IR Aiming,

[galzohar 31]

Yes, but how much does your FW190 cost? UT99 for all means and purposes is free. Not that I claim it can be done, but I think it's very reasonable to be surprised if it can't be done.

[max power 21]

Yes, but how much does your FW190 cost? UT99 for all means and purposes is free. Not that I claim it can be done, but I think it's very reasonable to be surprised if it can't be done.

You didn't figure it out. :p

Here's another hint: The FW190 has terrible ground handling. My volkswagen could trash it in a GT race. Why is that, given that they are quite similar in aspiration and general principles are the same? ie. they both burn fossil fuels to power a reciprocating, oil lubricated V motor, use wheels to solve the ground friction problem, radiators with fans to cool the moving parts etc.

[Worldeater 2]

Interesting...

In the pre-wallhack days the dark side used so-called spike models to know where the enemy is.

Isn't using these lasers (in RL) like turning yourself into a spike model?

Would you really use those when you're up against a technically advanced enemy (and I'm not talking about some half-starved 3rd world army here but a real enemy)?

[frederf 0]

There's a whole branch of military thinking called "EMCON" or emission control. There are plenty of techniques already in the field manuals when using IR equipment against an IR capable enemy.

[galzohar 31]

First, under most conditions only the dot where the laser impacts is visible, not the entire beam. Second, you don't keep it on constantly, you only activate it when you have a target to shoot, with a button placed on the weapon right next to your left hand's finger or thumb. Third, when you're wearing a NV of a kind that doesn't let you use your weapon sights, you don't have much choice but to use that laser or spray and pray.

[max power 21]

The answer is that they were both designed with different tasks in mind and therefore have different features. The volkswagen designers didn't design the aircraft to fly therefore it doesn't have wings. BI didn't design ArmA to have Spectre IR lasers, therefore it may not be possible to jimmy something in. The designers of infiltration mod were evidently able to capitalize on some design feature in the UT to make such a laser possible- which is awesome.

Naming any specific feature that an engine isn't capable of isn't a good indicator of its flexibility. Because UT can have invisble lasers doesn't mean it IS really flexible and because Real Virtuality can't doesn't mean it's not. There is lots of stuff either engine can do that the other isn't capable of.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@Frederf: Good point. If we are ever given such new toys, there should also be means of countering them. We currently have the ability to use laser designator to precision bomb a T90. But the T90 (probably) lacks the detection systems from real world. If we had IR simulation, we would also have to have IR camoflaging (we had uniforms designed be lessen the IR signature, but wouldn't make them invisible off course) and crossover times. A painted enemy would have a great chance to detect a laser. But the reactions against it would suck, not only because of AI abilities, but also due to lack of environmental details (i.e. indoors, where to hide?).

[frederf 0]

Ah, that's the rub isn't it? Games are all too eager to implement the advantages of new toys well in advance of their downsides. The T90 would probably detect the presence of the SOFLAM laser as well as its rough direction. Would be a sad first day on the job to have your T90 target pop smoke and scuttle off 5 minutes before your air support had arrived.

ArmA1 or 2 hasn't really tackled IR in a meaningful way and it is hard. I hope that when they do it, they do it well.

As for AI abilities, GroupLinkII was a great way to smarten up the default AI. It'd be nice if that was a built in feature of ArmA2.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

If you're painting the target 5 minutes before the support is supposed to use it, you're not doing it correctly I would say :D

But yes, that's pretty much 'the rub'. Basically in the real world 'every system has a countersystem'. Someone in the old ACE threads said it out loud: "We only want the good things, non of the bad things". I mean, huh?...

I thought Arma2 had some sort of 'out of group' communication abilities, unlike Arma1. Not sure about the effect and range of these effects though. Will do in a few days though :)

[kremator 1064]

Ah, that's the rub isn't it? Games are all too eager to implement the advantages of new toys well in advance of their downsides. The T90 would probably detect the presence of the SOFLAM laser as well as its rough direction. Would be a sad first day on the job to have your T90 target pop smoke and scuttle off 5 minutes before your air support had arrived.

ArmA1 or 2 hasn't really tackled IR in a meaningful way and it is hard. I hope that when they do it, they do it well.

As for AI abilities, GroupLinkII was a great way to smarten up the default AI. It'd be nice if that was a built in feature of ArmA2.

/me prays for GL III for Arma2 :)

[Jester617 0]

As a side note, laser designators only leave a "dot" normally. You only see a "line" if there's a bunch of dust/smoke/fog/etc.

U can see the line without the dust smk or fog i was playing with a a/n peq15 few days ago on tower guard while looking though some pvs7d (nvgs)

there are alot of adjustment u can make to the lasers on a peq15

[dunedain 48]

BI didn't design ArmA to have Spectre IR lasers, therefore it may not be possible to jimmy something in.

I remember a video of VBS2 with IR laser working, so maybe it wouldn't be that hard to add such feature to Arma2.

Edited June 13, 2009 by dunedain

[galzohar 31]

U can see the line without the dust smk or fog i was playing with a a/n peq15 few days ago on tower guard while looking though some pvs7d (nvgs)

there are alot of adjustment u can make to the lasers on a peq15

When it's all clear you definitely DON'T see a "line". Speaking from experience here. If you just have a little bit of dust in the air, though, you'll see a "line".

[DaSquade 0]

Quote from SMGLee:

The knob functions are

1. Visible Red laser

2. off

3 Program

4. IR-Aiming laser in low power

5 IR dual-Aiming and illum in low power

6. IR-Aiming in high power

7. IR-Ilum in high power

8. IR dual-Aiming and illum in high power

I haven't looked into it, but afaik these are more functions then on an old an/peq4a. I suppose it is maybe function 5 and 8 (IR laser + illuminating) might give a lasers line in all condition.

Imho, realisme or not, the main purpose of a laser in game would require a visible laser line during day and/or night. As i suppose it would be used as CQB quick aiming...and target lasing for your squad mates on longer distances.

If there is only a 'dot' visible, it is as good as useless imho. Good luck searching for the single pixel!

[galzohar 31]

That's the whole point, laser sights are very range limited because of that - but they work great within the ranges they were designed for. The only reason you would ever see a "line" is when the laser has "particles" in the air that deflect it partially, and what you see is actually the laser illuminating those "particles". If the air is clear, the laser beam is uninterrupted, and you see none of it until it actually hits something and gets deflected. That "line" easily gives away your position, you should really avoid using a laser in such conditions if you have a choice...

[My Fing ID 0]

If someone does get around to making the PEQs work please link them to the hold breath button so we don't have to run around with them on and make them bright. My old PEQ2 could practical light up a room.

[galzohar 31]

How hard is it to simply add a new keybinding for it? That's probably the most realistic way to do it...

[max power 21]

I remember a video of VBS2 with IR laser working, so maybe it wouldn't be that hard to add such feature to Arma2.

That's making a lot of assumptions about in the interoperability of that module. There I see a particle line coming out of the weapon and really there is no indication as to whether or not it is visible without NVG.

That's the whole point, laser sights are very range limited because of that - but they work great within the ranges they were designed for. The only reason you would ever see a "line" is when the laser has "particles" in the air that deflect it partially, and what you see is actually the laser illuminating those "particles". If the air is clear, the laser beam is uninterrupted, and you see none of it until it actually hits something and gets deflected. That "line" easily gives away your position, you should really avoid using a laser in such conditions if you have a choice...

I think that at least some laser aiming devices don't project a dot but a cross or a T to make it easier to see at distance. One I was reading about a while ago I think said that the cross was as tall as a man at some distance away- where ever the sight was supposed to be zeroed, I guess.

[frederf 0]

I know the PEQ-2 is a columnated IR light (laser, I think) which should produce a spot about the size of a dinner plate at 100-200m.

[galzohar 31]

I've never seen lasers that make a cross shape, and while I don't doubt their existence, I doubt they see a lot of use.

http://vimeo.com/4532787

3:25 the guy aims with a laser, you don't see it until he fires and there's some smoke/dust/whatever that the laser can deflect off of, and you see it less and less as it settles down. Easier to see if you can somehow run it in slow motion, as they scene cuts away right as the laser "line" becomes almost invisible.

[frederf 0]

Check that same video at 1:17-1:24 for a rifle-mounted IR pointer and 3:43 for the LAV/Stryker's similar system.

Notice the lines. IR particulate absorption and scattering has different properties than visible-wavelength particulate absorption and scattering, laser or not.

[staniland 0]

is there any news, anyone working on this?

im pretty keen on having this for our clan

[GoodKnight 10]

I wish they could do what they did in COD4.

(IR wise..)

[galzohar 31]

I wish they could do what they did in COD4.

(IR wise..)

Except this time actually make it function... In COD 4 you'd still keep your crosshairs and still keep your confire so the laser didn't help at all.

[GoodKnight 10]

Except this time actually make it function... In COD 4 you'd still keep your crosshairs and still keep your confire so the laser didn't help at all.

Yeah but other then that it's pretty cool :)