Radiosound + Mouse Lag Problem

[someboy 0]

I have done a clean install of XP SP3, all latest drivers and tested again with ArmaII (complete version, no more demo). The problem is still there, even though I used all the tweaks and advices posted in this thread. You can again see it in the following video:

I just placed my unit in the editor in Utes. I was above 60fps all the time. I don't know about you, but for me for example the plate shooting in the armory is nearly impossible...

PS: as you can see at the beggining of the video, there is no lag at all in the options menu.

[levitatingcups 10]

ok, im trying to come up with possible culprits for this particular problem, which for me is atleast unbearable, so far i've come up with a technical approach which is simplified to 5 main steps:

(this model might be flawed)

1) mouse is moved, it takes certain amount of time for the mouse to send this info:

cause/fix:

bad mouse

2) hardware processes mouse movement:

most likely cause/fix:

could be that mouse requires special drivers

mouse smooth turned on in operating system

really weird motherboard

3) data is sent to the game which translates the mouse movement for visuals:

cause/fix:

program for the drives could require higher priority

game can have special processing(weight simulation, anyone?)

4) it takes time for the images to be drawn by the gpu(s), it also takes time to fill any possible frame queue(s):

cause/fix:

reducing resolution

forcing max pre-rendered frames as low as possible

turning off v-sync

turning off aa, af, bloom, hdr, any other 'eye-candy'

game does not support the current version of drivers of current video card(to a certain extent)

5) display draws the picture:

cause/fix:

lcds can cause lag, if the signal sent to monitor is not in native resolution, itll usually go through filters to scale it up. lcds also sometimes have special filters to remove jaggedness, which might require multiple frame samples. older lcd displays have noticeable white-to-black of 20ms or more.

however, through logic, one should be able to rule out the possible causes:

1) change mouse and its settings, (windows sensitivity, if mouse has adjustable dpi change that), which i've done. 1 out of 4 mice (labtec crap-laser) introduced a slight increase in the latency, in all 3d applications, but not in windows, weird.

2) current mouse (rapier v2) does not require any special software, but i have a gaming software kit with it,no difference without the kit, and with the kit i've increased usb sampling rate to 1000hz without noticeable effects (in any 3d app).

3) changing priority of arma2 did not seem to have noticeable effects after other optimization, as for the mouse software, its not required to be on for it to have effects, even with it on and higher/lower priority, no effects. game post-processing is hard to test for, as i dont multiple pc's to test this on, so ill keep the option open for now.

4) turning off eye-candy(aa,af,etc) in the game has increased my fps, so i cannot be sure if its just the game related mouse post-processing, however in other 3d applications eye-candies did not seem to introduce noticeable latency, as long as they were not turned on to maximum(which was also good fps killer), lowering resolution of the 3d view of the game itself gave noticeable fps boost, and decreased the mouse lag. maximum pre-rendered frames set to 1 (0 causes crash), had noticeable mouse lag reduction in hl1 and arma2, but not in other 3d apps. the latest nvidia drivers and the latest omega drivers didnt seem to have difference towards the mouse-lag issue.

5) my current b-grade lcd (benq t221wa) has different modes for it, movie, gaming, general, however changing these modes in any 3d application did not seem to have any noticeable mouse-lag related results, and as i do not have other monitors to test with(just for the game), i cant be certain about this one, however other 3d applications do not manifest this mouse-lag so im quite confident that its not the monitor.

my only reasonable conclusion can be that the cause is arma 2's fps-based mouse post-processing feature, which might be totally wrong too.

if anyone else comes up with stuff to include in this list of possible causes and fixes, send pm and ill update it, also i'd like some other test results from people who are able to test these out(along with their conclusions).

ps. game can be any program, but in this case its arma 2

pss. any 3d application stands for following games: rainbow six vegas 2, arma 2, battlefield2 mod project reality, half-life 1 deathmatch and killing floor.

psss. testing demo, not buying full game cause demo it not playable(atleast not with any joy).

quick system specs:

cpu: amd 64x2 +5200

mobo: MSI K8N Neo-V2

memory: 4 gigs of corsair

vid card: gts8800 oc edition (320mb)

edit: options menu mouse does not lag, shame, its the game i've always wanted

Edited July 19, 2009 by levitatingcups
extra info

[dreamweaver 0]

As I said earlier in this thread, i find it extremely weird that the freelook (1st person) is even laggier than the normal view.

Anyone else with this experience?

[Leopardi 0]

As I said earlier in this thread, i find it extremely weird that the freelook (1st person) is even laggier than the normal view.

Anyone else with this experience?

Yes, but BIS don't care about this problem. It will sadly never get fixed, so I can't buy the game.

[axure 10]

so we don't care about BIS - don't buy the game

spread the word - don't buy Arma2

[ghOst.luke 10]

so we don't care about BIS - don't buy the game

spread the word - don't buy Arma2

Now u tell me :(

[Ssamf 10]

I've just uninstalled the game. I had enough! :/ :(

I promise not to buy any BIS game ever!!!!!!!!!!!

[someboy 0]

As I said earlier in this thread, i find it extremely weird that the freelook (1st person) is even laggier than the normal view.

Anyone else with this experience?

Yes. freelook has more lag than normal look for me as well.

It's not a driver or mouse issue, since mouse in options menu is perfectly responsive.

[Pizzle 10]

I too have this problem. I'm 38, have played games since the Commodore Vic 20 days. I've used military weapons & understand how to set up a PC (having being employed as a PC tech for the last 10 years). I think I can tell when something unusual is happening.

There IS a problem. It can only be described as LAG. It does not happen in any other game I have. The only other time I have experienced this was in ARMA1. Very disappointed to see it carry over to the 2nd release.

It's frustrating as my overall performance is fine. I get goods frames & am happy to turn down settings if required.

I use a Logitech G7 mouse. I also have an MX510 which I have tried & receive the same lag problem. I've tried with Logitech drivers / Setpoint & without. I've turned mouse "enhanced precision" off and tried = no difference. I've tried setting "maximum pre-rendered frames" to every value there is with no change. No vsync etc. It just drives me mad.

I re-installed Far Cry 2. Set all settings to maximum & mouse = smooth. Re-installed ARMA 1 & patched to current = same problem.

If this IS a feature implimented by BIS then why can't we have an option to disable it. I can shoot far more accurately with a real rifle than I can in this game. The lag does not simulate anything at all. As far as I'm concerned I treat it as a bug.

A glaring bug that has carried over from their prior releases...

[Bulldogs 10]

It's annoying, I know.

Try installing far cry 2 without patches and you'll notice the exact same thing, that said, with far cry 2 you just had to edit the cfg file and set mousesmoothing=0

[GEARSofWAR 10]

Where can i disable the Vsinc?

[funkee 0]

nVidia or ATI controll panel --> 3D settings --> vertical sync.

and i'm not buying the game too (gonna buy used for half price) if the problem is not solved.

[-TwK-Danny 0]

Note however that for example the ATi control panel cannot do anything about vsync for arma2. Even when you set it to "always off", vsync is still active in arma2.

Basicly BIS need to:

1. disable vsync and tripplebuffering

2. disable any mousesmoothing

3. disable any mouseacceleration

or else the mouse will stay laggy.

[funkee 0]

"Patch 1.04 for ArmA II is currently in progress...

...A couple of prioritised areas we're hoping to address for 1.04 are "mouse lag" (this is something we've not been able to reproduce locally but we believe there are a couple of things we can do to help the situation for those users who do seem to suffer from it), the second area we're prioritising is improving performance, especially in urban areas, of course there will be other things addressed in 1.04 but it's too early to go into details about those just yet."

[aikakana 10]

"Patch 1.04 for ArmA II is currently in progress...

...A couple of prioritised areas we're hoping to address for 1.04 are "mouse lag" (this is something we've not been able to reproduce locally but we believe there are a couple of things we can do to help the situation for those users who do seem to suffer from it), the second area we're prioritising is improving performance, especially in urban areas, of course there will be other things addressed in 1.04 but it's too early to go into details about those just yet."

Wow! That is great news! I hope they could get a machine where they could reproduce this problem.

Someone said a few pages earlier that only a few of us are reporting the mouse drivers etc what we are using when having this issue. This info might be useful for BIS if they read this thread, but there has been so many people complaining already that I wouldn't be surprised if this would happen and not happen in two exactly similar computers with two different users :annoy:

My setup: i7 920, EX58-UD3R, ATI 4890, 6BG ram, Win7 and a Dell mouse with default windows drivers.

When I put all the video options to the max and find a place that has the wors FPS (I could find a place with ~2fps when looking trough a scope, otherwise it was ~40 there, weird), it would seem that this lag is not a fixed count of milliseconds but frames instead. With 2 fps I could count like 15 frames before anything happens when I move the mouse. With 70-100 fps Arma2 is playable, because the lag is just 100-200ms, but anything below 60 makes it horrible ::mad:

Someone, send your lagging machine to BIS hehe!

EDIT: When Arma2 is loading (still at windows screen) change the process affinity to use only 1 core. This eliminates the problem completely!

Edited August 17, 2009 by aikakana

[sle 0]

I have the "classic" mouse lag, as seen in the videos above.

e6600 @3ghz, 9600GT and Razer Diamondback, XP.

ARMA doesn't have lag like this.

Also, I'm finding some of the posts here hilarious - people claiming the problem doesn't exist, or it's due to crap computers, or other bizarre notions. I had this exact same problem with Morrowind once, and it was because I had the music OFF. The fix was to turn the music down to its lowest setting without being completely inaudible; so I think the possibility of this being some wierd bug is very much there.

[funkee 0]

seems like problem is solved guys :) download the latest beta patch (current build 58899): link, go to your ArmA2 config file (username.ArmA2Profile), edit it and add line: "mouseSmoothing=0". now enjoy ArmA2 without mouse lag! you can play even on current 1.03 servers :D

[ModeZt 0]

now enjoy ArmA2 without mouse lag!

i wouldn't say i enjoy the current beta-patch.

if you move your mouse slowly your gun's model is constantly shaking.

the screen is moving perfectly smooth, but the model of the gun is jumping back and forward.

anyways the gameplay has improved alot! aiming is really more easy and accurate.

i was not suffering that much from the mouse lag before, but i doo feel a great difference.

[ExiledLife 10]

seems like problem is solved guys download the latest beta patch (current build 58899)

Is there anyway to get this for the steam version?

I have been having all sorts of issues and just fixed everything except for the mouse lag. The only fix that works for me is lowering the game settings, making the game look less appealing.

[rowdied 44]

Is there anyway to get this for the steam version?

I have been having all sorts of issues and just fixed everything except for the mouse lag. The only fix that works for me is lowering the game settings, making the game look less appealing.

Yes it works for steam also, my bro ran the beta patch and used the beta shortcut that came with the patch.

[ExiledLife 10]

Interesting, I am downloading now and will post after I test it. I will cross my fingers in hope that it actually fixes it.

---------- Post added at 09:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------

Just did a basic test. The patch makes it work for me like I would want it to. I can also see where people might think the game was suppose to have smoothing. When moving just your head the inertia thing makes it seems a bit laggy but at least it starts to move when you want it to, plus looking wont effect your aiming because your gun isn't your face (head mounted machine guns could be the future of warfare???). I do notice a tad smoothness or what not but its much better then it use to be.

Thanks funkee for the link

[funkee 0]

no problem. 5 euro :P

[-Wedge- 10]

I just bought a brand new PC with more than recommended hardware

i get sh*t mouse lag like it as that horrible HALO port for pc .... i haven't had lag like that since halo or maybe battlefield ... not sure how i fixed it in bf ...

[LoXodonte 10]

I don't think this was worth my $24. I have the same lag that makes this game unplayable. It's not so much lag as it is negative acceleration. If you make a quick swipe with the mouse, the mouse acctually moves slower. People are right, this is JUST like a console port. I tried using a "joyfrag" keyboard/mouse adapter for the old xbox, and it was EXACTLY like this.

Please messaage me on youtube when the game is finally playable...

www.youtube.com/loxodonte1

until then, maybe I should make a vid on why this game blows? Nah...

[kklownboy 43]

odd my mouse is just fine. Game runs great. Even the odd stutter from mutigpu is gone with the latest betas. I can adjust my mouse speed in game and or with my mouseware, to the point it can be to fast...