was amazed at what I saw. Might have been a lucky position or something I don't know. I wish I had fraps up and running.

If it were a human, and that was the title of the thread ( PvP, not vs AI ) the guy in the gras would barely see anything either ( assuming there is no 3rd person view on ) and he would have needed to at least go to a kneeling position to get a shot. Most players would not let you that close unless you come from their blind spot or in my case hiding in a bush, letting you pass to shoot you in the back :D ). Most players tend to fire at great distances with a bigger chance of missing and telling away their position.

[MortenS 0]

I think you can deactivate grass on the server, but some missions has this coded in so it will always be there.

I don't see why it's even possible to have grass visible, as you mention, it can't be seen by the enemy. So you're only tricked into thinking you're covered.

If it first shall be there, people hiding in it should remain hidden even when the grass isn't rendered.

[galzohar 31]

You can only deactivate grass via scripting, never server settings. You can set the view distance on the server, which applies if the mission doesn't set view distance at all.

[enforcer1975 0]

I hope they add the option "grass layer" for the next patch. No need for "grass on" and you still have a bit of visible cover like in A1.

[Rex Ursus 10]

In my opinion, If the ai is involved there is no point in having grass as the ai can see you as if there was no grass.

[mon_diesle 10]

I think unless we get to a point where all grass is displayed as far out as you can see, grass is an unfair advantage to any attacking team. You can sit on a hill and pick off some poor guy who thinks he's hidden, but you're more than 200m away.

Since he's prone, for example, he thinks he's hidden and can't see you. However you can clearly see him. Crappy.