MK19 Recoile

[ravendk 25]

Hia all.

s a soldier i fired off a few 40 mm rounds from a M203.. it kicks yes, but not so hard that i would fall on my ass..

So im wondering why the standard MK19 on a HMMWV or stryker gives such a big kick..

A little reseach on the grenades.

Pic from FAS Military Analysis Network

MK19 Grenade

M203 Grenade

Im no rocket scientist.. But to me the grenadecartridge are the same size only the propellint are diffrent, and frankly a HMMVW is 4.1 - 4.2 ton and a stryker is 16.47 - 18.77 ton and they bounse arround like crazy when you fire the MK19 from it.

Sooo the small change in the cartidge add so much recoil that it can move several tons? .. Then why dont the MK19 on a tripod get pushed away? (BIS??)

well ...

Real life MK19's

just a couple of examples

M430 HEDP (high-explosive, dual-purpose) as used in a MK19

There is many more on youtube.. so they cant all be fake

So ppl out there, pleas poste your own videos of MK19 shooting so BIS can get good info on how the MK19 and for that matter the AGS30 recoile should be

@ BIS I mean no offence to you guys, so many weapons and stuff, its a jungle. So i understand that some things aint getting right thats why we offer oure help with info

[Shadow NX 1]

Probably the wrong place but i add my 2 cents.

Yeah this recoil on vehicles is crazy, we played soem MP last night and i was not sure if i should laugh or cry when my gunner fired the Grenadelauncher from the Hummer and with each shot we started to turn more and more.

But i guess that is caused by the vehicles partly odd physics, once drove a tank over a stone,,,jump up... endless rotating on its turret like some breakdancer....

Fun thing is a AI tank followed and ended up in the same way, pretty nice b-boy battle that they done there.

[ManDay 0]

Recoil: Zero

Another Video. I think it fits the thread.

[ravendk 25]

Recoil: Zero

Another Video. I think it fits the thread.

heh

...well he is clearly overacting, you can see the recoil kick in his shoulder 1 sec after he falls ..

M203 Grenade Launcher 1

M203 Grenade Launcher 2

Video 2 clearly shows the recoil, the shooter is a rookie with no help holding him back.

But good joke tho..

[MehMan 0]

This has been reported a long time ago. And reported again. And again. I think I've seen at least four to five reports, across a year. And no fix.

[sphoenix 11]

The grenades may be of the same caliber, they are separated for one good reason.

If you try to shoot an Mk19 grenade with a M203, it'll work - however you'll break your shoulder.

[ravendk 25]

The grenades may be of the same caliber, they are separated for one good reason.

If you try to shoot an Mk19 grenade with a M203, it'll work - however you'll break your shoulder.

Thats true. I know. But thats not the point is that the recoil isnt enough to move a vehicle.

The Mk19 grenade got a bigger range yes. But theres no way it gives a recoil that moves a hummer or a stryker.

[ManDay 0]

Can you please reference a movie in which I can see how a vehicle is shaken like that? (In ArmA) Can't remember having experienced something similar.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Can you please reference a movie in which I can see how a vehicle is shaken like that? (In ArmA) Can't remember having experienced something similar.

In the editor, just load up a HMMWV with the belt-fed

mortar mounted. When it's fired it recoils like a 12 pounder

culverin, and gradually pushes the vehicle backwards!  

If wasn't bad enough that static guns don't recoil even a

millimetre they go and do this silliness!  

[MehMan 0]

That's because every static weapon doesn't have recoil. It's just GAH! FFS! Vehicle mounted weapons either shake up the whole vehicle or stay mobile. For crying out loud! Since OFP till now this hasn't been changed? Instead bringing in a major disadvantage? This is one of my biggest gripes with this game and the patches that don't fix this, neither implement proper vehicle mounted recoil.

Here's an example:

Mk 19 moving the vehicle

[wld427 1705]

In combat i have fred a real Mk-19 on a real Humvee at a real target......it kicks like hell!!. A Mark on a tripod requires sandbags and everything most soldier can put in the back of it ( hold down and right) to actially hit anything. When i was a private (2003) ( as a driver in an AT Platoon) my gunner fired over the side of the vehicle and it damn near made the truck jump a lane.

The reality is or what they teach you in armorer school is if you fired a Mk19 HEDP from an M203 barrel it would burst.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

That's because every static weapon doesn't have recoil. It's just GAH! FFS! Vehicle mounted weapons either shake up the whole vehicle or stay mobile...

Do you mean "none of the static weapons in the game have

any recoil - although all should have at least some"?

BIS-lads please do something about this. It is stopping us

enthusiasts from modding cool stuff like Vickers Emma-Gees,

L1A1 HMGs and SF GPMGs. They'll all really suck hard in the

game without a realistic recoil on their tripods.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

...my gunner fired over the side of the vehicle and it damn near made the truck jump a lane...

So do you reckon the way it's represented in the game is more or less okay, then?

[max power 21]

I think I remember someone saying something about the behaviour of the grenade machineguns has to do with the fact that they inherit the cannon class or something.

[DaSquade 0]

No, i don't have any military background nor i have ever seen an MK19 (vehicle mounted) firing...

But some YouTube movies or any other movies (non-hollywood) show me cleary the vehicle itself doesn't get effected by the MK19's recoil. Afaik the mounts itself already obsorve most of the force of the wepaons recoil. Somehow i smell bs on your story wld427. Feel free to backfire me if your story is correct, but please proof it in some way. No hard feeling but sofar i haven't found any proof of any vehicle who 'moves' due to recoil.

RL vs Gameplay: Well we all know recoil has and still is messing up with any vehicle witch has a 'grenade' launcher mounted. Afaik this is core coded and can't be altered. Correct me if wrong, otherwise i suppose someone (no cfg talent here) should make an low recoil replacement cfg...Since i have never found one..has it is up to BIS to fix this.

I know, lots things 'still' to fix, but this on is really a gameplay party poper imho. Personally the MK19 is my most favorite vehicle mounted weapon. I consider it as a mobile artillery support versus enemy inf. and soft vehicles. It is simply priceless if you can use it from behind cover and have coms to adjust your firings during an MP game.

-> But this often gets messed up by the recoil. After several bursts you are forced to reposition your vehicle .

Please fix...

[frederf 0]

Let's start with facts:

1. The M203 is a low-velocity 40mm grenade and the MK19 is a high-velocity 40mm grenade. The rounds are not cross compatible. The MK19 rounds are physically longer while the M203 rounds do not have enough propellant to physically cycle the MK19 MOD3.

There exists shoulder-fired high-velocity 40mm launchers and they really pack a kick.

2. The BIS Stykers' and HMMWVs' MK19s use simulation="shotShell"; in their configs which is what gives it its ridiculous recoil. Guess what else uses simulation="shotShell"; ? That's right, the main 120mm cannon on the M1A1 Abrams.

3. It is really easy to modify the MK19 to use simulation="shotbullet"; or whatever rifles use. I've done this and put them on the Strykers in an AddOn and the recoil problem is gone.

[DaSquade 0]

Quote[/b] ]3. It is really easy to modify the MK19 to use simulation="shotbullet"; or whatever rifles use. I've done this and put them on the Strykers in an AddOn and the recoil problem is gone.

..like said, cfg noob here...

But nice to hear it is 'that' simple. Would it be simple aswell to have an cfg replacement so we all can enjoy no-recoil effected vehicles? Would be very appreciated if you or someone could come up with one...

Again, cfg noob here and thought it wasn't possible. But after checking it in XXX2 (xxx as it is still forbidden to mention it ), their mk19 vehicles don't respond to the recoil. The mk19 itself simulats the recoil on the mount only .

Make one wonder why this 'simple' cfg tweak still hasn't made it in a beta. One can only hope...

[7 0]

3. It is really easy to modify the MK19 to use simulation="shotbullet"; or whatever rifles use. I've done this and put them on the Strykers in an AddOn and the recoil problem is gone.

does the projectile behave different and will it still be visible?

[sakura_chan 9]

this does work, however it wrecks the gun mounted grenade launchers like the m203. Instead of firing as a grenade, it is shot out of the rifle barrel and ricochets on impact instead of exploding. The problem is that the vehicle mounted launchers and the gun launchers use the exact same ammo (which isn't true in real life), so what needs to be done is to make separate ammo for them.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

class CfgAmmo

{

class G_30mm_HE;

class G_30mm_HE_FIX: G_30mm_HE

{

simulation = "shotbullet";

tracerColor[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};

tracerColorR[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};

deflecting = 5;

};

class G_40mm_HE;

class G_40mm_HE_FIX: G_40mm_HE

{

simulation = "shotbullet";

tracerColor[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};

tracerColorR[] = {0, 0, 0, 0};

deflecting = 5;

};

};

class cfgMagazines

{

class VehicleMagazine;

class 29Rnd_30mm_AGS30: VehicleMagazine

{

ammo = "G_30mm_HE_FIX";

};

class 48Rnd_40mm_MK19: VehicleMagazine

{

ammo = "G_40mm_HE_FIX";

};

};

this makes a new class of grenade for the vehicles, so the gun mounted launchers are unaffected.

[frederf 0]

This is A PORTION OF my config for my new Strykers. I narrowed it down to just the part that affects the weapon. To utilize it you have to mod the vehicle to have the new weapon.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> class 4IB_Stryker_ICV_M2 : 4IB_StrykerBase {

scope = public;

accuracy = 1000; // accuracy needed to recognize type of this target

displayName = $STR_DN_STRYKER_M2;

class Damage {

tex[] = {};

mat[] = {"ca\weapons\data\m2.rvmat", "ca\weapons\data\m2.rvmat", "ca\weapons\data\m2_destruct.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_destruct.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body1.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body1.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body1_destruct.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body2.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body2.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body2_destruct.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_alfa.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_alfa.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_alfa_destruct.rvmat"};

};

class Turrets : Turrets {

class MainTurret : MainTurret {

weapons[] = {4IB_M2};

magazines[] = {"200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2"};

};

};

};

class 4IB_Stryker_ICV_MK19 : 4IB_StrykerBase {

scope = public;

accuracy = 1000; // accuracy needed to recognize type of this target

model = "\ca\wheeled\stryker_mk19";

picture = "\Ca\wheeled\data\ico\stryker_mk19_CA.paa";

Icon = "\Ca\wheeled\data\map_ico\icomap_Stryker_mk_CA.paa";

mapSize = 10;

displayName = $STR_DN_STRYKER_MK19;

class Damage {

tex[] = {};

mat[] = {"ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_destruct.rvmat", "ca\weapons\data\mk19.rvmat", "ca\weapons\data\mk19.rvmat", "ca\weapons\data\mk19_destruct.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body1.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body1.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body1_destruct.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body2.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body2.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_icv_body2_destruct.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_alfa.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_alfa.rvmat", "ca\wheeled\data\detailmapy\stryker_alfa_destruct.rvmat"};

};

class Turrets : Turrets {

class MainTurret : MainTurret {

gunnerOpticsColor[] = {0.8, 0, 0, 1};

weapons[] = {4IB_MK19};

soundServo[] = {"\ca\wheeled\Data\Sound\servo3", 0.017783, 1.0};

magazines[] = {"48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil"};

gunnerOpticsModel = "\4IB_Vehicles\optika_stryker_MK19";

class ViewGunner : ViewGunner {

gunnerOpticsColor[] = {0.8, 0, 0, 1};

minAngleY = -140;

maxAngleY = 140;

initFov = 0.64;

minFov = 0.64;

maxFov = 0.64;

};

};

};

};

class CfgAmmo {

class G_40mm_HE; // External class reference

class G_40mm_HE_NoRecoil : G_40mm_HE {

simulation = "shotBullet";

};

};

class CfgMagazines {

class 100Rnd_127x99_M2; // External class reference

class 200Rnd_127x99_M2 : 100Rnd_127x99_M2 {

count = 200;

};

class 48Rnd_40mm_MK19; // External class reference

class 48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil : 48Rnd_40mm_MK19 {

ammo = "G_40mm_HE_NoRecoil";

};

};

class CfgWeapons {

class M2; // External class reference

class 4IB_M2 : M2 {

magazines[] = {"100Rnd_127x99_M2", "200Rnd_127x99_M2"};

};

class MK19; // External class reference

class 4IB_MK19 : MK19 {

magazines[] = {"48Rnd_40mm_MK19", "48Rnd_40mm_MK19_NoRecoil"};

};

};

[flashburn 0]

The mk19 when mounted on a hmmwv has next to no discernable effect on the vehicle when firing.... Think about it, the mk19 is a direct blowback weapon, that is its recoil system consists of two really big springs and not much else. The only thing you really have to worry about when firing it is that the casings eject downward, so if your not wearing an IBA with the crotch bit attached you may get a hot case smacking into your sensitive bits. Ask me how I know.

[Xenios 0]

I've written about this before, but I'll say it again: The whole point of the Mk 19 is that it has relatively low recoil and produces hardly any smoke, allowing it to be used where an autocannon would be impractical or impossible. I don't understand why this simple fix hasn't been done a long time ago.

The Mk 19's ammo type is listed ingame as the same 40mm HE grenades used by the M203. It is not, of course. The Mk 19 uses a longer 40mm grenade (40x53mm HEDP rather than the M203's 40x46mm HE), and it is high explosive dual purpose, meaning it has a shaped charge which can penetrate 50mm of armor. That's more than enough to penetrate any IFV. When it hits directly, the Mk 19 should be as dangerous as a 30mm autocannon to light armor. The secondary blast damage is probably comparable to the M203 and doesn't need to change.

Obviously, the simple fix is that BIS needs to make a new, separate ammo type for 40mm HEDP; this ammo would do more direct hit damage and would have little or no recoil and smoke. It would be easy for any modder to do, but BIS should make it standard in the next patch.

The disadvantages of the Mk 19--high dispersion, shorter range and slower velocity compared to an autocannon--are already present in the current model. I don't know about the AGS 30's ammo, but I'm sure it also has low recoil and produces little smoke.

[frederf 0]

In my modification the shot is visible only in NVGs I think. It doesn't seem to affect the trajectory at all.

Are you saying that the MK19 ammo is coded with the same muzzle velocity as the M203 ammo? Obviously that would be wrong.

[max power 21]

With less recoil you could also increase the rate of fire to realistic levels too!

[ManDay 0]

Talking about gs, this is what we use in Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_GMG

(340 rpm baby, 340 rpm! )