Why are most pvp players laughable at best in arma

[TWCRASH 0]

problem isn't the people you all are complaining about. It's actually the game and the community. I have never seen a community so full of whining complainer knowit-alls in my life. You all complain about everything. If someone makes a mod it ain't good enough because it doesnt have certain troops or vehicles in it. if someone makes a mission it isnt scripted right, if someone hosts a 1.08 server you refuse to upgrade because you only play 1.05 and the list goes on. When did the fun leave the community and replaced by egotistic self proclaimed know it alls? You all need to check yourselves. Someone who doesn't know what the game is about or has never played OFP are in for a rude shock of just how slow and tactical it can be, and BORING and pissy the everyday players can be as well.I have played some missions you all have made and it takes 2 hours to see 1 iota of action. So instead of realising that you whine about how all the "pvp" people aren't as smart as you. I think this community has some very talented people in it but it is full of idiots who try and tell the rest of us how we should play. You don't like PVP players? So go play coop only I am sure the server you are whining on won't miss you.

[sparks50 0]

Nice rant. I do think this topic has some productive elements to it though.

[kklownboy 43]

To communicate, is key too the focus of firepower at the schwerpunk in game. Figure it out or die.

"professional" LOLOLOLOL, pifft, "professional" players are what is wrong with online gaming, a bunch of X@%** forsure...

PVP is for pu333ys, its where the cheats come from...

Leagues have no baring on the life of the game except to ruin it.

The only real good PVP games are Quake4, UT original, and COD4.

Arma will never be a PVP type game, the skills are too hard for most PVP type jerkoffs. PVP=cheaters and or noobs... ARMA is a COOP game, the best COOP game there is right now.

If you took all of the really good ARMA players out there, the ones who can use the interface, and mechanics in a fluid manner, you would be hard pressed to get 100 players... The real issue is there are way too many servers and not enough good players to fill more than five. So there will always be PVP types moaning about the game play, i say go to BF2 and stay away.

Also the server should remove the score board, keeps the idiots from bragging.

[NeMeSiS 11]

To communicate, is key too the focus of firepower at the schwerpunk in game. Figure it out or die.

"professional"  LOLOLOLOL, pifft, "professional" players are what is wrong with online gaming, a bunch of X@%** forsure...

 PVP is for pu333ys, its where the cheats come from...

 Leagues have no baring on the life of the game except to ruin it.

The only real good PVP games are Quake4, UT original, and COD4.

Arma will never be a PVP type game, the skills are too hard for most PVP type jerkoffs. PVP=cheaters and or noobs... ARMA is a COOP game, the best COOP game there is right now.

 If you took all of the really good ARMA players out there, the ones who can use the interface, and mechanics in a fluid manner, you would be hard pressed to get 100 players... The real issue is there are way too many servers and not enough good players to fill more than five. So there will always be PVP types moaning about the game play,  i say go to BF2 and stay away.

 

Also the server should remove the score board, keeps the idiots from bragging.

There is nothing wrong with playing against real people instead of AI, however there are alot of boring jobs (Guarding bases for hours, transportation of players, waiting on a base for 2 hours before being called in as reinforcement, ...) that are better suited for the AI which can lead to more dynamic, longer and more interesting missions. Also using AI is an easy way to enlarge the scale of a mission.

Thats also why most, of not all of the PvP 'missions' are much more focused on quick fun/kills and COOPs are more or less the opposite of that. ArmA is clearly made for the latter type of gameplay.

[kklownboy 43]

Just to let you know if iam jokeing or not. I have posters on my wall of my fave pros! scores and all. I see the klunkyness of pure FPS PvP style play that ARMA is but real life is klunkier... So i guess pros only play for the fastest Click and Spin tiltle. Hence, Quake4, heck even Halo is a better mouse and keyboard than 1.14.

and we know how many great pros came from Halo!

[volkov956 0]

Yea nothing more annoying in warfare to find out your whole team does not read the chat even after u state your found they're base and etc etc...

Even after telling my whole team i was destroying the nenemies base and when it ended they asked why did the game end??? Then i just get to laugh and leave the server to hopefully find another server with people with brains...

Or another is our MHQ blew up!!! No one notices or cares till later why dont we have an airport then u say well our MHQ blew up already and once again ur ignored and they try to vote a new commander thinking the other is just too lazy....

One thing about the lack of communication seems to be Team Speak some servers all the players are in there and they ignore the people who are chatting even if its critical Info. (I would prefer them to use VON built in but seems eveyr server I go to no one is using it or just 1 sap is)

[Migel 0]

I ( the handsome topic starter ) was basicly curious because why people sucked in pvp on this game.

Reading through the post I have this conclusion:

PVP in arma will never be that challenging because people that cooperate have a huge advantage over people that dont.

And that the people who are able to communicate and cooperate ( basicly using their brains in combat as well as skill ) are mostly playing coops, which leaves their other collegues greatly outnumbered on pvp servers with a bunch of retards.

Someone said the good pvpers simple left arma, but in my eyes also a lot of bad pvps have simple left arma so I was not sure if that should have been in the statement.

My solution:

I have finnished the campaign and coop multiplayer mode.

Spoiler:If u use concealment the ai never shoots back.

So guess I just lower my expectations from pvp players and play till ofp2/arma2 comes out.

Fact remains though that pvp is more challenging because of the killdeath ratio comparisement between human players and ai.

So I am more likely to get shot by a human player and therefor they form a greater challenge.

@commercialing people who named their server are not really helping. Joining any community would solve the problem of having no teamplay but most of u seemed to have named coop servers.. :/

For icarma its the same yet different story. You guys play coop against each other with over communication and realism that really cuts in on the effectiveness of the players. Even though I did enjoy the tourney my potential as a pvper only came into play when the game almost ended and many officers quited. In which i had to fend of my frustration on guarding a hill for over 2 hours in a video game on a nearby town filled with unexpected players.

[mollemannen 0]

i don't agree on your first post. i see people both on my and the opposing team cooperate with great progress sometimes. sure sometimes you end up brainless monkeys that rather scratch their but instead of focusing on tacing the current strategy but what game differs? theres always a chance there will be someone ruining the game either for you or your enemy.

[[asa]oden 0]

...

my frustration on guarding a hill for over 2 hours in a video game on a nearby town filled with unexpected players.

Hahahaha yeah, thats IC-ArmA alright - did the same for 3 hours first time I tried it.

There never was a 2nd try

[celery 8]

The PVP situation truly is weird. First of all many players lack simple situational awareness that consists of reading chat and kill messages; listening, locating and recognizing different gunshots and knowing where you are and what you should do. The second thing that is lacking is skills. Sure, ArmA has some complex stuff in it but the basic things such as shooting a gun and hitting with it shouldn't be that much to ask.

The most ridiculous thing is that those players who actually know how to play ArmA are often regarded as cheaters by the people who are still figuring out how to play the game, including some of those so-called professional communities that sometimes have public PVP games. I frequently get banned simply for showing what I can do in a deathmatch, something that would be quite easy to learn if you'd think outside the box of "playing a war sim properly" which for many people basically means sitting on your ass in a bush while the war sweeps by you and leaves you wondering what the hell just happened.

[dale0404 5]

This is not a plug just an explanation of my point of view.

I started my clan for the exact reason of people not communicating with each other, be it on a COOP mission or PVP style mission. I was getting pissed off with no teamwork within the game itself.

I believed this to be down to lack of communication and direction. I like playing Arma but I also like realism thrown in as well. Its really frustrating to go onto a public server to find that all everyone wants to do is to get to the top of the leaderboard and fick everyone else whilst they are doing it. We have a Server and Teamspeak that is open to the public but I only usually allow people on TS if they are willing to work as a team. If they are more interested in gaining points then they fick off.

[cain2001 0]

I just want to say that ArmA player settings makes the game really hard to get used too. in OFP you can in a month learn to master the basic levels of the game. In ArmA it takes a year because its so much harder. It has to do with everything from the controlls to the gamestyle itself being "slow".

[weegee_101 0]

While I see what you're getting at Migel, I'm not sure I entirely agree. Yes, there are some serious boneheads on public servers, but they're public servers. Serious gameplay is almost never found on a public server for any game. I think its safe to say that 50% of all ArmA pubbers are jumping on to play the game casually. The best thing I would recommend is find a small group of friendly players and meet up on a pub regularly. Finding a difficult group to play against will be hard, if not impossible, but I think you'll have to find a community that is serious about the game, because you will always have those players on the public servers that, again, don't want to play seriously.

[blazer01 0]

what do I get NO REPLY AND 3 mins LATER THEY GET TAKEN OUT.

@ cain2001

just want to say that ArmA player settings makes the game really hard to get used too. in OFP you can in a month learn to master the basic levels of the game. In ArmA it takes a year because its so much harder. It has to do with everything from the controlls to the gamestyle itself being "slow".

bit like me i play EVO more than any thing PvP is well not go in to that but ya i play Sniper am all ways tell the lot of tham wots comein and that and all ways get a big thank you off tham unlike PvP and @ cain2001 if you can learn OfP in a month than ArmA is not that hard to master

[beta 0]

The reason is simple in my opinion ...

The AI.

For 99% of ArmA players, their first exposure was playing against the AI.

MOST ArmA servers run some sort of Player vs. AI mission regularly.

So, when you start playing against other people, you keep your old habits.

Oh, you don't have to worry about concealment, the AI can't see you this far.

Things like contact drills ... when fighting against the AI, the most effective one is to stop, go prone, find out where they are shooting at you from, and shoot them.

Most servers have changed the AI to be quite inaccurate. It comes as a shock to people when they are shot and killed with 1 round at 200m. That is EASILY doable with an M16A2 or an AK-74. The AI can even do this ... but they don't, because of their deviation.

Playing against the AI doesn't instill the need for quick thinking and action, always finding and using cover and concealment, and other things like suppressing fire, speculative fire, etc.

Generally, you lack a sense of urgency. The AI either runs full speed at you, or they go prone and wait. Humans don't. They flank, find a vantage point and generally try to get into a better position to kill you.

Not to mention a good portion of the popular TvT missions don't really require teamwork .. but that's a whole different issue.

[The_Captain 0]

To add to what beta said... most coop or TvT missions themselves don't instill a sense of urgency on the player. Generally, in a coop mission the AI cannot "win" by itself, all it can do is kill you while you're trying to complete your objective, and they usually hang out in one place (DAC etc excepted). So, really, you have as much time as you want to sit on your thumbs, come up with a ridiculous plan, and take your time slowly exterminating the AI... it might be a good strategy, but it doesn't exactly give players the "combat" feeling...

As for TvT missions, respawn missions usually make this mission feel very "samey": players you kill come back quickly, while no respawn missions are too harsh: after the first or second engagement, most players are dead. And if the combat area in a TvT area is *too* large, most players don't encounter more than one or two enemies at a time, and one or the other usually has a very quick death, leading to almost nonexistent firefights. 32 players do not an entire island invasion force make... These factors makes TvT missions generally more frustrating than exciting. It's hard to get good at playing against other people when 95% of your time playing the game is waiting to respawn, traveling to where there might be combat, capturing some undefended objective, or rearming, while only 5% is movement and shooting in combat.

[celery 8]

It's hard to get good at playing against other people when 95% of your time playing the game is waiting to respawn, traveling to where there might be combat, capturing some undefended objective, or rearming, while only 5% is movement and shooting in combat.

Deathmatches are the supreme way of actually getting good at fighting, and not just against human opponents but good at ArmA in general, in almost all its aspects from small arms to vehicles, individual tactics and the understanding of psychology in combat situations. That and they are a barrel load of fun as well because the waiting-fighting ratio is weighted for the latter.

It's unfortunate that many players with a more narrow view of "how things should be" think that there is no room for such kind of gameplay in a game where you can script pretty much anything and have fun with it. It's being said that DM and other pvp missions with abstract objectives and respawn are unrealistic but the irony is that most of the missions in ArmA are just as unrealistic: 5 men vs 100 retards with guns? How realistic are the 3-5 missions that are played online more than anything else? Stop kidding yourself and drop the sim freak clichés.

If one doesn't like to play against human opponents because it's too much of a challenge, improving oneself and realizing what is needed is only a matter of minutes playing against other people: the ultimate key to effective combat is speed and good tactics together, not separately. In deathmatch that means killing more than anyone else, in coop it means killing enemies many times the number of your team so you'd better be good at it. In both scenarios the self-proclaimed smart soldier who plays the role of a bystander in a safe place may be the last to die but he has failed the objectives and others wish he'd get on with it and do something.

[sparks50 0]

As for the "sim freak cliches", there is no perfect sim, but you surely can get closer to one if you try. So don't hate on people with different interest than you.

[celery 8]

As for the "sim freak cliches", there is no perfect sim, but you surely can get closer to one if you try. So don't hate on people with different interest than you.

It's not me hating on them, it's the sim freaks seeking to remove every content from ArmA that they personally don't like, thus hating map makers such as myself. They want that nobody makes DM or CTF although nothing stops them from just ignoring such things. If you click on the "CTF Hexenkessel" link in my sig, you can see how simulator fans with different interests react to a pvp map being released.

[(FPC) Bacon 0]

There is nothing better than palying a CTF (or pvp) game and knowing that you have just killed somebody sitting at their PC knowing they are saying you F***er

(Don't blame the player blame the game)

[sparks50 0]

Ok Celery, just sounded like you were having a go at mil-sim fans

[The_Captain 0]

Deathmatches are the supreme way of actually getting good at fighting, and not just against human opponents but good at ArmA in general, in almost all its aspects from small arms to vehicles, individual tactics and the understanding of psychology in combat situations. That and they are a barrel load of fun as well because the waiting-fighting ratio is weighted for the latter.

I fully agree, Celery. My comment was more of a dig at why I think players *aren't* getting enough combat, not just me whining. Just being able to keep playing after you get slapped around by other players is enough to help people improve fast.

One of my favorite maps for some simple Armor/Air PvP is a simple deathmatch on Ramahdi... forget which, but it's just a variant of gunship deathmatch where you get either an armored vehicle with an AI driver (so you're actually able to fight by yourself), or a helicopter with only rockets/cannon.

I've had my best armored online battles in that map, and for crying out loud it was a teamless deathmatch!

Put a dozen players in about 1 square kilometer with access to high powered weapons and it's going to be fun, like that map is. All we need is a solid PvP map with a good player/combat density and a good waiting/fighting ratio... They're fun!

I think sometimes when people design their map/game mode for a high level concept (realism, high level strategy, an economy, role playing elements), they sometimes forget about the low level fun of the players, which is the most important thing â„¢. Nothing wrong with a good high level concept, but if it's not fun to play on a minute to minute basis, you're going to miss out on a lot of potential players.

[Stiletto 0]

To communicate, is key too the focus of firepower at the schwerpunk in game. Figure it out or die.

"professional"  LOLOLOLOL, pifft, "professional" players are what is wrong with online gaming, a bunch of X@%** forsure...

 PVP is for pu333ys, its where the cheats come from...

 Leagues have no baring on the life of the game except to ruin it.

The only real good PVP games are Quake4, UT original, and COD4.

Arma will never be a PVP type game, the skills are too hard for most PVP type jerkoffs. PVP=cheaters and or noobs... ARMA is a COOP game, the best COOP game there is right now.

 If you took all of the really good ARMA players out there, the ones who can use the interface, and mechanics in a fluid manner, you would be hard pressed to get 100 players... The real issue is there are way too many servers and not enough good players to fill more than five. So there will always be PVP types moaning about the game play,  i say go to BF2 and stay away.

 

Also the server should remove the score board, keeps the idiots from bragging.

yea...your an idiot! COD4? multi is as bad as Kiddie Strike. And BF2 is a puffed up arcade game. More communication is all you need. And who cheats against coop bots? Insurgency has better multi then COD4.

[Jackal- TEAM ELITE FORCES 0]

From my point of view, one way to your PvP nirvana Migel is to do as the others mentioned...find a good coop team you like. Once there, ask them if they organize clan vs clan events. That is surely a good way to :

A) Minimize casual gamers that do not use teamwork, whether it be chat messages or over TS.

B) Ensure organized TvT, PvP events where you will seldom be disappointed.

C) guarantee that there is a mature and helpful admin present that enforces the rules

I wanted to add that I enjoyed reading the forum posts and especially like the comments made about "player density" and battlefield area. The burden is on both the missionmaker and the players to develop those memorable gaming moments.

The missionmaker definitely has to ask himself serious questions prior to creating a mission such as:

What do i want the players to get out of this mission?

How can I force them into battle? Perhaps opposing objectives at the same location so that the forces eventully collide?

Have I used the element of time effectively to force all players into action?

Have I contrained the battlefield (i.e., instant death zones, random minefileds, etc)?

Should I reduce respawn to a finite amount per player or player side? This one is important because players often get lazy and don't wait for medic as previously posted because it is "faster" to kill yourself than waiting on your team mate medic to come get you. Exploiting maps like this adds to that disappointment I sometimes see. Example: For me Evo 5 where only the medic can fully revive players is better than Evo3 because player roles become that much more important, especially when you have a good team. The non-medics have to help cover the casualty from enemy fire so the medic can revive/heal him or pull him to safety. Having a friendly go down in the middle of a firefight and the rest of the team/teamleader having to inprovise a plan to get/heal him is one of the most impressive feats of teamwork in a game. why/ because it really forces the team to work together in an instant, or else you are one down and possibly more if it happens again and it is bound to lessen your team's effectiveness once you actually do get near the objective.

I guess i am partial to teamwork more than racking up kills because there is something intangible but very obvious and satisfying when good teamwork is present.

Kudos to the ArmA clans that promote such things.

[mattxr 9]

Sometimes ive joined into the most random publics servers and there working as a team.. using VON etc, you get the odd rambo but for the most part everyone is working together, even if they cant speak. Then on the other hand ive been in some servers and its a Rambo Free Fest.