IR Aiming,

[GoodKnight 10]

Hi all.

I remember watching a mini series called Generation kill.

It's a lot like the Razor missions in the game.

Anyways there was this one part where they spot something at night.

While they were on the move. So all of them had NV on. And when

they were aiming at the "target" you could see a IR aim just like a laser.

Is it possible to add that in game?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Throw in the bad NVGs as well, using up batteries. :)

[bravo 6 0]

I also would like to see this laser while using NV at night.

This is the "Generation Kill" video showing the respective lasers with NVG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3HWJGOJuYw (at 1:00)

Edited June 7, 2009 by bravo 6
added time

[GoodKnight 10]

I also would like to see this laser while using NV at night.

This is the "Generation Kill" video showing the respective lasers with NVG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3HWJGOJuYw (at 1:00)

Exactly what I was talking about!

It's freaking cool aint it?

Wish the Radio chatter was like that two..

Thinks like "Were going Oscar Mike!"

OM = On the move :D.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I've heard Oscar Mike in game videos :)

[Mindwalker 0]

Would love to see this implemented in-game. Think someone suggested this for ArmA too.

I've heard Oscar Mike in game videos :)

I won't be happy until someone calls me a Whiskey Tango F**k in a mission.

[frederf 0]

Ha, first time seeing Generation Kill. It's like a nerdy military Wiki made into a show. There's so much technical exposition (which is plenty accurate) but hardly what people would actually say aloud.

Heavens, a working PEQ-2 or similar AI aiming / illuminating device would be an absolute Godsend. I could just imagine how C2 would benefit from being able to point out locations using a commander's laser instead of just blabing about it over the radio.

[galzohar 31]

I also would like to see this laser while using NV at night.

This is the "Generation Kill" video showing the respective lasers with NVG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3HWJGOJuYw (at 1:00)

Notice that they are marking the "hostile" with their IR lazers but the guy actually looking at the markings is using an NV scope attachment, which is better quality than normal NVGs and allows him to see it's just some trash bag. I wish all those things would be in the game, as well as some thremal NV - much heavier (can't use as attachment or to walk around with) and take time to activate, but not reliant on starlight and you can see much better and further with them, as well as through certain things that don't block the thermal IR radiation.

This video also shows you how hard it is to turn a convoy around at night while under fire...

As a side note, laser designators only leave a "dot" normally. You only see a "line" if there's a bunch of dust/smoke/fog/etc.

[GoodKnight 10]

As a side note, laser designators only leave a "dot" normally. You only see a "line" if there's a bunch of dust/smoke/fog/etc.

Which there was in the vids case because of the moving convoy.

And the dusty area or maybe even wind moving the sand.

[galzohar 31]

Yeah I know, it's just that people often seem to expect lasers to *always* leave that kind of line, when in fact it is usually not the case.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I won't be happy until someone calls me a Whiskey Tango F**k in a mission.

Shoot me once in a coop, and you'll hear it, I guarantee it :D

Isn't it so that bad weather is usually the case in war? I mean, 'the coldest winter in modern times/worst duststorm ever', and stuff like that. It's like the guy upstairs doesn't want us to do it. Haven't happened lately though, so he's probably busy waiting for 505 release like everybody else, hehe...

@Frederf: Personally, I found it to be very authentic. When in a professional environment, you learn to 'talk like a professional', it becomes second nature. I'm no marine, so I'll never know for sure, but it was all documented by a reporter with no military bias. It wasn't ment to be 'civilianized' like most shows.

Btw, while I was in, we even started to call items by the name they was listed under (inventory checklist, military style cataloging), even for basic things like common clothing. If I went into a store asking for such a thing, the salesman/girl would have had a memorable day :)

Also noteworthy from that GK clip. Notice how the driver "can't see shit" for several reasons. Compare that with what we get in Arma/Arma2 -- perfect night vision. Doesn't even need batteries, and are compatible with any daysight. Aren't we just about the luckiest 'soldiers' in the world? :p

Btw, that site has a lot of interresting reads for those with the time.

[frederf 0]

@Frederf: Personally, I found it to be very authentic. When in a professional environment, you learn to 'talk like a professional', it becomes second nature. I'm no marine, so I'll never know for sure, but it was all documented by a reporter with no military bias. It wasn't ment to be 'civilianized' like most shows.

I understand that professional soldiers have a professional language but in Generation Kill there seemed to be so much explanation going on. It's like if I turned to a fellow pilot and said "My right aileron was jammed, which is the control surface that contributes to bank authority." It would be plenty accurate and use the technical vernacular but why would I explain things so simply to another pilot that knows what an aileron is.

"I know you've got no depth perception with those NVGs" is a great example of a line in that clip that is wrong. All of the soldiers would be well versed in the limitations and use of NVGs. If the more experienced soldier was going to make a comment about NVGs to the other soldier he would say something like "hey, remember your depth perception is poor with those." How it's stated it's like it's the very first time that solider would be told that which is most certainly not the case.

I would like to see a lot of the negative aspects and varying quality of NVG/IR devices modeled.

[GoodKnight 10]

"I know you've got no depth perception with those NVGs" is a great example of a line in that clip that is wrong. All of the soldiers would be well versed in the limitations and use of NVGs. If the more experienced soldier was going to make a comment about NVGs to the other soldier he would say something like "hey, remember your depth perception is poor with those." How it's stated it's like it's the very first time that solider would be told that which is most certainly not the case.

I disagree.

Because his saying that he should use common sense.

So by adding "I know you depth.." His just kind like mocking him.."

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I agree, sounded like mocking him and that he was annoyed with him. The only times I noticed explaining was when the reporter actually asked about something technical.

The only thing that annoyed me was how they portrayed their officers. If they did poor desciscion making when they were there, I don't think they looked so stupid while doing so.

[bushlurker 45]

Back in the late OFP/pre Arma days someone had a go at the IR aiming thing... It wasn't really like the scene in GK - just a sort of red line artifact/object-type thing projecting outwards...

It wasn't hugely successful and I think it just sort of got abandoned... but I don't think its completely beyond the engine limitations to do it better... Just needs one of the Insanely Clever Community Dudes to decide he's gonna make it happen - and it will...

Just checked some of my old OFP backup stuff there looking for that addon - can't find it and can't even remember who made it originally......

It wouldn't have been Wipman by any chance????... I know he's our resident Custom Face Dude nowadays but I seem to remember he did other stuff for OFP ???

Anyhow... never rule ANYTHING out where the OFP/Arma/2 Community is concerned....... :D

B

Edited June 8, 2009 by Bushlurker

[bravo 6 0]

but I don't think its completely beyond the engine limitations to do it better... Just needs one of the Insanely Clever Community Dudes to decide he's gonna make it happen - and it will...

I completely agree on that.

If BIS is not up to the task, someone make it happen, please. :)

[max power 21]

Unless there is something spectacularly different about the ArmA 2 engine, I think that this sort of thing would have already been done (as a community addon) in ArmA 1 if it was possible.

[galzohar 31]

Is the engine that limiting? Infiltration for UT99 had fully functional laser sights. Not IR, but the laser is the hard part anyway. And that's a >10 year old engine.

[frederf 0]

Heh, galzohar, don't become an ArmA2 modder unless you want to really see engine limitations.

[bravo 6 0]

Unless there is something spectacularly different about the ArmA 2 engine, I think that this sort of thing would have already been done (as a community addon) in ArmA 1 if it was possible.

Well the lighting is different and much better in my opinion, thats why i believe this could be done "soon" :)

videos:

(lower your sound volume)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbWEDzd8aQs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw-G2aroqlc (comparison ArmA1 with ArmA2) ;)

Edited June 8, 2009 by bravo 6
added videos

[beita 10]

The laser designator makes a dot doesn't it? ACE added turning on/off the laser to an action (ACE Cobra). Couldn't a similar thing be attempted for a rifle? Like you say, it isn't always a line, usually just a dot. The line might be too complex to do, but a dot, perhaps not?

[GoodKnight 10]

The laser designator makes a dot doesn't it? ACE added turning on/off the laser to an action (ACE Cobra). Couldn't a similar thing be attempted for a rifle? Like you say, it isn't always a line, usually just a dot. The line might be too complex to do, but a dot, perhaps not?

Remember the dot can only be seem by NV.

Not seen by the naked eye.

Is that possible?

[DaveP 66]

Remember the dot can only be seem by NV.

Not seen by the naked eye.

Is that possible?

I don't see why not, if you look at how the reflective patches on the back of USMC helmets glow under the NV compared to how they look normally it's entirely possible.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Ugh about the lights, sorry... Although lightyears ahead of Arma1, it still fails the realism factor:

* Visible lightcone intensity should be varied with current fog conditions.

* Visible lightcone size (lenght into distance) should be varied with current fog conditions.

* There is still no tactical light mode (light slits). Toggling between three different states would do it. For choppers, it would determine the searchlight without affecting positional lights.

With no fog or humidity, there should be no lightcone visible at all.

At full fog, the lightcone should be a problem as in real life.

As for IR aiming, just an idea:

Laser simulation used, but without providing a target to lock onto.

3D distance from player/gun to laser target determines how long the streak was.

Streak was visible or invisible determined by NVG being used or not.

Laser 'beam' intensity/visibility/opaqueness determined by fog/rain.

Fades away from say 100 to 200m if it doesn't hit a target within that distance.

Laser on/off would have to be broadcasted to other clients to be useful.

Only available for guns that have a laser modelled, naturally.

Not sure how to deal with smoke effects though, animated visibility map?

Edited June 9, 2009 by CarlGustaffa

[max power 21]

Well the lighting is different and much better in my opinion, thats why i believe this could be done "soon" :)

Maybe you could do it with lighting... but would you be able to target the light reflection? Maybe they would have to do a light and an object. Maybe you could do it with a laser object that's so faint that it can only barely be seen by the naked eye and would be a little more visible via NVG... I would like to think so but I don't know.

Is the engine that limiting? Infiltration for UT99 had fully functional laser sights. Not IR, but the laser is the hard part anyway. And that's a >10 year old engine.

The FW190 is 60 years old and has a piston engine and can fly at 600 km/h. How come my new volkswagen can't fly at 600 km/h? It can only travel on the ground. The FW190 had a V piston engine and a centrifugal supercharger. My car also has a V engine and a centrifugal supercharger. When you figure this out, you will have your answer.