AH64A

[Serclaes 0]

Good mornings,

as i am in good mood this morning i decided to post some pictures of my project. The topic gave it away its a AH64A, but don't get excited, i'm a beginner. This model is being done in order to learn to model and i have reached my personal learning limits. I just need an advice here and there and some more eyes looking on the model, or some more (experienced brains) looking at where i can spare some polys or optimize the mesh/flow.

So far i can say it was a lot of fun to model this, even if there was some frustration along with it. Especially because of bad reference and me not knowing anything more detailed about apaches. For example, if you look at this site there is an AH64A in a early version and in a late version, now which one was in commonly service 1985?

In the end, this model should have:

<ul>

[*]An accurate, detailed frame

[*]A high detail cockpit

[*]Realistic capabilites as far reasonably possible in arma

What i need:

<ul>

[*]references

[*]Modelling (and later texturing advice)

Now, the pics. The model has been made in blender. The aim now is to get the right form, then doing a high poly mesh, baking the normal to a low poly model. I've seen some issues with my cockpit this morning from the pics xnodunitx had posted. The nose is currently being redone completely (took it off from a Revell plastic model, but that wasnt so accurate...)

Critics and suggestions more than welcome!

[MehMan 0]

First off, get high resolution blueprints.

Like here

Looks okay right now.

[Serclaes 0]

Ah, excellent, that will help a lot! Those pixely other one are good for general shapes but these are way better. Thanks!

[xnodunitx 0]

Thats not a bad start for a beginner actually..I remember my first model,a humvee...it was actually rather accurate and could have made for a good model if I hadn't made it out of hundreds of seperate boxes..ah fun days..heheh, atleast you know about the closed mesh stuff   I must also say that I am relieved to see another AH-64 that is NOT a BIS remake.

The early AH-64A and late AH-64A aren't that different except for system ehancements, better engines, rotor blades and system and many other functions, otherwise on the outside they are identical.

I don't really know much about Blender, I worked in O2 back in OFP and then moved onto 3dsmax but I am more then willing to spot out some optimizing points and give you details on what should be tweaked for accuracy, this thing is pretty much my favorite helicopter and I have thousands of images and videos stored away just for it.

Before I start, here are a few supposed blender tutorial websites.

http://www.blender.org/education-help/video-tutorials/

http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/Blender-3d/1

http://www.blender.org/education-help/tutorials/

Right now for some reason my computer keeps restarting on my old 3dsmax AH-64A/D model, probably need to run a virus scan but I'll definately be keeping an eye on this thread and assist you.

What I would first recommend is removing the EFAB, although it is part of the frame itself, the curves of its structure make it appear seperate in a way that it is bolted in. So I would suggest disconnecting that from the body first.

You also do NOT need the extra sections in the wing..I would infact make the wing a bit more round while I'm at it. The pylons will line up with the wing once its done and that will save a nice amount of polies.

One thing I learned when working both the Alpha and Delta model if that if you want an accurate/highly accurate model you need to manage your polycounts on different mesh pieces carefully but at the same time not neglect the ones that will be most seen.

[digitalcenturion 20]

That looks quite good actually, I did a similar "learning experience" thing with my Havoc and i must say yours is actually looking quite pretty seeing as it is a quite early model. My early havoc was a mess, but even so I got it fairly nice looking. Just hang in there, look at a ton of pictures and you'll figure it out eventually. Can't say I have much modeling tips to give right now, perhaps when you get to texturing I can give more input. But nice work regardless!

PS: Take a gander at the AH-64 model made for DCS: Black Shark in the screenshot section at http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?lang=en

Insanely hi-poly but it might help you to see how they have made certain parts and stuff.

[xnodunitx 0]

Heheh, and I can't wait for them to release DCS:BS and hopefully the AH-64A will follow up not much later..

Although the DCS:BS AH-64A and D are very accurate they have One rather large inaccuracy, large because its always seen.

The M230 is too large, the gun is actually rather thin, it is the carriage that makes it look beefed up.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/4939/ah64a29of52kf4.jpg

But otherwise yeah I'd definately recommend using that as reference, I use it myself and have studied both models for incorrect parts, the M230 was the only bit.

[Casimir 0]

ive got to say that looks real sweet

i know this is your first model but are you planning on doing other or are you just doing a one off?

[Serclaes 0]

Thanks a lot for the assistance.

I've been looking into the pics from black shark. Especially to redo the wings. Tho i always have the problem with the version

Some have the chin up to the wings (version?), some have the big chins (D), some have small chins (A).

Quote[/b] ]i know this is your first model but are you planning on doing other or are you just doing a one off?

Hehe, let me finish this one first   But yeah, modelling is definately fun. I already have a Kiowa in mind. I don't know when the Kiowa/Apache Teaming began but since the Kiowa's were only upgraded 1985 to the D version i guess it was after that.

Yesterday evening/night i reworked the mesh according to the new blueprint stuff i got from MehMan. You can see from the position of the TADS how the front part was made shorter. I am satisfied with the result, some messy points apart, but the normals arent.  

Also i made the wings rounder and the glass is now bent towards the outside.

Btw, the face count is now 572x2 (because of the mirroring)

[xnodunitx 0]

The first thing I would do for starts is tweak the tail, it will need several verticle section but only a few hoirzontal, but now now you have the correct count.

The reason to this is that the tail has a few curves, on the starboard side the end of the tail curves to the port side so it underlaps the sensors on the end of the tail.

Something like (but not necessarily exact, my faulting on this was missing that the sensor also pokes out a bit on the port side)

Red lines indicate the front curve connecting down the tailboom and the green is the "port curve".

And here you can see the curve.

Here we see it again from the port side but at a different angle where we can easily see the curving point.

And the bottom of the curve from the starboard side.

If some pictures are not showing you may need to refresh, image shack is being a pain and apparently photobucket is not allowed.

[Serclaes 0]

No problem with the pics

I saved them locally to have them later. The problem i have now is that i still have the mirror modifier active, that means i can't do side specific changes. The plan now is to do the nose with TADS and PNVS (that little turning thingy on top of the TADS), the wheels and the wings as they still don't have the right form. I will optimise the mesh as much as i can before removing the mirror modifier and then proceed to the side specific things and the details.

However, the lighting error on the chin persists and i can't find the origin. The one above the cockpit is corrected.

[xnodunitx 0]

Hmm, well we are going to need more angles of the nose if that is your first plan.

Well in that case I need a closeup of your current TADS so I can decide what images to reference you to, the one thing I can say is that right now it looks like you used a simple cylinder.

It is a cylinder yes but it needs to smoothen out at the end, here's an example of mine and some real images.

Once you have that tweaked we can continue onto details of other parts around the TADS.

Don't worry about the lighting error too much..if you decide to follow along later we'll probably be making a far more optimized and more accurate EFAB.

[Serclaes 0]

Yes indeed, right now the TADS is only a more smoothed cylinder with an extruded part. I will adjust the shape. Thanks for the pic

I have one question though as it was never clear: are the left and right parts rotating up/down independently?

Currently the nose isnt more that a flat thing since i removed the part between TADS and PNVS because it was inaccurate. I haven't looked for some ref of the PNVS yet, but i could need some from above and from the side if you have some.

[xnodunitx 0]

I don't think the two parts turn seperately, the reason the covers appear spearate is so that the instruments can be checked and fixed without having to dismable the entire nose section.

It may also appear from certain angles that it could because the night sensor is far lower then the day, usually diagnol based angles, front and side appear different for some reason.

And I'll go ahead and make a small gallery of some of the best PNVS and TADS shots I have, if you see some you are curious about then send me a tell and I can get it to you in a much larger resolution and in better quality.

[xnodunitx 0]

Double post due to image limit in previous post.

Bah, looking at all of these pictures is making me want to redo mine.

[Serclaes 0]

Wow, you are awesome! Thanks a lot. I must be some kind of google dyslexic.

I can't wait to get home and build the nose.

[xnodunitx 0]

Nah, not all of them were found in google, and some don't exist on the web anymore.. (over a few years I'v been collecting thousands of images of this helicopter and her details..lost the videos though >.<.

Many of them I found on Flickr which is a site I highly recommend for a "secondary search", if you're looking for something that shows the general shape but not very closeup then Airliners.net would be the right one.

And if you're looking for a site dedicated to military equipment of all sorts which includes shots of all kinds then I highly recommend Primeportal.net.

Also if you want more references of anything just let me know, though I'll be posting it publicly so that anyone who has an interest in building this bird or tweaking theirs will know what is accurate and what is not.

[Specter 0]

now which one was in commonly service 1985?

according to globalsecurity.org the apache wasn't in service until 1986

and wikipedia states, that the ah64-a saw first combat in 1989

[NoRailgunner 0]

From globalsecurity.org

Quote[/b] ]As of November 1993, 807 Apaches were delivered to the Army.

As far as I know the Apache AH-64A entered service with the US Army in 1984.

The AH-64D Longbow Apache is a remanufactured and upgraded version of the AH-64A Apache attack helicopter. Boeing delivered them from 1997.

[xnodunitx 0]

Before you work on the nose I want to give you a bit of advice.

It may be best to infact remake your model using the blueprints from Skycorner and here is why, with their accuracy to the real thing you can make a more accurate and better litmodel, I'll show you an example of what I mean.

The tailboom is a bit that used to give me pains all the time due to its slightly complex shape, it is infact not fully round but transitions into a boxlike shape, thus a small challenge for starters.

I'll show you some examples of my model  to (hopefully) clarify things before getting further into this.

One of the reasons I wanted to show you this early on is because on my previous model I had a similar setup like yours, lines  mostly going around top and bottom, tailboom more simplistic... It was later that I found my ideas had bit me on the rear, lighting was havoc, on many angles it didn't look right, and I want to help you avoid that so later you won't have to bang your head on the desk.

What I did was used the AH-64A blueprints from Skycorner which I believe MehMan provided you with.  Make your cylinder from the end of the tailboom and then bring its end section up to the point at which you see the crease in the rivets (showing the next tail pieces joining).  Stop it there and then make another section up to the next crease.

Now go back to the first create and select all vertices and squish them in just a little bit, the second section is more oval in appearance.  

I'm not sure if Blender has chamfering ability but if it does what I recommend is making a box AFTER the entire tailboom, create a second section and then pull the second sections edge up to the top (use upper blueprint to align correctly).

After that disconnect the section and join the bottom vertices into one, then chamfer it, that will create the smooth edge on the top with the right shape.  After that select the bottom edge on the first box and chamfer it as well.. After that you need to adjust the front section to be in a more squarelike shape as seen above..

One thing I want to mention and this is very important, another reason your current model would have bad lighting errors and does on your EFAB is because the sections are not uniform, they have tons on the outside but none on the inside which throws off its uniformity, note how the lines come up into the frame and go straight through, this will keep the lighting correct.

One final bit for this already long post, after you have that set you can make your spine trailing through the tailboom (Which I suggest using a seperate model piece for until you are at the last step), start with a cylinder at the edge of the start of the tail.

Crush it to look more oval and then bring it to the first crease, stretch the end on the first crease to be a bit more circular, then continiue, as you go forward you'll wind up with a "side oval".    

Once you have the shape down make sure you create the sections so that it aligns with the tailboom, this helps the lighting greatly as well as later UV mapping.

I'm not sure if Blender has a boolean function but if it does then simply set your spine into the frame and boolean it onto the frame using a method that either A cuts the sections needed into the spine or B cuts the unseen sections away, after that simply join the vertices and you'll have a much better start.

[Serclaes 0]

Ok, i've been trying the last days to work out the tail. Evil bastard that thing is. I realised how wrong my old tail was. But thanks to xnodunitx i could correct it. Thanks a lot for the good pics!

Its not perfect right now but i did my best. I apologise for the lighting tho :

WIRE

The hard/smooth problem you can see on the tail comes because of the Auto smooth function in blender, which is set to 40° and hence does not smooth the other edges

[sdoc 0]

deleted, for being a stupid post.

[xnodunitx 0]

woops..double post (though the second post is what I meant to have said, I thought I edited the first prior to it.)

[xnodunitx 0]

Don't worry too much about the smoothening of the spine, its edges are sharpened or as far as 3dmaxish goes, a different shading property.

If blender isn't showing it properly I would suggest importing an experimental version of it into O2. Then select of the ending vertices that connect the spine to the tailboom and press U to sharpen them.

If a problem arises then worse comes to worse, disconnect the spine but keep it on the model so it has its own shading.

Also if you can just go ahead and disconnect the EFAB's, we'll get to those later in a more details and polysaving manner.

[Serclaes 0]

Well its just that Auto smooth thing. I'm just too lazy to manually smooth the model right now. I guess i'll have to do that anyways in O2

I'll smooth the connection a bit more.

The EFABS are the little wings right (I know EFAMS from Comanche Gold but not EFABS)? They are already disconnected from the fuselage

[xnodunitx 0]

Nope, EFABS (Extended Forward Avionics Bays) are the "cheeks" http://lpmpjogja.diknas.go.id/kc/a/apache/apache-helicopter-33.jpg what this guy has his hand on.