Radiosound + Mouse Lag Problem

[Alex72 1]

Did you test disable "ENHANCE MOUSE POINTER" in windows control panel - mouse? Can also disable Triple Buffering through Nvidia Control Panel to test. Even mess with VSYNC ON/OFF.

And if nothing of that works i think you have to face it - your pc isnt strong enough to run ARMA2 without lag. OR optimization is needed if you do have a strong pc and still mouse lag. But test the mouse enhancer thingy.

Worked for me and some friends.

[ExiledLife 10]

I can't play anything without normal mouse acceleration on, it just feels so strange so that fix is out for me.

[DJ_9mm 10]

i'm having the same mouse lag problems with the demo. it's not *just* lag though. it's also a lack of fine control. it's impossible to move the aiming reticle less than about 10 pixels at a time for me. if i move my optical trackball as slowly and carefully as i can, the reticle won't move less than 10 pixels at a time. this makes it very hard to aim, especially through the sniper scope. the aim is jumping around in steps, instead of moving slowly. i also get this effect in the game menus. the mouse cursor jiggles and doesn't move smoothly. yes, i have tried using other mice, and disabling "fine control" in the control panel, and playing with the sensitivity sliders, and everything else suggested in this thread. i play a lot of other FPS games, and do not have this problem. before you go blaming my hardware, consider this: my setup works fine for every other game out there, even ones where i can't get good FPS (e.g. crysis2). if all the other games got it right, how come ARMA2 can't? i won't buy this game until this issue has been fixed. you hear me, BI?

[Leopardi 0]

Did you test disable "ENHANCE MOUSE POINTER" in windows control panel - mouse? Can also disable Triple Buffering through Nvidia Control Panel to test. Even mess with VSYNC ON/OFF.

And if nothing of that works i think you have to face it - your pc isnt strong enough to run ARMA2 without lag. OR optimization is needed if you do have a strong pc and still mouse lag. But test the mouse enhancer thingy.

Worked for me and some friends.

This doesn't have anything to do with the mouse smoothing that is causing the mouse lag. There is no fix, except buy a PC that runs ARMA2 constantly over 100 FPS, or BIS does something to this issue which could only happen in your dreams.

[rowdied 44]

Because of the nature of the behavior. There seem to be two camps of people: 1) People who notice it even when their performance is flawless, and 2) People who don't notice it when their performance is flawless. I think so far everyone who has poor performance says they suffer from some form of mouse lag. If I'm wrong, fine -- then there are three camps of people.

I guess I belong to the third camp that has no problems, and neither of us is wrong or right until BIS states officially that there is some form of mouse control.

Finally, I wouldn't call the problem "mouse lag" anyway. It's more of a "floaty mouse" that has some kind of weight to it.

It does seem like this and maybe becuase of the way the camera treats first and third person POV. In the shooters I play, 1st POV looking through the reticule is actually the screen with a scope. When you move the scope, the whole screens moves because it is one. Kinda like holding up a piece of paper with a red dot in the center. When you move it, the whole paper and red dot move as one. But in Arma and Arma2, the screen feels like it is not attached to the reticule and that you are looking through a window with the scope on the other side. Hence maybe the feeling of mouse acceleration and mouse lag, which might be more noticeable to people who have played the games you have (twitch shooters) where you need the instant and accurate movement to stay alive. Therefore playing them alot causes this movement to become second nature and becomes alot more noticable when you pick up a slower more tactical based game where shooting and moving the quickest doesn't necessarily mean you will live and that might be where some might perceive the mouse lag/acceleration as a problem and others don't.

And then again, I might be talking out of my ass. But I do know when I play some of the other shooters, I have to turn my mouse settings down because I find the mouse spins to fast and I can't get a good bead on targets moving or not. One reason why I prefer PC to xbox shooters.

[Azul 10]

I'm massively annoyed. This game seems to be brilliant, and to be honest I enjoy the comedy value of the radio communications.

But this horrendous mouse lag is excruciating.

And by the way, for those saying "oh, it's realism, you're turning with a 90kg weapon!", er, you realise it's exactly the same for when you're aiming with a pistol, right?

But yeah, I was hoping with the patch they'd at least done something to lessen this terrible lag effect, but alas, nay. I really, really want to love this game, and I know I would if this issue was sorted.

[Alex72 1]

Did you test disable "ENHANCE MOUSE POINTER" in windows control panel - mouse? Can also disable Triple Buffering through Nvidia Control Panel to test. Even mess with VSYNC ON/OFF.

Just bumping my post as no one say they tested this.

PS. Everything will get better with time. Just chill. Its annoying seeing posts like yours. Im sorry but lashing out like that seems so childish. Check ACE2 full conversion addon out wich comes in a couple of months. The feature list is from ArmA1 and will most definatelly be longer in ARMA2. It deals with weight as well in a realistic manner.

Link: ACE1 FEATURES

[Leopardi 0]

Did you test disable "ENHANCE MOUSE POINTER" in windows control panel - mouse? Can also disable Triple Buffering through Nvidia Control Panel to test. Even mess with VSYNC ON/OFF.

Just bumping my post as no one say they tested this.

Mouse acceleration has nothing to do with mouse smoothing in the game which is the cause for mouse lag. It does not fix the bug. Confirmed not working.

[Alex72 1]

Confirmed working for a lot of people. Then its down to that you want BF2 handling. Sorry you aint gonna get that.

[hi.c 10]

Confirmed working for a lot of people. Then its down to that you want BF2 handling. Sorry you aint gonna get that.

After 19 pages of this thread you still do not understand what this issue is? :rolleyes:

It has nothing to do with mouse sensitivity. It has nothing to do with view bob. It has nothing to do with the way the in-game reticle works, OR the way the first-person weapon viewmodel "lags" behind a change in view to simulate weapon movement. I have no idea what you mean by "BF2 handling" - maybe you mean a mouse input that lets one move the view in a responsive way? Sure, who wouldn't want that?

The problem is forced always-on mouse smoothing combined with the forced acceleration. Turning off cursor acceleration in Windows doesn't necessarily affect mouse accel in a game. In most games that default to mouse accel on, you have to force it off in their own config files. Just windows setting isn't enough. If you still don't realize this is a problem, consider this:

When I move my mouse an inch to the right in any other game, I know about how many degrees of rotation my character's view will move. With acceleration forced on by game devs, I have no way of telling - it depends on how fast the game thought I moved the mouse. The problem is compounded when they throw smoothing on top. Input smoothing, or averaging, feels much better on an analog stick than no smoothing, but with a mouse you totally destroy the precision it gives you by smoothing out the input data from it.

Saying that you don't need a responsive mouse input because this is a slower paced tactical game is like saying you don't need any hands to play Monopoly because your turns are long enough to use your toes.

You aren't bothered by this drawback and don't recognize it even as a feature that should have a toggle option. You guys can make as many snide comments as you want, but when a dev markets a product with such an elementary flaw, I have no interest in rewarding it with my money. I really wanted to get into this game, but in its current state, buying it and hoping for a fix down the road seems absurd.

Edit: my current theory about why mouse smooth+accel is more noticeable at lower than a constant 80-100fps or so is because the smoothing code uses a set number of frames and not a given timeframe. If your input is being averaged out over a longer time period (fewer frames at low fps) then it would logically feel more sluggish.

Edited July 1, 2009 by hi.c

[jmc007 10]

After 19 pages of this thread you still do not understand what this issue is? :rolleyes:

It has nothing to do with mouse sensitivity. It has nothing to do with view bob. It has nothing to do with the way the in-game reticle works, OR the way the first-person weapon viewmodel "lags" behind a change in view to simulate weapon movement. I have no idea what you mean by "BF2 handling" - maybe you mean a mouse input that lets one move the view in a responsive way? Sure, who wouldn't want that?

The problem is forced always-on mouse smoothing combined with the forced acceleration. Turning off cursor acceleration in Windows doesn't necessarily affect mouse accel in a game. In most games that default to mouse accel on, you have to force it off in their own config files. Just windows setting isn't enough. If you still don't realize this is a problem, consider this:

When I move my mouse an inch to the right in any other game, I know about how many degrees of rotation my character's view will move. With acceleration forced on by game devs, I have no way of telling - it depends on how fast the game thought I moved the mouse. The problem is compounded when they throw smoothing on top. Input smoothing, or averaging, feels much better on an analog stick than no smoothing, but with a mouse you totally destroy the precision it gives you by smoothing out the input data from it.

Saying that you don't need a responsive mouse input because this is a slower paced tactical game is like saying you don't need any hands to play Monopoly because your turns are long enough to use your toes.

You aren't bothered by this drawback and don't recognize it even as a feature that should have a toggle option. You guys can make as many snide comments as you want, but when a dev markets a product with such an elementary flaw, I have no interest in rewarding it with my money. I really wanted to get into this game, but in its current state, buying it and hoping for a fix down the road seems absurd.

Edit: my current theory about why mouse smooth+accel is more noticeable at lower than a constant 80-100fps or so is because the smoothing code uses a set number of frames and not a given timeframe. If your input is being averaged out over a longer time period (fewer frames at low fps) then it would logically feel more sluggish.

Amen to that Brother.:o

[Bulldogs 10]

I tweaked mine up, now my mouse is as smooth and accurate as BF2, but the tweaks don't work for everyone unfortunately.

[rowdied 44]

After 19 pages of this thread you still do not understand what this issue is? :rolleyes:

It has nothing to do with mouse sensitivity. It has nothing to do with view bob. It has nothing to do with the way the in-game reticle works, OR the way the first-person weapon viewmodel "lags" behind a change in view to simulate weapon movement. I have no idea what you mean by "BF2 handling" - maybe you mean a mouse input that lets one move the view in a responsive way? Sure, who wouldn't want that?

The problem is forced always-on mouse smoothing combined with the forced acceleration. Turning off cursor acceleration in Windows doesn't necessarily affect mouse accel in a game. In most games that default to mouse accel on, you have to force it off in their own config files. Just windows setting isn't enough. If you still don't realize this is a problem, consider this:

When I move my mouse an inch to the right in any other game, I know about how many degrees of rotation my character's view will move. With acceleration forced on by game devs, I have no way of telling - it depends on how fast the game thought I moved the mouse. The problem is compounded when they throw smoothing on top. Input smoothing, or averaging, feels much better on an analog stick than no smoothing, but with a mouse you totally destroy the precision it gives you by smoothing out the input data from it.

Saying that you don't need a responsive mouse input because this is a slower paced tactical game is like saying you don't need any hands to play Monopoly because your turns are long enough to use your toes.

You aren't bothered by this drawback and don't recognize it even as a feature that should have a toggle option. You guys can make as many snide comments as you want, but when a dev markets a product with such an elementary flaw, I have no interest in rewarding it with my money. I really wanted to get into this game, but in its current state, buying it and hoping for a fix down the road seems absurd.

Edit: my current theory about why mouse smooth+accel is more noticeable at lower than a constant 80-100fps or so is because the smoothing code uses a set number of frames and not a given timeframe. If your input is being averaged out over a longer time period (fewer frames at low fps) then it would logically feel more sluggish.

I give up!

It's obvious that this topic is past my understanding as pointed out above.

So I'm off to play the game and hope that BIS provide a patch to fix the problem for those of you who experience what I do not.

Sorry, last contribution here.

There is a simple fix to this.

1. Go into the control panel/mouse/Select "pointer options"/ Uncheck "Enhance Pointer Precision."

2. Nvidia card owners go into Nvidia Control Panel/Manage 3D settings/Select "Program Setting" tab and create one for Arma 2 (find the Arma 2.exe with the "Add" function.) Under "Maximum pre-rendered Frames Select "8."

You may have higher options for the pre-rendered frames as I only have a 8800gts 512mb G92. But this cleared it up for me. As well don't get to aggressive with the "high" settings yet. Some you can get away with, others really bog performance which is obviously needing attention in a future patch that we don't currently have. So for now live with it, the game still looks and runs great.

Intel Dual Core E8400 3.0ghz @ 3.6ghz

DDR2 4GB G.Skill PC-8500 @ 1066mhz

EVGA 8800GTS 512mb G92 @ 770/1010/1700 (Core/Memory/Shader)

Windows 7 RC 64bit

Edited July 1, 2009 by rowdied
lots

[hi.c 10]

I give up!

It's obvious that this topic is past my understanding as pointed out above.

So I'm off to play the game and hope that BIS provide a patch to fix the problem for those of you who experience what I do not.

Well I'm sure all of us who have the issue at least appreciate the acceptance that it might actually be a problem. :)

If you care to wrap your mind around what it feels like to us picky bastards, best example I can give is of a drawing mode included in the Zbrush software modeling package, called LazyMouse. When you turn it on, it essentially makes your cursor "pull around" an elastic-feeling line with some weight to it. It's a tool made specifically to average out your mouse movements and enable slow, careful movements. Not exactly the kind of mouse control you need in an FPS, no matter how tactical and strategic it may be.

It's just frustrating that this never used to be a problem in games... I think it only comes up in modern games now because of all the tricks they now use to fool the player into experiencing a smooth framerate even if it drops pretty low. That and maybe the inputs being designed for a console gamepad and juryrigged to mouse/kb. I guess I can't blame everything on the consoles though. :)

Edit: repost of a link posted earlier that shows an excellent visual -

. If anyone can watch that and say it should still be playable... then consider me speechless. Even after he cuts the graphics settings all the way down you can still see significant delay. Oof. Edited July 1, 2009 by hi.c

[rowdied 44]

Well I'm sure all of us who have the issue at least appreciate the acceptance that it might actually be a problem. :).

You are right, it is a problem. But what is the ACTUAL cause? I too have experienced this problem along time ago with an ACER bought system and EA NHL00. In fact, both my roomies at the time had put together systems compaq and HP and I remember we all had this problem in that and other games. When I started building my own and others, most problems then disappeared.

If you care to wrap your mind around what it feels like to us picky bastards, best example I can give is of a drawing mode included in the Zbrush software modeling package, called LazyMouse. When you turn it on, it essentially makes your cursor "pull around" an elastic-feeling line with some weight to it. It's a tool made specifically to average out your mouse movements and enable slow, careful movements. Not exactly the kind of mouse control you need in an FPS, no matter how tactical and strategic it may be..

You bought and paid for a game (or car:)) and have every right to get your moneys worth. It's not being picky. Being picky is buying the game with ZERO problems and saying that the grass is too green or not green enough to just bitch because you couldn't find a fault with it and really want too.

It's just frustrating that this never used to be a problem in games... I think it only comes up in modern games now because of all the tricks they now use to fool the player into experiencing a smooth framerate even if it drops pretty low. That and maybe the inputs being designed for a console gamepad and juryrigged to mouse/kb. I guess I can't blame everything on the consoles though. :)

You could be right, but I've never experienced this for any game I've had in 8-9yrs since.

Edit: repost of a link posted earlier that shows an excellent visual -

. If anyone can watch that and say it should still be playable... then consider me speechless. Even after he cuts the graphics settings all the way down you can still see significant delay. Oof.

I've seen both of these vids and I can say honestly I've never had this problem in arma1 & 2 or those other games I've mentioned earlier. When I move fast like he does it's instantaneous for me. I'll try and post a vid like he did to show you that.

[Bulldogs 10]

Only other games I've experienced this in is ARMA 1 (which went away shortly after release, for me at least) and Far Cry 2 (which took a while to tweak everything up for, but only took 2 tweaks, one was disabling vsync in the config file, the other was raising the dpi of the mouse and lowering the sensitivity in game)

Although, the FC2 fixes never truely fixed the problem, it still produces some lvl of mouse lag, about the same that I get with Arma 2 when I go below 28 fps, but FC2 is running at 60fps.

[Petko 10]

I updated my OS from Win XP 32bit to Win 7 64 bit, and its exactly the same situation. It had the same mouslag until i forced the nvidia driver to use a pre-render frame of 1.

So its not OS related for sure.

Now i think this problem is just a performance issue for middle end vga cards. (Mine is a 8600GT). The same problem existed for an other friend of mine with a 8600. The strange thing is, that my fps is ok, my card can bear the load.

Its just what the NVida control panel states about the pre-rendering option:

Next week i will get an ATI 4870, and see if that makes a difference. Im sure it will, but i will still report here if it fixes the problem.

As I promised, changed my 8600GT to an ATI 4870 1G ceteris paribus, and the horrible mouse lag dissapeared to nothing. So imho this is a definetly an issue with mid end vga cards.

[DJ_9mm 10]

And by the way, for those saying "oh, it's realism, you're turning with a 90kg weapon!", er, you realise it's exactly the same for when you're aiming with a pistol, right?

also, it's the same when looking through a sniper scope. moving the gun a matter of mm while looking through a scope should not result in the "realistic" lag of moving a heavy weapon.

[rowdied 44]

also, it's the same when looking through a sniper scope. moving the gun a matter of mm while looking through a scope should not result in the "realistic" lag of moving a heavy weapon.

True, but I think it has more todo with the shaders being used that actually cause a slowdown to crawl when doing this at or near trees. This also happened in arma but there was Durg's veg fix that helped eleviate the problem until BIS fixed it somewhat in a later patch.

[Placebo 29]

Edit: repost of a link posted earlier that shows an excellent visual -

. If anyone can watch that and say it should still be playable... then consider me speechless. Even after he cuts the graphics settings all the way down you can still see significant delay. Oof.

I just did my own version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJsFSrg5d0A&fmt=22

fJsFSrg5d0A&fmt=22

Unless I'm missing something blatantly obvious, where's the lag? We're running the same game right? He has terrible lag, I don't, yet the accusation is that the issue is inherent to ArmA2 and is not hardware related, is not driver related, is not system configuration related?

[Armchair Allstar 10]

Unless I'm missing something blatantly obvious, where's the lag? We're running the same game right? He has terrible lag, I don't, yet the accusation is that the issue is inherent to ArmA2 and is not hardware related, is not driver related, is not system configuration related?

I'll have to watch it again but I did seem like there was a very slight amount of lag on your screen. Nothing compared to what I had before I changed the "pre-rendered frames" setting but it is there. But let me ask you this: Because you play the game with one system configuration out of the hundreds of thousands out there and are aren't seeing the problem, it means it can't exist as an ARMA 2 coding problem? That's just poor logic. If the lag is in ARMA 2 but not in other games then it would indicate a problem with ARMA 2. If it doesn't work with certain hardware configurations that work fine with other games there is a problem with the way ARMA 2 communicates with that hardware.

[Placebo 29]

Because you play the game with one system configuration out of the hundreds of thousands out there and are aren't seeing the problem, it means it can't exist as an ARMA 2 coding problem?

Of course not, but the point I'm trying to make is that some of the complaints/criticisms in this thread are that:

1. everyone must have mouse lag they're just too blind/ignorant or whatever to see it and 2. it must be an inherent issue built into ArmA2. And 3. you have to run the game at 100FPS to not get lag.

I merely posted my video to show that 1. I don't have mouse lag and 2. it's possible it's not something inherently built into the game. 3. I was running the game in very high with 25FPS on Utes and something like 15-18 on Chernarus and the mouse still wasn't lagging for me.

Nobody is trying to push the issue under the rug or say it's not real, it doesn't happen, I just saw that YT video posted and was shocked by how blatant the issue was and wanted to check for myself if I really don't get something like that.

[someboy 0]

I just did my own version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJsFSrg5d0A&fmt=22

Unless I'm missing something blatantly obvious, where's the lag? We're running the same game right? He has terrible lag, I don't, yet the accusation is that the issue is inherent to ArmA2 and is not hardware related, is not driver related, is not system configuration related?

Well, in my case I clearly see the lag in your video. Take for example the right turn you perform at 2:50, or the fast turns you do between 3:00 and 3:04. It is the same I experience in my Arma2 Demo. Maybe it's just that for us that complain about it it is annoying, but for others it's not even noticeable...

[Placebo 29]

@2:50 you mean the turn just after I accidentally fire? That's just general FPS stutter not mouse lag, I deliberately had the video settings on high and went to the largest city I could find (I'd also done nothing to lighten the load on my OS such as closing programs and doing a fresh boot etc).

[Bulldogs 10]

Hmm, I'm not seeing lag in the vid (Placebo's one). Are you possibly confusing the floating zone for mouse lag?

If so, just change the setting in game options. 0% no float at all