ArmA2 and Bohemia Interactive

[mr.g-c 6]

Alright so BIA is a subsidiary company of BIS (or even not). So what? What you want to achieve with this discussion?

What this fact has to do with ArmA2? Except that some models currently used in VBS2 are being used in ArmA2 too.

We really don't need another endless discussion of BIS is evil because they get money from BIA (allegedly) which in return makes money from developing a military training simulation.

We all know where this ends at:

1. People coming up demanding that everything from VBS2 must be in ArmA2 (and be it just because ArmA1 was totally bugged upon release).

2. Next might be insults because it's clear that 1. never happens.

3. The thread gets locked because 1 or 2 or both.

So, end of discussion re. BIS and BIA relationship. It's pointless, really.

What do you mean with "So what?"...

My answer: So nothing ....

No seriously: Its just that everytime people mention BIA, "ohh the holy BIA", but don't understand that they (BIS & BIA) are not 2 entirely different companies and so (as you already cut into it correctly), it could be possible to share work.

And no, i'm not demanding anything from VBS2, nor do i see or expect insults here - topic seems to "flow" just smooth.

But sure, we stick with the topic now again.

Quote[/b] ]No, because of the name CODEMASTERS:)

'From the makers of the very succesful DIRT and GRID games, now comes the ultimate military simulator, the sequel to the million seller OFP ... we present Operation Flashpoint 2'

Or something along those lines. With simultaneous release on PC, 360 and PS3, with demo's and stuff to boot and a lot of marketing ... i think you get the picture here:)

(otoh, CM needs to sell more, cause i guess they have invested more in developing OFP2 ... and those bills have to be paid ... i think the target should at least be 1 million copies)

Well actually i disagree with this, or Codemasters behavior on this.

I think its rather BIS right, and hell BIS really should mention it more often when press is there/whenever that "they have made the awesome OFP1" - not codemasters.

For the part that they invested more.... well... what they did is:

They laid-off the model-work or even more to a company in malaysia, in which the average wages are probably 1/10 or less (speculation) from the ones in their homeland great-britain.

Do i need to say more?  

But otherwise, *IF* they make OFP2 as realistic as they claim then they want to assure that enough copies get sold and this could give the whole "sector" of "military/realism-simulations" a massive boost into the mainstream - and as we saw with OFP1, the markets for it are there!!!

Sadly, that most likely Arma2 will be out before OFP2(speculation) - if it would be vice-versa, then Arma2 could have benefit from that.

Or BIS invest in a massive ad-campaign (not necessary classical paid "Ads", i rather mean expanding the public-relations and press-contacts) when Arma2 is ready...

I think they already did great with the Press-Kit PDFs and the Arma2 Homepage (both are excellent designed! and the (compared to Arma1) many previews/press-events/etc.... that is certainly the right step i believe.

[dm 9]

but don't understand that they (BIS & BIA) are not 2 entirely different companies and so (as you already cut into it correctly), it could be possible to share work.

And some people dont seem to understand that they are not entirely the same company.

As you tell Serclaes

Quote[/b] ]go learn some business stuff...

then you would know all about the issues of IP, IP ownership, and so on and so fourth.

You seem to be in a magical fairy-tale world where all staff of all semi-related companies can be shared back and fourth at the drop of a hat. Again, anyone with an understanding of business would know that this is true.

Anyho, werent you banned for your constant BI bashing? Who keeps letting the trolls back in?

[mr.g-c 6]

Quote[/b] ]Anyho, werent you banned for your constant BI bashing? Who keeps letting the trolls back in?

No, i think you know the reason, it was because you insulted me the last time and i fired back, if you remember.

Also im not bashing anyone... you should read my posts a bit more careful

Quote[/b] ]You seem to be in a magical fairy-tale world where all staff of all semi-related companies can be shared back and fourth at the drop of a hat. Again, anyone with an understanding of business would know that this is true.

Really, how do you know that, that i think like that? Do you know me personally/what i do?

Or do you judge people by stuff they write in forums?

Don't you think its a little tooooo time consuming to express anything in 10.000 of lines as clear as possible, with 1000 times that "this and that" is not meant, rather "this and that".... Then the language barrier and so on....

Not to speak about a lack of readers for such killer posts.

Its alway up to what guys interpret when reading others posts.

Again, i don't "bash" (what a lame term btw.) anyone here, we just have a nice discussion.

[lwlooz 0]

Oh really? That is a discussion?

To me it looks like the usual bitchslapping contest between you and BI staff,BI affiliates and Old-Guard community members about wether BI is evil and/or -REMOVED- or not.

That is rather unfortunate. Because besides what people might think about you , I doubt anyone gets this much attention on this very forum. One can get jealous .

On Topic:

I really really fail to see how the "Real Virtuality" game series is something for casual gamers still.

Correct me if I am wrong , but from my personal experience one plays casual games to hop in and get Insta-Fun.

They do that great, especially on consoles. But that unfortunately comes with them being rather shallow and stale after a bit.

I tell you what I will do once ArmA2 comes out to highlight the difference.

First I will update my debug console, try out all new script commands, find all annoying limitations and bugs , post them in vain to get them fixed.

Meanwhile some of my online colleagues will check out the new config features, create a quick config mod. Then we will create some MP maps and just then we can play.

That doesn't sound like "Jump In, Insta Fun" for me. If that isn't "niche gaming" , I don't know what it is.

I know the idea of selling to the millions of casual gamers out there is an intriguing one , but as said this game is far to "difficult to grasp" no matter how hard BIS will try to adapt it to the mainstream market already , it rather seems like a hopeless effort to do so.

On the other hand here you have an game that not only attracts Shooter fans,but also Sim-Players and Strategy/Wargames players. BIS still pretty much still has a monopoly on that.

Trying to keep those people entertained seems a much more realistic choice.

EDIT: I would like to apologize for a very wrong and highly inappropriate use of words. I did not seriously want to link mr.gc to fucked up ideologies or imply he thinks of BIS like that.

Even tho its no excuse , it was a long day , and I had a serious error in judgement , with shows great stupidity , which I regret.

[mr.g-c 6]

Quote[/b] ]Oh really? That is a discussion?

To me it looks like the usual bitchslapping contest between you and BI staff,BI affiliates and Old-Guard community members about wether BI is evil and/or "Untermenschen" or not.

Untermenschen: Well i don't know where you are from, but that term makes me very angry in regards to our past!

I would never use that term since Hitler called Jews, Gypsies, Gay people and disabled ones like that... i have no other words to comment that term - really "sad".

It is utterly shameless in my opinion to use this terms, when you think about that millions of people around europe that terribly died and suffert because of such a shit.

Edit: Also i feel a little bit offended because you bring my Name in conjunction with such a bad bad term.

I am open for every criticism against me - i'm critic about others, so others can be critic about me and can make unpopular comments/questions on me - but please don't use Nazi Terms in conjunction with my name (it sound like i said that about BIS), since my ancestors were Jews and our family suffered from that shit. Thank you!

Bitchslapping:

It might sound like, but when you really read all posts by me, then i have not said a single line against BIS, the Moderators, BIS affiliates (who is meant), or else...

Nor do i mentioned that BIS/BIA is "evil" (a overweighted term btw.).

I just mentioned that BIA is "owned" by BIS, to say that code might be exchanged, since both is based on similar code-background. (i have written it very simple, but i'm certainly aware that its of course not so easy).

Quote[/b] ].... but as said this game is far to "difficult to grasp" no matter how hard BIS will try to adapt it to the mainstream market already , it rather seems like a hopeless effort to do so.

I think that the big success of OFP1 showed that its possible, i doubt that the whole world is "stupid" - its just that they only get "stupid stuff" the whole day in front of their eyes (very very simple expressed).

Also, as i already written, many people i knew at the point OFP1 came out, were usual shooter-players and they really liked OFP1 - and finally bought it.  

[W0lle 1048]

Alright so BIA is a subsidiary company of BIS (or even not). So what? What you want to achieve with this discussion?

What this fact has to do with ArmA2? Except that some models currently used in VBS2 are being used in ArmA2 too.

We really don't need another endless discussion of BIS is evil because they get money from BIA (allegedly) which in return makes money from developing a military training simulation.

We all know where this ends at:

1. People coming up demanding that everything from VBS2 must be in ArmA2 (and be it just because ArmA1 was totally bugged upon release).

2. Next might be insults because it's clear that 1. never happens.

3. The thread gets locked because 1 or 2 or both.

So, end of discussion re. BIS and BIA relationship. It's pointless, really.

What do you mean with "So what?"...

My answer: So nothing ....

No seriously: Its just that everytime people mention BIA, "ohh the holy BIA", but don't understand that they (BIS & BIA) are not 2 entirely different companies and so (as you already cut into it correctly), it could be possible to share work.

And no, i'm not demanding anything from VBS2, nor do i see or expect insults here - topic seems to "flow" just smooth.

But sure, we stick with the topic now again.

I haven't said that you are demanding something here but we all know that this happened in the past, more than once.

lwlooz

"Untermenschen" is the totally wrong term. I don't know if you understand what that term actually meant or means but no one ever said that BIS are "Untermenschen". A totally stupid accusation and in my opinion not even worth discussing this further.

Please take your personal attacks and stuff to PMs where you don't bother the rest of us.

[Commando84 0]

arma is a vehicle shooter imo. And in vehicle shooter is the whole play with vehicles or play only with soldiers

Anything goes in Arma, from rpg stuff and capture the flag to realism coop with long storytelling bits.

[mr.g-c 6]

I always thought it's a "infantry simulator"? Or hwo do you mean?

But you are right, nearly everything goes....thats also why i said that they "deserve" far higher sell-rates...

[Serclaes 0]

bah, forget it.

[maxqubit 1]

Quote[/b] ]No, because of the name CODEMASTERS:)

'From the makers of the very succesful DIRT and GRID games, now comes the ultimate military simulator, the sequel to the million seller OFP ... we present Operation Flashpoint 2'

Or something along those lines. With simultaneous release on PC, 360 and PS3, with demo's and stuff to boot and a lot of marketing ... i think you get the picture here:)

(otoh, CM needs to sell more, cause i guess they have invested more in developing OFP2 ... and those bills have to be paid ... i think the target should at least be 1 million copies)

Well actually i disagree with this, or Codemasters behavior on this.

I think its rather BIS right, and hell BIS really should mention it more often when press is there/whenever that "they have made the awesome OFP1" - not codemasters.

For the part that they invested more.... well... what they did is:

They laid-off the model-work or even more to a company in malaysia, in which the average wages are probably 1/10 or less (speculation) from the ones in their homeland great-britain.

Do i need to say more?  

You are too romantic:)

[NoRailgunner 0]

Quote[/b] ] hell BIS really should mention it more often when press is there/whenever that "they have made the awesome OFP1"

More and more people will ask in 2009/2010 and later "wtf is or was OFP"? Time is changing...new game, new round, new customers.

BIS could make an realistic infantry simulation but there are more people who like to be entertained, to have fun and enjoy their little spare time. Guess that simulation games are going down until nobody develops something real new + amazing. Maybe somewhere in the future with proper hardware and system/software/drivers there will be an ultimate "all-in-one" military simulation-like game.

Now I'm more interested on which pc systems ArmA2 will definitely run with low/normal/high settings. Hope that BIS is going to reveal some more informations asap.

[Second 0]

Alright so BIA is a subsidiary company of BIS (or even not). So what? What you want to achieve with this discussion?

Well, a wise man said its not a discussion until someone disagrees.

I'm just trying to understand what Second is saying, not starting ww3

I didn't say such thing, however i'm not natural english speaker, so it's possible that my writing refers to other thing that i ment to. Heck my progress in college (sort of) halted because my Swedish was filthy poor, i'm only one i know to have such personal "record". And i studied quite hard it as it was my weakness.   (ofcourse demanding teacher with demanding exams didn't help me. My english was average)

Correction: I said that i would believe workforce behind ArmA2 would be more like medium than small, however i can't offer solid facts.

Wolle: Sorry for taking this BI(S)'s size into discussion. I believe i'm to blame.

I just had horrible urge to try to tone down few cliches which seems to live (without criticism) in these forum. Other being that ArmA2 being a niece game for small amrkets and other being that workforce behind ArmA2 is so tiny that one can fit it in matchbox and put into his pocket.

Workforce then again relates to ArmA's possibilities in markets. So i believed that wouldn't be offtopic.

I always thought it's a "infantry simulator"? Or hwo do you mean?

But you are right, nearly everything goes....thats also why i said that they "deserve" far higher sell-rates...  

There is no such term. If character is mostly human then it's shooter, if vehicles are in main part than it's 'vehicle borne simulator'. ArmA is bit of both, but forexample OFP gets pushed to tactical shooter genre. Maybe because it's not nearly complete as vehicle simulator (high level of arcade and simpleness) as it is as shooter (which is pretty complete).

Simulation then again means different thing, i quess. Forexample wargames are simulations of how battles works out focusing on equipment, tactics, (quality of) personel, terrain and enemy. I don't know can ArmA be called simulation, well atleast BIS did... It has mission editor and by that it suits for experimental (teaching) use.

Lwlooz: Howcome ArmA is not instant fun? Mostly i play SP mission or two, while session lasts about half hour then i return to desktop. Mad 10 minutes in Clean Sweep then bit of Battlefield or Rat's Nest (until i bite the dust).

[max power 21]

workforce behind ArmA2 is so tiny that one can fit it in matchbox and put into his pocket.

That would be awesome... to be walking around with so much talent and know-how in your pocket. I'd bring it to parties and ask people if they want to see my mini development team.

"These guys do battle simulators. No, true fact. Some impressive landscape rendering stuff too... and mocap. Wait.. oh damn. Suma, where do you think you're going? Get back in there. I'd better close this thing up. They're always trying to climb out."

[sparks50 0]

If your mom stepped on them, there would be no Arma 3

[Pulverizer 1]

Quote[/b] ] hell BIS really should mention it more often when press is there/whenever that "they have made the awesome OFP1"

More and more people will ask in 2009/2010 and later "wtf is or was OFP"? Time is changing...new game, new round, new customers.

Average age of a pc gamer is over 30, likely even more for simmers, so the vast majority are still old enough to likely know of OFP.