Side arms

[PitViper 0]

they could add pistols for crew and pilots, and as a secondary weapon to some specops, and maybe some officers but it shouldn't be able to hit anyone beyond 25 meters and it should take many shots to take him down!

[miss_cleo 0]

well for realisms sake i think that pistols should be included for machinegunners, officers and vehicle crew, while not practical for most combat situations you could find some use for them.. rifle out of ammo? cap a ruskie w/ your pistol and take his ak.(actually, w most games starting you w/ only 4 magazines i usually trade my M16 for the first ak i can)

pistols are a must for the special forces units in the game. a SOCOM would be nice.. and useful.

but if were talking realism the helicopter crews should get only pistols and the armoured crew should get M3 grease guns.

im not sure what russian crew gets... makarovs? stechkins? probably not ak74su, espescially in 1985

[Placebo 29]

I want sharpened entrenching spades dammit

[ExLaX 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Mar. 06 2002,02:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I want sharpened entrenching spades dammit  <span id='postcolor'>

Then you should play Day of Defeat (a halflife modification)

[Placebo 29]

Yup I do/have Dod2 that is.......

I was mostly joking about the sharpened spades, just I'm a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig fan of Sven Hassel novels and they tend to feature a fair bit in there

[GnySgt Hartman Sr DI 0]

Realism?

Now you may have a lot of posts here, but who sends troops into combat w/ no sidearm?

This is not realism, if the reload was a little faster, then maybe I can say for other reasons.

But this should be a factor not over looked in further updates.

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

I've been away for a while and I've only just read this thread...I have alot to say, so bare with me. I'll start from the start of the thread and direct comments at individuals as they came up.

Chainfist (initial post) - There are fists in this game, ever heard fo 'Strokefist' and 'Strokegun'?

MadMike (reply) - the word you are striving for is 'usefulness' not 'realism'.

_Assulter_ - actually I've never been in that situation were I have run out of ammo. Be conservative and only shot when you know you will kill.

Marcu_crassus - good point, it is a good idea to reduce the size of the silhouette.

MadMike (again) - Actually more often than not the SAS use concelled MP5Ks and MP5KPDWs in pivoted brace holsters and adapted suit cases when bodyguarding.

Chainfist (again) - I agree, it is annoying how you can't drop a spent launcher.

LBGS_Steward - You are right, the standard pistol in use by the US army up untill 1991 was the Colt 1911A1.

Garritos - I was wondering if anyone would notice that a new animation would be needed.

LesJones - It isn't hard to kill with a knife...just hard to kill with a knife and get away with it

PitViper - Why would you give a pistol to a Spec Op? They have silenced SMGs with loads on ammo.

Miss Cleo - Tankers shouldn't have pistols, they have SMGs. SMGs were designed with tankers in mind. You asked about a Russian pistol, then you want either a Tokarev or a Makarov, the Stechkin wasn't used by an offfical armed force after 1975. I also don't understand why the Russians wouldn't carry a AKSU-74 before 1985...they were in production since 1975.

In my opinion pistols should be added along with a new animation and new slot in the load-out screen. They would be used by officers, pilots and snipers, possably with a silenced option...not sure though. I'm thinking a 1911A1 for the yanks and a Makarov for the ruskies.

I'm done...Jubs

[Frag Haus Capt Morgan 0]

Okay the "Realism" thing.  

One side arms are a fact of life and so our knives. What are you going to do in real combat when you run out of ammo. Go excuse me I have to get more ammo stay here. I will be right back. In Vietnam there is stories of troops useing there etools to kill soldier in hand to hand combat.

Oh and if you can't get right up on enemy then their is something worng. I have in many occassions walked right upbehind an enemy in this game and gotten right on top of them in multiplayer.  Then thought how nice it would be to but stroke, pistol whip, knife, strangle and other things to this player. Then i just set a satchel on the camping noob and walk away then when i get a little distance run.  If I do not have a satchel then just pop around in his but before shooting him in the head.

But yes that would be some cool Stuff to add to the game.

[Commander 598 0]

Wanna see realism?

Use a knife and you'll probably end up like that guy in Proof of Life.

He got shot.

In Vietnam hand to hand was esential because of how close the enemy could get to you. Like in one of the campaign missions in which me and 3 others ran into a Russian commando in the woods not 10 feet from us.

If you run out of ammo I can guarantee there will be somebody on either side dead with enough ammo on him.

[AntiPasta 0]

well maybe if the OICW would be added to OFP we have a sidearm... I heard the receiver & grip could actually be used as a pistol, without the barrel, grenade launcher, etc.

I think the stopping power ain't that bad, especially on the higher calibers. If you get a .45ACP in your chest you'll still be heavily wounded

And why not add the ability to have 2 guns, one in each hand? Not that it would be very useful but it would still be cool, and if it's possible IRL why not include it? I heard the scouts in Nam actually had 2 1911s.

[Guest]

Pistols would be a nice option only for pilots (remove the dumb XM-177) and officers.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AntiPasta @ Mar. 11 2002,09:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And why not add the ability to have 2 guns, one in each hand? Not that it would be very useful but it would still be cool, and if it's possible IRL why not include it? I heard the scouts in Nam actually had 2 1911s.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL! Akimbo pistols?! LOLOL!!! Now that would be as unrealistic as hell lmao!

[AntiPasta 0]

well why not? IF Bis would add pistols, you could as well take two of them, as you can fire almost any handgun with one hand, I suppose (well maybe the Desert Eagle or the Super Redhawk being an exception)

[madmike 0]

Ha,LOL have you ever seen a soldier walking around with 2 pistols? Play CS or max payne if you want that

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

Akimbo is perfectly possible. It is quite easy with light hand guns no larger than say a Five-seveN, but you'll never be able to reload with a gun in each hand...:D

Jubs

[Guest]

Handguns for officers and pilots/specops/tank crews would be nice but IMO normal soldiers shouldn't carry them. Akimbo would be stupid and utterly useless.

[PFC_Mike 2]

Even if you've got all the primary ammo in the world, it takes a while to reaload. If I'm 1-10 m away from Charlie, I'd prefer to be able to grab my m1911 and blow him away. Pistols are very useful for things like that. And as for damage, a chest/head shot with .44 and above will in all likelyhood be fatal. I don't know about you, but to me the MP5 seems weak. I'd rather have a .45 for non-stealth close range.

I think the real reason BIS didn't include them is that it would have been a pain to add and test them, particularily if you have deadlines to meet. Who knows, maybe in 1.50 they'll add them, along with the abilty to surrender and take prsioners.

[ran 0]

lol , and once you've emptied your handgun mag ??

[madmike 0]

NO the reason they didnt add them is because of the realism. Also it wouldnt be worth it to make new animations for a handgun so they gave pilots the XM (?) and the russians the

Also in the campiagn the only time I got close to the ememy was on that mission that I had to get into gubas base and steal scud lanch site notes. Even then a MP5 did the job much better becuase its silenced.

ALso you lot keep saying officers carry handguns but that was in ww1 and ww2. officers in the british army certainly dont have them(talking of infantry, not armoured or air ) and most western amries have similar OPs so I doubt the US officers would carry them. just extra wieght and useless at typical engagement ranges

[Guest]

Only one reason I'd want to carry a pistol into a battle field - Primary weapon jams.

As OFP doesn't model weapon jams I dont think pistols are really needed

I certainly dont agree that changing the mag in your rifle is slower than drawing a pistol out, cocking and firing it.

[LordZach 0]

i'd be for pistols for officers or pilots/crew. i don't know about you guys but i've never seen a pilot jam an experimental version of the m4 (?) into the cockpit of his/her A-10.

someone could easily make pistols, but they would look lame because of the animations.

personally, i think it would be a lot more fun if i got shot down to have to try to evade & survive than pull out my automatic weapon with 120 rounds of ammo and 6 frag grenades and start popping reds left and right.

[miss_cleo 0]

the realism argument seems rather pointless in this case.. pistols are realistic because A. they exist, B. armed forces issue them to some of their members.

i will agree that their utility in OFP is questionable, but they have a place.

the xm177 was only really issued to special forces units, it was not issued to pilots or armored crew. armored crew was issued w/ pistols (dont believe me? ill send you a picture of a US issue sholder holster for armored crew) and M3 submachine guns.

as far as soviet equipment goes, im not sure. i have seen pictures of soviet crew w/ pistols. i still doubt that soviet crew would have been issued the AK74SU in 1985.. some soviet units had not even been issued the AK74 at that time. the ak74su strikes me as more of a special purpose weapon maybe for paratroopers or spetznaz. if the US is just now phasing out issue of a WWII vintage submachine gun, i doubt that the soviets were passing out brand new weapons to BMP drivers in 1985. plus the interior of a soviet tank is cramped beyond what most westerners would believe, i dont know if theres enough room.

like i said, im not sure on the soviet side of things.. any russians w first hand expierience want to chime in?

btw i dont think that OFP should have a feature for weilding double pistols. my greatgrandfather did say that his prefered armament for trench combat in WWI was 2 1911s though....

[RichardV5.2 0]

Civ's could use an hand gun it would be cool if ya made a misson were you have to go in to town and civ comes up to you and poles out a hand gun takes a shot at you. and then run and hide around town with other good civ's and you got to find him.

[The Jub-Jub Bird 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miss_Cleo @ Mar. 11 2002,23:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the realism argument seems rather pointless in this case.. pistols are realistic because A. they exist, B. armed forces issue them to some of their members.

i will agree that their utility in OFP is questionable, but they have a place.

the xm177 was only really issued to special forces units, it was not issued to pilots or armored crew. armored crew was issued w/ pistols (dont believe me? ill send you a picture of a US issue sholder holster for armored crew) and M3 submachine guns.

as far as soviet equipment goes, im not sure. i have seen pictures of soviet crew w/ pistols. i still doubt that soviet crew would have been issued the AK74SU in 1985.. some soviet units had not even been issued the AK74 at that time. the ak74su strikes me as more of a special purpose weapon maybe for paratroopers or spetznaz. if the US is just now phasing out issue of a WWII vintage submachine gun, i doubt that the soviets were passing out brand new weapons to BMP drivers in 1985. plus the interior of a soviet tank is cramped beyond what most westerners would believe, i dont know if theres enough room.

like i said, im not sure on the soviet side of things.. any russians w first hand expierience want to chime in?

btw i dont think that OFP should have a feature for weilding double pistols. my greatgrandfather did say that his prefered armament for trench combat in WWI was 2 1911s though....<span id='postcolor'>

I accept what you are saying about tankers having pistols instead of SMGs, but weren't SMGs initially designed with tankers in mind?

I don't see why the AKSU-74 couldn't have been carried by Russian tankers in 1985...it was in mass production from 1975. Although I do agree with the space issue on the Russian tanks poit of view.

Jubs

[XtremeX19 0]

well, since i only read the first page, im just gonna say this (though it prob been said already):

using the US military as an example, all (if not all then most) officers carry a side arm, usually a HK USP (.40) or a berratta 9mm (dont remember model name).

now i am off to go hide in the shadows where i belong