Radiosound + Mouse Lag Problem

[slimSpencer 10]

hi guys,

i tried and tried to solve this...

The only solution for me was to reduce resolution from 1920x1200 to 1440x900.

Altough my Radeon 4870 renders more than 30fps most of the time, even in forests, input was too jerky in that resolution.

Now in 1440x900 it plays quite fine for me.

One important thing i also discovered:

30fps aren't 30 fps: If they are gfx-card limited, input becomes laggy.

If they are CPU-limited, input is fine!

Example:

Campaign-mission (heavy cpu-load), 1440x900, 20-30 fps: No problem with input lag, mouse reacts quite fast.

standing alone in the forest (editor), 1920x1200, 30-35 fps: mouse-lag appears.

well, thats it from my side. Would be interesting if one of you discovered the same or if devs could state sth. about that...

regards

[Bulldogs 10]

I set everything to stock to test it out, one thing I noted was that with post processing on high I could stand in an open are and get 70 frames per second, if i turned rapidly with trees in the distance the frame rate would drop to 25 fps then jump back to 70. This would produce the mouse lag you're talking about. Disabling blur heavily reduced this problem as well as lowering the object detail (which lowers the detail of distant objects)

and before people complain about bad design, remember that you have to render everything in your field of vision. So if you do a 180 deg turn with a long view distance then it's like trying to run 4 copies of the game at once. In that case, accept that you don't have the computer of tomorrow and compromise

[rowdied 44]

We had a play around and it seems to be different for each setup.

These are the solutions I know of;

1) force v-sync off through nvidia/ati control panel

2) under ati/nvidia control panel (3d settings) set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1 or 0 (test to see which works best)

3) disable post processing in game (if this works, re-enable it but download keygety's no blur mod and try that

4) lower the view distance and object detail (run fraps, stand still and check your frame rate, then turn around in a circle and see if your framerate drops rapidly. If it does then lower view distance, object detail, other settings may help too)

5) DPI issue, if you can try raise the DPI on your mouse and lower the sensitivity in game, if that doesn't work try the opposite.

But honestly, it took all 5 options to fix my issue totally.

To quote Bulldogs on another thread with the 5 main things to help eliminate or reduce the mouse lag. Thanks, I was too lazy to put these possible fixes together.

[Big J Money 10]

I'm having serious problems with my Razer Lachesis at home too. Even after lowering settings all the way down to the lowest they will go and maxing out at 60FPS and insanely smooth gameplay (max because of monitor refresh) it's still horrible. I don't need to turn around quickly to get it either. In fact, I can turn the aim deadzone to maximum and still notice the horrible mouse smoothing without the camera budging at all. It's simply that there is some kind of weird mouse smoothing going on. Note that this is WITHOUT windows or Razer mouse smoothing/acceleration/precision enabled. On my desktop I have true 1:1 respones, no acceleration.

Now, I've thought about this and simply put I think this is a software thing and probably is by design. Those of you who say you don't have this problem, I think you probably just don't notice that it bothers you. My thought is that the developers wanted to simulate the weight of carrying a weapon in your arms. If this is the case, then I am okay and I will buy the game with the knowledge that all the other gamers playing this will have this same handicap.

What do you guys think about this theory?

My rig is an 8800GTX on a Dual Core processor with 2GB of system RAM. I've never experience this in a game before, even Crysis.

Cheers guys. Hopefully I'll be able to purchase this game and see you all on the battlefield. Everything else is so fantastic.

PS -- Note that I am talking about the mouse feeling "floaty" and not so much talking about mouse lag per se. In other words, when I stop moving my mouse the reticule still is decelerating a tiny bit -- just enough to throw me off. When the FPS is low, it gets EXTREMELY bad.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Big J Money

[Bulldogs 10]

You're actually pretty spot on there. I believe it was put in to simulate the heavy weapon, but there is a sort of mouse smoothing in the game. The downside being that the smoothing gets worse with lower fps.

Some of the fixes I mentioned there are to lower the mouse smoothing problem, while the others are a way to try sly your way around the mouse smoothing issue.

I'm kinda hoping that BIS release a way to turn off mouse smoothing altogether, but I doubt it since it's been there since Arma 1, although Arma 1's mouse smoothing was lowered with later patches (or maybe it just got better as my machine got better)

[Leopardi 0]

SERIOUSLY, why isn't BIS listening to us? When I read other game forums the #1 reason people are saying they won't buy this game is because of the latency for input!

[Bulldogs 10]

BIS is actually listening, I think they just see it as a feature they wish to keep (to make it more realistic)

Gotta remember that this game is designed around tactics and simulation so they try to avoid anything that would turn it into Battlefield 2, the downside being that differences in hardware/software/etc can change that realistic heavy weapon into an unrealistic drag of the mouse.

[data-recovery 10]

Now, I've thought about this and simply put I think this is a software thing and probably is by design. Those of you who say you don't have this problem, I think you probably just don't notice that it bothers you. My thought is that the developers wanted to simulate the weight of carrying a weapon in your arms. If this is the case, then I am okay and I will buy the game with the knowledge that all the other gamers playing this will have this same handicap.

Why do people keep saying this? It's not the design, its a nasty bug which I am sure will get addressed; hopefully sooner then later because I'm not buying the game until it does.

To all those people who believe that this mouse lag is to simulate the weight of the weapon I ask you this: why does it lag when you don't have a weapon?? Why does it lag in vehicles.

Example 1: boot camp, you start out without a weapon and there is mouse lag...

Example 2: Equip a pistol or better yet no weapon at all and there is still lag...

I rest my case.

[Big J Money 10]

Data, you're absolutely correct it happens regardless of what weapon you have. It's definitely a global mouse proccessing issue that's a part of the engine -- it doesn't discriminate between what rifle you have! Or does it a little? I think it is more noticeable when I'm using a machine gun than a rifle, or when using a vehicle mounted weapon. (but it's definitely still there even with no weapon and a pistol)

However, I still believe it's possible this was intentionally built into the engine to simulate a lack of computer perfect response. (If I were to play UT3 or UT2004 I would see perfect mouse response.) For someone to make a strong argument that this isn't the case, I'd want to see evidence from someone with plenty of classic FPS experience to make the claim that they have absolutely none of this floaty mouse problem in their copy of the game.

Ultimately this wouldn't bother me as long as it is by design and everyone has the same handicap. HOWEVER, it is obvious that even if this is by design there is a SERIOUS unintended side effect. That is when your FPS drops your mouse response also drops accordingly, and THAT aspect of it is a seroius, serious game breaking issue. It means that unlike 90% of other PC games, you simply can't play this one unless you tweak your performance perfectly. I can handle playing most intensive FPSes at 25 FPS. They are stuttery but they ar playable. This one isn't.

So the important message to BIS is: Regardless of whether this is by design or not, look how much trouble this is causing low and mid-range machines. It also affects those with high-end machines who still have perf issues, for whatever reason. If it is possible to fix this issue, a lot of us would appreciate, thank you.

[Ruckus 0]

Do you want to get the mouslag addressed or do you want to whinge about radio communications? Make your mind up because if it's the former I'll close the thread as it's not a troubleshooting issue it belongs here.

I'm going to un-install my logitech software and give this a test to see if it has any effect.

There is however 1 problem with this. I happen to have a Logitech MXâ„¢ Revolution and that has 8 buttons and 2 wheels. I don't think I will be able

to program the other button fuctions without the logitech software.

[Bulldogs 10]

I use a Sidewinder. I don't know if it'll be the same but I removed the sidewinder software 'cause it was causing issues and now it reads my buttons under Arma 2 as *mouse 1* *mouse 2* *mouse 8* etc

One thing I'd like to note. Someone should post this (about removing mouse smooth) in the suggestions area, if it hasn't already.

[ExiledLife 10]

I noticed that reducing the 3D Resolution seems to solve the mouse lag issue. However, on the first mission when I look down the hill, even the lowest of game settings lag me. Also can someone please post how to set pre-rendered frames to 1 on an ATI card if it is possible.

[rowdied 44]

I noticed that reducing the 3D Resolution seems to solve the mouse lag issue. However, on the first mission when I look down the hill, even the lowest of game settings lag me. Also can someone please post how to set pre-rendered frames to 1 on an ATI card if it is possible.

Download ati tray tools at guru3d. It's flip queue for ati cards.

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

Why do people keep saying this? It's not the design, its a nasty bug which I am sure will get addressed; hopefully sooner then later because I'm not buying the game until it does.

To all those people who believe that this mouse lag is to simulate the weight of the weapon I ask you this: why does it lag when you don't have a weapon?? Why does it lag in vehicles.

Example 1: boot camp, you start out without a weapon and there is mouse lag...

Example 2: Equip a pistol or better yet no weapon at all and there is still lag...

I rest my case.

For the last time, I do not experience this nor do any of my friends.

Those of you who say you don't have this problem, I think you probably just don't notice that it bothers you.

I don't have it, period! Why can't some of you believe that others DO NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM? I believe you when you say you have it.

My mouse movements are exactly the same, zero lag, in all these games I play, GRAW1&2,R6V1&2,L4D,Killing Floor,Arma,CODWAW.

Now I've used both nvidia and ati and have no problems. I've gone from amd to intel, different mice, monitors keyboards etc... and the only constant is winxp and NO mouse lag.

If it is a bug or feature in the game, why does it happen for some and not others?

[ExiledLife 10]

Thanks. I've been needing something like that for ever. Also don't forget to mention that you also get shot at in boot camp. :P

[Big J Money 10]

For the last time, I do not experience this nor do any of my friends.

I don't have it, period! Why can't some of you believe that others DO NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM?

Because of the nature of the behavior. There seem to be two camps of people: 1) People who notice it even when their performance is flawless, and 2) People who don't notice it when their performance is flawless. I think so far everyone who has poor performance says they suffer from some form of mouse lag. If I'm wrong, fine -- then there are three camps of people. Finally, I wouldn't call the problem "mouse lag" anyway. It's more of a "floaty mouse" that has some kind of weight to it. Imagine holding a dumbell in your hand and then swinging your arm around. Whenever you stop your hand wouldn't be able to immediately stop by fractions of a second.

Because there are many of us who are noticing the issue regardless of mouse used, drivers used, video card features enabled, and with performance being completely flawless the evidence very strongly supports the fact that the issue is built into the game.

The fact that it is exacerbated by poor performance/low FPS is a side-effect, but it's not the core issue. Of course some people have said that once they improved their performance everything was better. I am suspicious that 'better' is relative and that mouse software floatiness is still present in a minor (read: to them, harmless) form. Another way to say this is that the "mouse floatiness" and "mouse lag" are linked because the mouse lag would not occur with under poor FPS conditions if there weren't any mouse floatiness programmed into the game in the first place (although there would of course still be camera hitchiness with poor performance).

A good analogy would be CRTs versus LCD monitors. Most people can't tell a difference, but when I stopped using CRTs to play FPSes my marksman skills in fast-paced FPSes tanked -- I just couldn't be as effective as I could before. My eyes couldn't see the difference but my brain could somehow and it affects me. People argue that it's impossible to detect the refresh changes between the two, but it doesn't matter. I know that I have a harder time aiming at fast moving enemies on an LCD than I do on a CRT. This is just as I know that it is harder for me to keep steady aim in this game than it was in these FPS that I've played a lot over the years: BF1942, TF Classic, UT2004, Quake1, Quake3, etc, etc. Interestingly enough rowdied, notice that the games you play and the ones I've played are different. It would be interesting if they turned out to use different forms of mouse control. I certainly never played Arma, but there are people in this thread claiming they had this same problem in Arma.

Just my thoughts on this.

[Edit: I didn't actually read the OP since I started this one a couple pages at the end, so I didn't notice this: "I know that BIS wanted to simulate the weight of the weapons. I know that there's a floating mode. Nevertheless I cannot imagine that this mouselag is a part of a good simulation." If the OP is correct then I would say to him that the mouse lag is an inevitable consequence of having variable moments of sub-par performance in a game that uses any kind of mouse or camera acceleration calculations. I don't think they could fix this without removing it entirely, and for all we know that could require a major engine overhaul which would mean it's not gonna happen and they aren't going to speak up about it. Here's to hoping they change their minds for Arma3. I'm still on the fence about buying this game myself, but if they would AT LEAST speak in and explain that, yes, this is part of the game I would know that if I lower my settings that I'm experiencing the same handicap that every other play is.]

Edited June 29, 2009 by Big J Money

[ExiledLife 10]

The mouse lag I experienced was where the mouse wouldn't move right exactly when I moved the mouse. The stopping however I never gave a thought to. I also think I noticed some lag between clicking and firing. The frame rate of the game was fine. Also to show even more mouse, when I maxed the settings during the main menu the mouse should be all spazzy but the frame rate would be playable.

My friend won't even play the game until more patches come out because of how poorly optimized this game is. It reminds me of Saints Row 2.

Download ati tray tools at guru3d. It's flip queue for ati cards.

It doesn't like me, probably because I am using windows 7.

[ICEOverDose 10]

You guys are kidding with the "Feature" thing right?

In a game where you can instantly zoom in 3x with no optics(wish I could do that in real life) at any time, or jump out of a plane going 300mph toward the earth 20 feet before impact and parachute to safety, or fly into one tree and be fine one second and get shot by a handgun the next and get blown up like there was C4 strapped to the entire plane... You really think that they were going this far with the "inertia" thing?

Beyond that. I know that their "inertia" system works perfectly fine. If you get into a tank and try to turn the turret you will notice that it slows down your mouse sensitivity rather than delaying it like we are experiencing here. So our problem only compounds the aiming issues of big weapons.

This mouse acceleration problem has been in MANY games: Bioshock, Almost every game based off a movie for the past 3 years(Uhhhg Wanted: WEapons of fate was horrible), and Most games that were ported to PC from a console.

It seems like only some game companies take it seriously right off the at(COD4 for example). From what I've read about this kind of problem over the past what... 5 years? Is that it mainly has to do with performance mice such as laser mice or ones with High polling rates that require special drivers. Not to say some people don't have it with a random 10$ Microsoft mouse.

I think BI is probably working on this right now. I've gotten my lag to a tolerable level just based on the fixes in this post. Hopefully they will release a total fix in a patch sooner or later. It doesn't really matter though. The game is great no matter if there is a little delay in your mouse or not. Its not fast paced enough to require COD4, CS:S type accuracy.

~ICE

[York Shasta 10]

The mouse acceleration is a big bother for me as well. People experiencing it and also looking in this thread have probably already done this, but just in case:

1. In the Control Panel>Mouse>Pointer options menu make sure to un-check "Enhance Pointer Precision"

2. If you have a Logitech mouse and are using the Setpoint software, be sure that you have "Mouse Acceleration" set to "None" there also. I believe that it's set to "Low" by default.

In regard to the problem itself, it is not a framerate issue. It is present at both high and low framerates, but is exacerbated by lower ones. I am not talking about mouse LAG here, but the mouse acceleration.

Just my two cents.

[Pawz2142 10]

The mouse acceleration is a big bother for me as well. People experiencing it and also looking in this thread have probably already done this, but just in case:

1. In the Control Panel>Mouse>Pointer options menu make sure to un-check "Enhance Pointer Precision"

2. If you have a Logitech mouse and are using the Setpoint software, be sure that you have "Mouse Acceleration" set to "None" there also. I believe that it's set to "Low" by default.

In regard to the problem itself, it is not a framerate issue. It is present at both high and low framerates, but is exacerbated by lower ones. I am not talking about mouse LAG here, but the mouse acceleration.

Just my two cents.

good try, problem still is there. Still waiting for some sorta patch for this problem otherwise the game is unplayable in my opinion. If it stays too long ill write an angry letter to both STEAM and Bohemia :j: cause that will get me far... I'd ask for my money back if i could.

Oh and for a temp fix turn post processing effects off, it's something in there that's slowing it down. Hopefully they'll add an option to turn off motion blur

Edited June 30, 2009 by Pawz2142

[NinjaWesley 10]

If you don't have the problem, can you post your system specs, graphic settings and FPS?

I DO have this problem:mad: and I have probably the best system I've seen on these boards so I can guarantee my mouse and framerate is not the issue. It is some sort of bad code or perhaps feature within the game I've tried all the fixes and nothing stops the mouse accel problem.

my system specs:

Asus P6T Motherboard

Corsair XMS 6GB RAM

TWO ATI 4870 1GB both OC

i7 Core 920 OC

Hitachi 24 GB SSD

Logitech G9 Mouse

[York Shasta 10]

good try, problem still is there. Still waiting for some sorta patch for this problem otherwise the game is unplayable in my opinion. If it stays too long ill write an angry letter to both STEAM and Bohemia :j: cause that will get me far... I'd ask for my money back if i could.

Oh and for a temp fix turn post processing effects off, it's something in there that's slowing it down. Hopefully they'll add an option to turn off motion blur

I never said it'd fix it, but doing those steps may help reduce it.

[Murklor 10]

I dont know if this has been mentioned before, but I'm curious if those with mouselag has it in both 1st and 3rd person?

Since motion blur disables in 3rd person that make the mouse feel instantly smoother for me. 1st person is almost unplayable as its both sluggish and blurry.

I think the issue is a little more complex than this however... Otherwise people wouldnt have gone so far as to suggest the all the dozens of other "fixes", heh.

[Bulldogs 10]

Can't do much for the demo in that case, but Kegety's no blur works with 1.02... I still can't live without that mod, until BIS releases an official fix (apparently 1.03 will have it)

[MrMud 10]

I have to chime in and say that I think the mouse acceleration problem is a very serious issue.

When I first played the demo I felt it pretty bad but after lowering the graphics settings it seemed that most of it had gone away.

Unfortunately when I am trying to play the retail game I have terrible "mouse lag" despite turning the settings down a bit like I had done in the demo.

For me this is a deal breaker and unfortunately it means that I cant really play the game until it is either fixed completely or the performance is improved sufficiently so that the problem becomes less noticeable.

Also, that this would be a feature to simulate weapon weight is preposterous. Moving a medium sized weapon is a fast process, what takes time is stabilizing the aim after movement. This would be better simulated by increasing the size of the firing cone after movement.

[ExiledLife 10]

I wish they just fixed the game so it doesn't super lag out. I can sorta get use to the mouse lag but the horrible lag later makes it unplayable.