Arma2 AI the most advanced in the world?

[quicksand 0]

Hi all,for the past months I have become really interested in artificial intelligence currently present in the gaming world.

I realise that most of the AIs in close quarter games are just heavily scripted for specific missions(Call of Duty style) and even some of the sandbox games apply the same principles despite all they promised(Crysis),thus I am nearing the conclusion that above all it's flaws,jerkiness,and non-human behavior,the artificial intelligence in Op. Flash/Arma/Arma 2 is the most flexible and advanced in any game.Not only for it's present state but for it's potential in the as of yet unreleased Arma2,it's just very feasable to see how the developers could add CQB,more complex behaviour and human-life activity-an example of this are the civillians who will gather in cities and have their own separate behavior patterns...all in all I`m drooling to see the AIs state in Arma2.

But I might be wrong.There are plenty sandbox games I haven't touched like Farcry 2 for example so there is room to change my mind

I would be interested to hear all your opinions on your definition of what intelligent AI in games truly means and which is the most advanced one currently out there.

[Maddmatt 1]

Yea ArmA AI does appear dumb at times. But when you consider all the situations it can go in and how basic the instructions that it needs from the mission creator to function are, well it's hard to imagine what the code behind it must be like

Especially what the AI can do with the guard waypoint (hunting you all over the map), it's impressive.

Now if the main problems would be sorted out it would be awesome

[11aTony 0]

OMG, FarCry 2 has one of the most lame AI I have ever seen. They are just like you would play FPS from '95 or smt. They were supposed to fell down and whine if you shoot him in the leg and his buddys would come to help him and stuff like that. Well non of that happened. I was really annoyed by that they are sooo stiff and they do not go crouch or anything. They just rush you with that stiff stance and usually 1st bullet they fire, hits. Luckely, you are rambo and you can take like 10 hits or so before you are down. AI is shooting .50 cal on you and you are like "hey, shut up already and let me stab a knife in your stomach". Then you can actually run to him and knife him even if he had emptied whole box on you.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

Mmmmm well lets point out some things about AI in Arma:

- If they spot you / hear you they allways chase after you no matter if its an ambush and there are 20 or 100 death bodies of his comrades in the same spot.

- Obviously the AI dont know anything about armor warfare (HE ammo? what is that for?)

- They are fanatics... morale is not modeled

- They are absolutely incappable of going inside a building

Sometimes although its complexity this game feels like the vintage Space Invaders ... I mean you just go there and shoot things that move at random.

[lwlooz 0]

Hello,

I am convinced the "Real Virtuality" engine has the best AI in the entire FPS market. Like with so many thing BIS laid an excellent base for with genius ideas in OFP , the AI is one of them.

Of course like some many other things BIS seems unable to improve it to a major level.

In my eyes the only thing thats wrong with it is it lack of precise pathfinding in dense enviroments, its almost complete lack of analysing survivability, feasibility of task (The good old "4,Engage 5th Army Group all by yourself") and friendly forces in the area. [You could add proper ways to operate your vehicle , i.e not charging like a knight , but thats nitpicking]

Other than that it seems unpredictable and dynamic enough to fight proper wars. I fear tho that with all the cries for scripted AI in ArmA2 it may look more clever, but it will be as predictable as in all other games and it will serve nothing more than running into your line of fire in very nice looking ways.

As for the best AI overall I have ever seen. I think that award still goes out to these guys: Panther Games

[mr.g-c 6]

I fear tho that with all the cries for scripted AI in ArmA2 it may look more clever...

Wow, i never heard of any request in that direction....

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]

@lwlooz

Of course like some many other things BIS seems unable to improve it to a major level.

Indeed that was what I was fearing too.I do agree that BIS had a stroke of geniality with Operatio Flashpoint in 2001,the AI was revolutionary.I would have expected that by the time Armed Assault was released BIS would have taken care first of all the much needed minor refinements then maybe AI understanding when he is in an urban environment,entering buildings,morale and possibly even intelligent assesement of a situation(when outnumbered,when outgunned,etc).Alas,it was not to be.

But some of this things are expected to be seen in Arma 2 and I don't think it will take the form of predictable scripting,it's just not BIS way they would at least add enough variation to not seem Call of Duty-ish.

But the fact that it's taking them so long to implement this features that seemed somewhat straightforward is a statement to the complexity of AI coding,kinda like when in the 50s everyone thought we would have sentient AI in ~20 years,a task that we seem to be nowhere closer to fulfilling at the moment.

Big game developers  also seem to have little interest to take A.I to new heights,when the COD formula of cheap thrills seems to work so well for a singleplayer experience,developing cycles are under much stress to meat deadline and it's much more appealing to integrate the newest DirectX then to work on something as frustrating and time consuming as AI...So with all this into consideration BIS again seems to be my only hope...

[mr.g-c 6]

@quicKsanD:

Thats why BIS games are Longlasting, and all the "other mainstream money cows" like the COD Series are "one-play-campaign-throw-in-garbage" wonders....

[Second 0]

ArmA's AI in all my "analysis" is advanced... Outside combat. In combat it's years behind it's time. Sadly. This is like crowbar into knee at least for me.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

- They are absolutely incappable of going inside a building

That is absolutely not true.

[Lepardi 0]

ArmA 2 AI is just a finetuned version of OFP ai while OFP 2 is completely new and seems to be much more intelligent according to new previews that came out this month.

Like when they are put to defend a village, they will seek position from the houses and if you overrun them they will fall back to another positions by themselves.

[Kimmeh 0]

Well, I personally wouldn't say the most advanced AI in the world. I mean, stuff like car-assembly robots and UAV programs, smart bombs etcetera are pretty advanced too. But talking within the realm of games, it does not allways -look- smart, but by the gods it -is- the smartest most advanced game-AI I've ever seen.

Scripted stuff like CoD may do it for those who want their game to be a bit cinematic, but I'd rather have ArmA(2)'s clunky, buggy, crack-shot, stand-prone-stand-prone robotic-speaking AI.

Just something about it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Kimmy

[Michael_Wittman 0]

- They are absolutely incappable of going inside a building

That is absolutely not true.

Stadistically is a FACT.

[dmakatra 1]

Mmmmm well lets point out some things about AI in Arma:

- If they spot you / hear you they allways chase after you no matter if its an ambush and there are 20 or 100 death bodies of his comrades in the same spot.

- Obviously the AI dont know anything about armor warfare (HE ammo? what is that for?)

- They are fanatics... morale is not modeled

- They are absolutely incappable of going inside a building

Sometimes although its complexity this game feels like the vintage Space Invaders ... I mean you just go there and shoot things that move at random.

Actually, morale is modelled. Both points one and three of your arguments are just wrong. What you've encountered is sloppy mission design, not sloppy AI coding. Don't blame the AI coding just because you're playing Evolution where the AI is randomly generated with little thought to it.

The AI has a lot of problems, I'd be the first to admit that. For me, the AI overhaul is the number one priority in ArmA2. The other features are just a bonus. Driving needs fixing, tactics needs an overhaul, pathfinding is ridiculous, the list goes on and on.

However, as someone who has spent an awful lot of time in the mission editor and with notepad writing scripts, I do not want an AI that is independent. The level of independence in ArmA is fine, not mess with it. Otherwise it would be a headache for the mission designer every time he wants to create a specific scenario. The more independent the AI gets, the more dynamic it'll become, and that means it will be a lot harder to control for the mission designer.

To meet your first point. Say I wanted to make a scenario where the AI is massing an all-out assault. If the AI would react the way you wanted it, it'd override my intended scenario.

What we want is an improved AI, not a more dynamic AI. There's a huge difference. People are giving the ArmA AI a lot of criticism because they are playing lots of missions where the mission designer is unwilling to utilise the AI's full capacity.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

- They are absolutely incappable of going inside a building

That is absolutely not true.

Stadistically is a FACT.

There is a building in Parisio that has about 5-6 flights of stairs, then a medium ladder going to a small room on the rooftop.

I've seen enemy AI come up after me, many times. (I luv hearing their boots climbing to me)

This is not the only building I've seen this, but it is the highest, with stairs and a ladder.

[Kimmeh 0]

If the AI would react the way you wanted it, it'd override my intended scenario.

What we want is an improved AI, not a more dynamic AI. There's a huge difference. People are giving the ArmA AI a lot of criticism because they are playing lots of missions where the mission designer is unwilling to utilise the AI's full capacity.

I am Kimmeh, and I approve of this!

Good to see another mission maker who thinks the same way about it.

[Lepardi 0]

- They are absolutely incappable of going inside a building

That is absolutely not true.

Stadistically is a FACT.

There is a building in Parisio that has about 5-6 flights of stairs, then a medium ladder going to a small room on the rooftop.

I've seen enemy AI come up after me, many times. (I luv hearing their boots climbing to me)

This is not the only building I've seen this, but it is the highest, with stairs and a ladder.

But they are absolutely incapable of utilizing that building as cover/defensive position unlike OFP 2.

[lt.chris 0]

Quote[/b] ]But they are absolutely incapable of utilizing that building as cover/defensive position unlike OFP 2.

and how do you know this? codemasters has realesed hardly anything to do with OFP2 nevermind how the AI behave  

[Big Dawg KS 6]

But they are absolutely incapable of utilizing that building as cover/defensive position unlike OFP 2.

That is absolutely not true.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

But they are absolutely incapable of utilizing that building as cover/defensive position unlike OFP 2.

That is absolutely not true.

You are absolutely getting on my nerves  

Now seriously... from the several hunders or thousans of hours I´ve played I´ve only saw them going inside a building to chase someone just a couple of times.. that makes 0,0001%

and the times I´ve seen them run into a building to take cover is 0 ... that makes 0%

The sad par is not only it happen with buildings ... it also happens in terraces.. never got my sniping disturbed at the high terrace on Ortego by a AI clever enough to go up there.

[sparks50 0]

Ive mostly seen them get into with AI mods enabled.

So the issue is not that they cant get into buildings, its just that they dont want to.

[-Snafu- 78]

Nevermind.

[Second 0]

But they are absolutely incapable of utilizing that building as cover/defensive position unlike OFP 2.

That is absolutely not true.

Yeah. Just half true. In ArmA If you place AI into building and order it to take cover (by scripting for example)... Guess what? He rushes out from building to nearest bush   I've tested it and i can approve this message (along with Dmakatra's)

So independetly they are unable to use at least insides of buildings. It requires some very basic scripting to "teach" them that.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Download this mission and play it without any mods.

Sparks50 is right, AI units aren't programmed to exploit buildings and enterable structures with their default tactics, but they are able to identify a location inside of a structure that properly incorporates AI pathfinding LODs and travel there, or to incorporate routes through such structures into their regular pathfinding. I can base this on a few years of experience playing with OFP/ArmA AI in scripting and in creating missions, and yes this was even true in OFP (to a less reliable extent).

The action of seeking cover or a defensive position inside of a structure, something ArmA AI is technically capable of, is simply not programmed into these default set of tactics, which is why you do not often witnessed it. But thanks to ArmA's support for creating new AI FSMs, and improved scripting language, implimenting such tactics could very well be possible.

The AI in ArmA is very flexible, and I think it's common that people get the impression that this unscripted, just-placed-in-the-editor AI is all that they are capable of.

On a final note however, from the viewpoint of someone who enjoys creating missions, I have to say that I prefer the amount of control I have as the mission designer over the AI in vanilla ArmA. While it's cool to have smart AI capable of thinking for themselves, it can get very frustrating if they decide to do something that messes up your mission design. This is why I'm uneasy using enhancement mods such as SLX or ACE. I only wish they would have taken ECP as an example of how to enhance the experience without interfering with the mission creator's design.

[twisted 128]

But thanks to ArmA's support for creating new AI FSMs, and improved scripting language, implimenting such tactics could very well be possible.

i have never ever seen custom FSMs properly implemented in Arma. Mostly becuase AFAIK the AI defaults to its built-in FSMs.

would love to see FSMs that have been made to work and not be overwritten.