View Distance

[sidhellfire 0]

Maybe an introduction of a low polygon count map model for players airborne, or rather players sitting in jets/planes. It would take a lot of data loading, so the moment the player enters/leaves plane may take just a bit longer time. Doing that when reaching certain height would be damaging to the playability.

Maybe even a mountain mesh for infantry which is out of draw distance.

Edited April 24, 2009 by sidhellfire

[celery 8]

But if BI don't implement it, you can't run that on servers that only uses signed files. But that not the biggest promblem.

I have Instant viewdistance mod for arma, and it works pretty good. My issue though is that not many players have it and therefore go CQB with aircrafts. I honestly can't fly without at least 6km of view.

No addons are needed if it's done with a script in the mission itself.

[walker 0]

Hi all

There are several view distance altering systems as Celery points out. I play on Zeus and they are a common function of the template.

They should be used sparingly, as sidhellfire realised. It increases server load as the server needs to send more information to the clients who can see further. It also is affects game balance both for human and AI units.

Generally the script should be designed to run only on a Pilot client when flying or AA units for balance and also snipers and Forward observers. The ability for AI to move in the direction of a sniper shooting them from above their view distance is also important; so that they may interdict the sniper.

It is useful for an admin and the relevant clients to have the ability to turn the function On and Off. This enables them to reduce server load or rejig game balance.

In Reply to sidhellfire's point

...Maybe an introduction of a low polygon count map model for players airborne...

Already implemented in the ArmA engine that is what view distance LODs do!

Kind Regards walker

[Crazyfox 0]

No addons are needed if it's done with a script in the mission itself.

Guys, you don't seem to get my point.

If it's not implemented in the official game people will still do CQB air fighting. Even if someone puts a script in a mission/server or some people use a mod.

Im just tired of playing online as a pilot and having a gunner who can't shoot until he is within 1000m range of the target becouse he don't have and has never heard of a certain mod.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Crazyfox saying

...If it's not implemented in the official game...

Is just plane not true.

"setviewdistance" is a standard ArmA function, heck its been in the Real Virtuality engine since OFP1

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setViewDistance

So BIS have done their part.

You must play on some weired half ass servers and missions if they do not bother to use it. If it is not in the implementation of missions you play then contact the mission maker, if the Servers you are playing on do not implement it then ask them to change it or play somewhere that does.

As Celery points out it is one of the easiest things to do.

I can see you are new to the forums so your forgiven for not knowing this.

Kind regards walker

[Crazyfox 0]

Hi all

Crazyfox saying

Is just plane not true.

"setviewdistance" is a standard ArmA function, heck its been in the Real Virtuality engine since OFP1

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setViewDistance

So BIS have done their part.

You must play on some weired half ass servers and missions if they do not bother to use it. If it is not in the implementation of missions you play then contact the mission maker, if the Servers you are playing on do not implement it then ask them to change it or play somewhere that does.

As Celery points out it is one of the easiest things to do.

I can see you are new to the forums so your forgiven for not knowing this.

Kind regards walker

I know of the setviewdistance function.

I'm guessing almost all missionmakers and server admins use that function, but they only use it once. I can't think of ever seeing anyone putting in diffrent viewdistances for diffrent vehicles.

But maybe you are saying I should contact all missionmakers and server admins and tell them to use scripts similar to Celery's?

Overall I think that the viewdistance should be set by the client user only. Why aren't the missionmakers able to set the level of anti-aliasing for each mission?

[Maddmatt 1]

Overall I think that the viewdistance should be set by the client user only.

The problem with that is fairness. Yea it does kinda suck being forced to use a low viewdistance to cater for the weaker PCs but sometimes you gotta make small sacrifices for other people.

Also AI is affected by the viewdistance of the PC they are local to.

[An-225 0]

Fairness? If I payed for a computer able to run ArmA 2, I should be able to use it to its full capability. Natural limitations, such as fog, are fine, but to limit the view distance and remove all aesthetically pleasing features such as grass?

[Maddmatt 1]

Fairness? If I payed for a computer able to run ArmA 2, I should be able to use it to its full capability. Natural limitations, such as fog, are fine, but to limit the view distance and remove all aesthetically pleasing features such as grass?

Well if you don't want to consider other people, tough shit.

You can play with whatever settings you like on your own server or singleplayer.

[An-225 0]

Why can't the server just leave the player to his/her own settings though? If someone's PC cannot handle a high view distance, they can turn it down themselves...I use a Pentium 4, 3.2 GHz, and I have no expectation to drag down all those poor sods who payed $1000 just for a QX9650.

I plan to build a new PC, based off an Intel i7, and I don't want people with old tech to drag me down either.

I have enough sense to set my VD accordingly. I believe it is set to 900 meters.

[Benoist 0]

Because in PvP a guy with a viewdistance of 5km will have an advantage agains someone who uses the normal 1200 meters setting.

[Maddmatt 1]

Why can't the server just leave the player to his/her own settings though? If someone's PC cannot handle a high view distance, they can turn it down themselves...I use a Pentium 4, 3.2 GHz, and I have no expectation to drag down all those poor sods who payed $1000 just for a QX9650.

.

Some servers do. It's a feature in some missions, mainly coop since fairness isn't such a problem there.

But when it comes to PvP missions it's unfair so they tend to force it. Not nice to get sniped from beyond your viewdistance.

Many will turn grass off in PvP for the advantage if it's optional.

I also plan to get myself a high end PC after the ArmA 2 release.

My idea on how to handle it:

Maybe BIS could allow a different way of handling it for ArmA 2 that doesn't rely on scripting.

One way could be to allow the server to set a maximum viewdistance. So people can't set it past a certain point to get a huge advantage but some can lower if if they want.

For grass they should force it on or off, but if it's on they should still allow terrain detail to be set by the person so the grass draw distance/detail can be controlled a bit.

Servers could also be allowed to remove the limits completely if they want, that would be fine for coop missions.

[An-225 0]

For PvP, I concur, and I see that as a valid point.

My perception of it was that the idea was to enforce such settings even in Co-op.

I don't think grass should be forced on or off server side. Mainly because the player can change that setting, so it can be tailored to what you prefer already. The advantage of performance through lack of grass, or the difficulty of not being able to see through thick grass and an aesthetically pleasing look. Having it on client side would not affect other players.

For all co-op missions, the graphics should be completely at the client's discretion.

[max power 21]

I think it should always be up to the server or mission maker whether or not to let players fool around with settings. Right now with Celery's scripts, the server can choose whether or not to run missions with it on. I think this works for the best. Servers can run games whether they bend more towards equality or individual freedoms based on what their goal is in terms of atmosphere and accomodation. So, whether it done via missions scripts or in-built controls, I think it should be up to the server or mission maker what settings are enforced, if any.

[sidhellfire 0]

Well, if server is using like 6km viewdistance even it is crazy PVP host with robots urging to have at least 60fps and equal performance I see no point in prohibiting a player to choose that 'handicap' to improve game experience. People have brains - if they don't like current server configuration they're ought to change the server.

[Crazyfox 0]

I say that if you don't have the rig to run arma2 at at least a viewdistance of 2km (which is the maximum distance you cat get sniped at) and 6km of viewdistance when flying, then your rig don't meet the minimum requirements to play the game. Not PvP play anyway.

People should be able to change viewdistance for their needs when playing online. Honestly how many of you here tink servers will use scripts like Celery's?

[walker 0]

Hi all

Most of this is for server admins and mission makers but players should read it in order to understand

How view distance works in MP. Admins for the few who do not already know!

This is how view distance is observed to work in MP:

1) View distance is local to each machine, in other words you can set view distance separately on each machine.

2) Long view distances affect low spec servers in much the same way as lots of AI do; they will slow it down.

3) The further everyone can see including AI on the server the more load on bandwidth, everything that has to be seen has to be reported to those who can see it; so it needs to be optimised

4) The server's view distance affects all AI who are not AI of a player (and there for local to them)

5) A players view distance is the same for players AI, and I think any local to them in MP, I think but have not tested for sure this means AI in a vehicle the player is driving will be local to that player.

6) If you shoot AI from beyond their view distance they do not react well, you are cheating the AI local to that machine, cheating AI is lame and far worse than cheating a player, if you want to shoot fish in a barrel play COD4.

7) Some machines cannot run long view distances; so ask all players if that view distance is OK for them.

8) Do not have players who are running low spec machines play in roles where they have to use long view distance.

How to use it. Mision makers this is for you!

So what does this all mean?

a) Use different view distances in MP games carefully and logically.

b) Make it controllable by Admin settings, do not just let all players decide their own view distance.

c) High view distances use up bandwidth and CPU so OPTIMIZE!

d) Consider is the cheat valid and therefore not a cheat?

When is a cheat not a cheat!

i) Give the capability to pilots they need it and it does not adversely affect the AI in the main but allow AA a degree of the same capability

ii) Snipers with BIG scopes can shoot you from beyond a distance you can spot them at in reality so they should be able to do this in game but balance it!

iii) Observers using digital binoculars such as laser designators should have the capability

iv) AI should get the capability same as players!

And please forgive crazyfox he has not been on the forums long.

Kind Regards walker

Edited April 25, 2009 by walker
Titles for clarity, moved points from Missionmaker to admin

[Crazyfox 0]

Walker, we are discussing the viewdistance for Arma2 here and not for Armed assault.

And please forgive crazyfox he has not been on the forums long.

I've been reading these forums for more than a year, Im just not someone who like to post just to make myself heard. :rolleyes:

If you are implying Im being wrong in any of my statements, please say so.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Crazyfox I already pointed out one case where you were wrong and misleading when you said with regard to setviewdistance:

...If it's not implemented in the official game...

Others have pointed out why your idea that any player should be able to choose their own view distance in MP could be cheating, I reiterated and expanded on that point; explaining how it would adversely affect gameplay technically in terms of FPS and lag.

The post I just made applies to the Real Virtuality Engine period. They are generalised points about optimization for player and admins and that apply to any game with long view distances that are alterable as well as pointers for future and existing mission makers in ArmA I and ArmA II, in suggested selective use of setviewdistance.

And the nature of a forum is that it is there for all to be heard; a place of public debate.

Kind Regards walker

Edited April 25, 2009 by walker

[Sniperwolf572 758]

And the nature of a forum is that it is there for all to be heard; a place of public debate.

Walker, remember what you just wrote before patronizing others again, like you did in your previous post.

Keep it civil gentlemen.

[walker 0]

Hi Sniperwolf572

Crazyfox, I apologise I was stepping over the line, when I pointed out how long you had been on the forums.

Kind Regards walker

[Crazyfox 0]

Crazyfox I already pointed out one case where you were wrong and misleading when you said with regard to setviewdistance:

I wasn't wrong becouse I didn't say that setviewdistance wasn't implemented.

What I said was that I wanted BI to implement this:

If the game doesn't increase view distance when flying, I'd say it's fairly easy to implement it into individual missions with a script.

Addressing the script. Just so not every mission maker needs to put it in there. As for you confidence that mission makers will use such a script, i do not share it.

Others have pointed out why your idea that any player should be able to choose their own view distance in MP could be cheating, I reiterated and expanded on that point; explaining how it would adversely affect gameplay technically in terms of FPS and lag.

The post I just made applies to the Real Virtuality Engine period. They are generalised points about optimization for player and admins and that apply to any game with long view distances that are alterable as well as pointers for future and existing mission makers in ArmA I and ArmA II, in suggested selective use of setviewdistance.

Yes I can understand that some people call it cheating, and that it require some hardware for servers and players alike. Here is my reply to that.

Having view distance as the regulating factor to minimize lag is wrong.

One of the great things about BI's games is the landscapes and the vehicles. To be able to utilize these things to their full potential should be the top priority. A slow server should instead try to have more optimized missions than to beat down on the view distance.

I think clients should be able to change their view distance in the official game without a downloaded mod. As for server admins, maybe they can be given the possibility to set a maximum allowed distance?

When it comes to cheating, the graphics shouldnt interfere with gameplay. If you as player can't play with such a high view distance that you can see the enemy and you are playing with the lowest graphics possible, then you need a better PC. You need to draw the line somewhere when it comes to minimum hardware requirements.

Im aware that I can get all my whises granted with the correct server settings. But if i get into a plane today on 98% of Arma 1's servers I will be flying with a view of less than 4km. And thats the problem im adressing here.

Edit: Np Walker.

[celery 8]

Addressing the script. Just so not every mission maker needs to put it in there. As for you confidence that mission makers will use such a script, i do not share it.

Im aware that I can get all my whises granted with the correct server settings. But if i get into a plane today on 98% of Arma 1's servers I will be flying with a view of less than 4km. And thats the problem im adressing here.

What the devs don't include in the game out of the box is frankly the responsibility of mission makers, they are the ones who decide how their missions are going to work. My philosophy in such things is to make whatever script that a mission needs to be a better mission, no matter what the vanilla game is like, and then I gladly share the script with others if I see potential use for it outside the mission I made.

If there isn't any dynamic view distance coded into the game, promoting a script that does so to mission makers and able server admins is the only way to roll.