realistic carnage

[mcbane 0]

Personally, I think it's pretty unforgiveable and unacceptable that we don't have ANY sort of ragdoll physics in the game. I thought this stuff was standard. More gore isn't necessarily needed, but the ragdoll + death animation in games like L4D are amazingly realistic.

[vshadow 0]

Admittedly I can see both sides of this argument.

On the wanting of more realistic wounding, it could be useful for identifying what had attacked an area, and help prepare for it attacking you later. Could also, as already said, help make a more interesting medic system, how wounded is this person, do they need hospital help not field.

But on the negatives, you got problems with ratings (its only 16+ in the UK), the people who have been there and seen it for real, not wanting to relive the gore horrors (I know a few people that are this way, like the fun of the fight but not the after effects), and then you have the people who get easily ill and happen to be eating while playing. :rolleyes:

All in all it could be useful but then again it might not it would all depend on the way it was implemented. Personally I would not mind an in-between, that at least suggested what kind of attack took place, also has anyone noticed how bodies are never in burning cars? Would that be implemented with a more in-depth wounding system to help keep the kill total? So you know the crew aren’t running around.

Honestly though at moment I don’t really find too much need for it though I have to admit it could be said that it lets the game down ever so slightly.

[nodunit 397]

Personally, I think it's pretty unforgiveable and unacceptable that we don't have ANY sort of ragdoll physics in the game. I thought this stuff was standard. More gore isn't necessarily needed, but the ragdoll + death animation in games like L4D are amazingly realistic.

Standard in a standard game but this isn't your standard game.

I understand the veterans not wishing to relive past horrors and the squeemish not wishing to see it but most thinking of this are on the wrong track. Something like this would be client side, not server, therefore if somebody wanted it not everyone has to have it...think of it as a sort of replacement pack.

You can use different unit BDU's, on one persons side you might see something different from the norm and the only way you might know is that the server might say 'uses modified file' that is about it and for that reason I'm really for or against this idea because in the end if somebody has it I won't necessarily see it unless I use it.

Also if you are looking into a more in depth wounding/medic system, keep tabs on ACE 2.

Edited June 27, 2009 by NodUnit

[chaplainDMK 10]

I wouldnt mind having gore, since its realy unrealistic to have people "just die" when something like a 120 mm HEAT round blows up inside their humvee or in their face...

Brothers In Arms (RtH30 & EiB) had that kind of gore in cutscenes (a team mate gets hit by a bomb from a stuka and when you see his insides and ribs showing you think abit how sick war is).

I dont mean like i shoot a guy with my M16 and have random bits of leg, arms, guts and stuff flying off. Just for extreme cases with high explosives at very close range (make a death texture that shows insides and brains myb...).

You got countless war victims with legs, arms, jaws blown off. Hell, in many cases inocents step on mines, find themselfs in the wrong place etc.

---------- Post added at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 AM ----------

If its gore you want - make an addon and have fun. No one is stopping you if thats what you want. We mature simmers dont need to stop and go "wow look he doesnt have any arms huh huh huh". Take the target down and move on.

What are you supposed to achieve with dismemebered bodies? If its realism your after "cause thats what happens in real life" then i still dont get it as it doesnt add anything gameplay wise. Its a game so it wont make you sick or shocked wich real life would. Thats why i miss the point other than childish laughing while an arm goes off etc. Thats not how I play or anyone i know when it comes to ARMA.

Im not a squeemish person and i enjoy other games with a lot of bang and blood. but i just fail to see what it adds in a realistic combat sim. Like i said - eye candy that doesnt do anything for the gameplay isnt much use to me. Note the "me" in that scentense. There are far more important things that could be implemented that isnt at this point.

But If you want it - start making a mod and have fun. Thats why ARMA is so great isnt it - you can do what the hell you want with it.

Alex

Ok, then ill make all units sprites since graphics are only eye candy (soldiers will look like the guys in mutiwinia), when you shoot anything it will just fall over like the targets in the tutorial, the explosions will look like something out of a cartoon, there wont be any embarkment, disembarkment animation, your guy will just sit there for X ammount of seconds, medics will go to a guy and stand there for X seconds etc.

All of the above is just raw features, the animations, nice graphics are just eye candy, but i doubt youd feal very in to it if it looked like that, now woud you?

Edited June 28, 2009 by chaplainDMK

[CarlGustaffa 4]

You miss the point. We all like realism, but adding dismemberment (despite being real in some cases) causes even more stupid players. It doesn't matter it I can turn it off, it still causes the new kid on the block to turn it on and waste his last ammo clip to see an arm fly. Which naturally ruins it for me if I happen to be in the same unit.

Now we kill and have realistic animations, in order to stay alive. And despite not being ragdoll, it serves the purpose of them looking dead, and realistically so. Ragdoll has been discussed to death why it can't be in the game, I suggest ragdoll fans do a search on the subject.

[Beagle 684]

With gore effects added this game would be unselable in most european countries. Naked women would be no problem, but overexegeratet violence would be. The game would be indexed in just e few weeks and in consequence removed from the store shelves and from amazon to.

currently ist has a 16 age rating as it is.

[Linelor 10]

I don't want to see gore, it's never done right. I would have really liked to just see bullets holes where the round impacts though. Decals aren't that hard to do BI...

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Yeah, I get bullet holes on my body from WP burns :)

[vshadow 0]

To be honest, I think having the bullet holes where you are actually hit might be more of a priority least you can find the direction you were shot from.

And for situations where bombs are dropped or high explosives, just do a “pink mist†animation as that not to gory and gets the point across.

Not that I’m encouraging more gore or anything :j:

[guiltyspark 10]

You miss the point. We all like realism, but adding dismemberment (despite being real in some cases) causes even more stupid players.

lol wut?

how does this logic work?

---------- Post added at 03:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

I don't want to see gore, it's never done right. I would have really liked to just see bullets holes where the round impacts though. Decals aren't that hard to do BI...

its been done right in a few games actually

check out red orchestra

High exlosive effects

High caliber weapon effects

(keep in mind thats an anti tank rifle)

Small arms effects

[chaplainDMK 10]

lol wut?

how does this logic work?

---------- Post added at 03:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

its been done right in a few games actually

check out red orchestra

High exlosive effects

High caliber weapon effects

(keep in mind thats an anti tank rifle)

Small arms effects

Stupid players like sick shit, gore and stuff like that attracts them like flys to crap...

But they will still go away, maybe one in those 1000 twats will become a good tactical player. Its the same with graphics, it attracts people, but they will go away soon so its only good.

And that RO gore is very nice...

[guiltyspark 10]

Stupid players like sick shit, gore and stuff like that attracts them like flys to crap...

But they will still go away, maybe one in those 1000 twats will become a good tactical player. Its the same with graphics, it attracts people, but they will go away soon so its only good.

And that RO gore is very nice...

can you explain to me what a stupid player is?

And after that could you explain what makes them automatically like gore thus making them "stupid players".

I like gore in my video games when it makes sense , im not stupid.

Video games are for entertainment , arma is no exception.

People on these forums put themselves on too big of a pedestal and are pretty shallow to believe that they are "better" or "more smart" than other gamers based on their taste with video games.

And thinking that realistic violence (IE gore) would somehow lower the amount of fun a serious mil simmer would have with the game is frankly....

well... stupid....

[nodunit 397]

As Carl said, basicly wasting ammo to disembowel, dismember or in some form cause more needless gore effects.

Basicly instead of the 1 or so shots to kill them even after they are dead that person would waste a whole magazine just to see the gore effects.

[chaplainDMK 10]

can you explain to me what a stupid player is?

And after that could you explain what makes them automatically like gore thus making them "stupid players".

I like gore in my video games when it makes sense , im not stupid.

Video games are for entertainment , arma is no exception.

People on these forums put themselves on too big of a pedestal and are pretty shallow to believe that they are "better" or "more smart" than other gamers based on their taste with video games.

And thinking that realistic violence (IE gore) would somehow lower the amount of fun a serious mil simmer would have with the game is frankly....

well... stupid....

Stupid players= twats that wont help your team, team kill just so they can see brains fly, use up rockets to blast apart people for the fun of it, place stachel charges on bodies etc...

Imagine, your on a CO-OP, evreyone exept one guy is a good team players, the mission requires silence and minimal noise, then he goes and blows up a body with a nade just to see its insides, and then you have 4 T90s, 2 Hinds and 100 russian soldiers roling over your heads... What would you call him? Smart? Inteligent? Enlightened? Or Stupid? Retarded? Asshole?

I wouldnt mind gore, i think it adds to the realism, im just saying that it attracts people like the ones i stated above.

But since most of those players are first timers to OFPesque games they might like them and become team players capish?

Edited June 29, 2009 by chaplainDMK

[Deathstruck 375]

As Carl said, basicly wasting ammo to disembowel, dismember or in some form cause more needless gore effects.

Basicly instead of the 1 or so shots to kill them even after they are dead that person would waste a whole magazine just to see the gore effects.

So what ? It's THE PERSON, not you, you musn't mutilate, decapitate the dead body.

I don't understand why is all of suddenly everybody going "ultra-mature" on this. Sure, I don't want bloody mess everytime I fire a bullet, BUT if the gore is well implemented and balanced, then I don't mind.

Gore doesn't automaticly equal "stuff for young stupid inmature idiots" as the "person" above me is trying to say. Right ?

Edited June 29, 2009 by Salvatore_Lee

[CarlGustaffa 4]

lol wut?

how does this logic work?

The logic works as explained already in the rest of the paragraph which you didn't qoute...

Gore doesn't automaticly equal "stuff for young stupid inmature idiots" as the "person" above me is trying to say. Right ?

You don't play a lot on public servers do you? It's filled with stupid players already, just check the multiplayer forums for complaints about public gameplay.

Arma is a tactical shooter. Gore doesn't add anything to the tactical level. I wouldn't mind more gore at all, for the sake of having more gore. But I object strongly because of the playstyle it would attract. Having to choose between the two, I choose the latter.

[TristanYockell 0]

I was always given the impression that ARMA was geared towards realism. And for the most part gameplay wise it is, although I do have some gripes.

Visually however the realism is lacking, as others have stated. Red Orchestra level Carnage would be a proper representation for ARMA 2 I would think.

Most of us I think can Agree that it is not wanted to fill some twisted fantasy or craving for gore. It is to cater towards the need for a completed and authentic modern combat simulator.

When you open up on infantry with heavy weapons and they honestly look like they tripped and fell on a tomato it is quite ridiculous sometimes.

It also makes me feel sort of odd when I watch the horrid reload animations. I own my fair share of firearms and I'm sorry but these animations have plauged this series for far too long.

Whenever I watch my character reload I'm automatically thinking, "hey, you sure you know how to use that son?'.

They always look like they are swating at flies, and stroking/polishing their irons, not to mention the reload sounds are off as well and have no syncronization with the anims.

P.S.

This is not ment to disrespect the developers in anyway. ARMA 2 is an amazing game and I thank the DEVS for all of their hard work and time.

Hopefully the Modders can sort out some of these Bloopers.

Edited June 30, 2009 by TristanYockell

[Sabrefox 0]

When I first read the title of this thread, I laughed a little, then on a second though, I actually agree.

Simply as this would work both in being more realistic and more fun from a gameplay point of view.

[chaplainDMK 10]

So what ? It's THE PERSON, not you, you musn't mutilate, decapitate the dead body.

I don't understand why is all of suddenly everybody going "ultra-mature" on this. Sure, I don't want bloody mess everytime I fire a bullet, BUT if the gore is well implemented and balanced, then I don't mind.

Gore doesn't automaticly equal "stuff for young stupid inmature idiots" as the "person" above me is trying to say. Right ?

I am saying that as much as i like gore, people that play cod will much rather make a 3x5 m blood bath with guts and stuff then supress an enemy.

Most people on this forum wouldnt mind gore, just some more hyper twitch players wont care bout team play and much rather disembowel a enemy...

[spandrel 10]

Original Poster may be missing the fact that part of the point of these games is as military propaganda. As is, it's a nice, sanitized recruitment poster.

[Macadam Cow 1]

I read the original post with a little smile on my face and I was thinking : "yeah, it could be cool"

Then I thought about ArmA III and I realise it was some kind of neverending expectation. Starting from a realistic point of vue, yes, it's a missing part.

But do not forget ArmA remains a game, a simulation game. Not a simulator of real life. If you ask for dismembrements in ArmA2 because of realism, for ArmA3 you will probably ask to see the belly falling apart under a MG burst letting us see the guts spreading on the ground, because it's realist.

I guess you see the picture, for ArmA4 people will ask for stomach bile,...

Maybe it wouldn't have been so problematic 10 years ago but I think with the level of graphical improvement, letting us enjoying some photo-realistic expericence, gore have do be reduced to minimum.

In my opinion, the more the games tend to be photo-realist, the less the people should want to see gore into it.

Games are not made to provide that kind of stuff, and even less make them funny (because worst things can be really funny behind a screen)

Maybe VBS should integrate those things but I'm against it with ArmA.

But I totally agree with the idea of disappearing bodies with big explosion and the other of making enemies's gear unusable. Wonderful ideas !

EDIT :

I'd like to add there's the sound aspect too. If you ask for dismembrements I guess you probably would like to see and hear the reaction of the guy who just lost a member, something a bit more elaborate than just "oh shit my arm".

I don't know if you have already heard someone screamings with his guts (not his lungs, not his stomac, his guts). I do (nothing to do with war, a guy had his anckles crushed, about 3 meters from me, they were forming an angle of more than 90° with his legs). It's absolutly traumatizing, nothing compare to the hollywoodians screamings, nothing compare to what you could hear on youtube or something like that. It just has nothing human in such a scream, it freezes your blood right away. I hope I'll never ever hear that sound again. Specially not in a game where I want to have fun, not trauma

Excuse my local english :D

Edited July 10, 2009 by Macadam Cow

[bigpickle 0]

Add gore, it needs it, doesn't have to be over kill excuse the pun but it is needed I think.

Forget those who want more more gore to excessive levels, ArmA has those people already so saying it would only attract them is not true, they are here already.

I personally agree that it is one of the major things that Arma does lack to complete its realistic setting.

I think that people should lay off OS for making this suggestion post. Clearly some have said no no no! with excess of reasons why, mostly because "those sort" of people "we" don't want in hear etc

Well my friends its about not changing the game you say, that's a bit selfish in my book.

At the end of the day no one can dispute that RO type gore is respectable and not over kill.

BIS could develop a DLC gore package or the community could if the engine allowed it, with similar levels to RO gore.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Bigpickle

[PuFu 4600]

From forum rules:

10) Do not dig up old threads

Threads older than 4 months should not be dug up unless something significant is being added. If in doubt as to what is "significant", contact a moderator and they will give you their opinion. As always old threads will remain open or be closed at the moderator's discretion. Digging up an old thread simply to ask "any news" is also not acceptable, PM the thread starter or mod leader to ask.

07.02.2009 - 29.11.2010 - do the math

Edited November 29, 2010 by PuFu

[hellfire257 3]

Obsequious much?

Red Orchestra had a good system that was realistic too (I think). The only problem I can see with it is mainly engine limitations, which is a shame really. However I am content with what we have already.

[HyperU2 11]

SLX has some good gore, I love having it. It's not overdone, and sometimes you never notice it at all. When it does happen it's more of a shock, as it should be. I'd love to see it as a standard.