Modelling with solidworks?

[tylerdurden 0]

Looks like I hit sore place in game modelling...

Ok, I know, if we have tool, which is intended for making model for specific game, it is maybe mostly way without problems.

I will not argue anything, because I don't really know, but, I like to know and that's why I ask you people one thing:

If I make model with 3 particular methods, how O2's produced .P3D file differs between these methods?

-I will make some model in Oxygen 2 and save it in .P3D

-I will make exactly the same model with same measures in 3DS MAX, save it in .3DS, import it in Oxygen 2 and save it in .P3D

-I will make exactly the same model with same measures in SolidWorks, save it in .sldprt, convert it using for example Right Hemisphere's Deep Exploration to .3DS, import it in Oxygen 2 and save it in .P3D

If anyone have answers, please answer and argue what happens and why.

[nephilim 0]

look at it that way

in the end it doesnt matter what program you use to create your models.

some are better for one certain field than the others.

some have nicer and more logical gui´s than others.

some might appeal to you far more than other.

try some progs and settle down with it.

so why creating the same model 3 times in different progs??

anyway find what suits you best

@cl10k

alrighty guy... for my pace i definatly will not switch to any cad program. i tried them i dont really like them much cause theyre only restrained to architectural and industrial things.

period. if you like it ok.. thats your deal.

fact is theyre not the most ideal tool to create game models with..

[cl10k 0]

i was not refering to you neph. I know by now that you're a pro and know everything about any topic...

[nephilim 0]

sarcasm?....

[baddo 0]

Catia is wonderful.

Don't talk about AutoCAD

With CAD you usually create something new.

With "the other programs" you usually try to copy something which someone made in a CAD program. Car, airplane, helicopter and so on. Yeah, humans were not made in CAD programs I suppose so those are different.

So there is a major difference. CAD modelling is usually not a reverse-type process so it is not primarily designed to be used for that kind of work.

But the intuitivity and efficiency of creating 3D models in CAD like Catia is, I dare to say, much better than what you can get with "the other tools". Especially when you want to use parameters, constraints, dimensions, assemblies, oh yes when you get what those really mean in 3D modelling you are going to have an "a-ha!" experience... For example for modelling different size apartment blocks, you could have one base model and use parameters to drive that model into becoming many variations. The trick in Catia for example is, that this is made relatively very easy to do, and I don't see that in "the other programs". You could for example have an excel sheet for the parameters, and give that sheet to Catia and Catia would then spit out all the 1000 different buildings for you. Edit: then you would take them to O2 via whatever route and have fun creating lods and texturing etc...

[nephilim 0]

Quote[/b] ]With "the other programs" you usually try to copy something which someone made in a CAD program. Car, airplane, helicopter and so on. Yeah, humans were not made in CAD programs I suppose so those are different.

so you basically mean that anything that isnt done with cad/catia is a rip off?...

right.......

Quote[/b] ]The trick in Catia for example is, that this is made relatively very easy to do, and I don't see that in "the other programs". You could for example have an excel sheet for the parameters, and give that sheet to Catia and Catia would then spit out all the 1000 different buildings for you

gee.. nearly every high end 3d app is cabable of such things..

ever heard of instancing? morph targets?.

ok so you have 1000 different buildings.

do you have control over each one? parameter wise?

im honest i havent tried catia and ive got nothing against it or other CAD apps..

but some people (app. fashists as i call them ) seem are very prejudiced about the software they use.. (woot?? maya?? try silo its the sh!t anything else is blasphemy)

[baddo 0]

Quote[/b] ]With "the other programs" you usually try to copy something which someone made in a CAD program. Car, airplane, helicopter and so on. Yeah, humans were not made in CAD programs I suppose so those are different.

so you basically mean that anything that isnt done with cad/catia is a rip off?...

right.......

Quote[/b] ]The trick in Catia for example is, that this is made relatively very easy to do, and I don't see that in "the other programs". You could for example have an excel sheet for the parameters, and give that sheet to Catia and Catia would then spit out all the 1000 different buildings for you

gee.. nearly every high end 3d app is cabable of such things..

ever heard of instancing? morph targets?.

ok so you have 1000 different buildings.

do you have control over each one? parameter wise?

im honest i havent tried catia and ive got nothing against it or other CAD apps..

but some people (app. fashists as i call them ) seem are very prejudiced about the software they use.. (woot?? maya?? try silo its the sh!t anything else is blasphemy)

Do not put words into my mouth please. I'm going to eat sandwiches in a minute and those words just don't taste as good. If you model a car like a real Hummer, and not a fictitious one, then you are indeed copying something someone else designed in a CAD program. Of course you can create new in your tools too... I wasn't saying you couldn't.

nephilim, yes there are obvious differences between "those other programs" and "CAD programs" I'm not even trying to deny that there are no bad points in using a CAD program for game modelling. It just is plain wrong to rule them out completely, as you did in this thread. We just bring alternative knowledge and you can either take it or leave it but it shouldn't be something to argue about.

Roll your eyes all you want nephilim  I'm actually liking you now, it's always you who pop up to roll eyes and somehow it feels nice. Thanks! I feel happy now and it is only you nephilim who made me feel like that today.

[cl10k 0]

thank you baddo for your words - i see you are as impressed by catia's features as i am!

i wouldn't call myself an "app. fashists" but as i haven't tried all applications available i can only speak about the ones i've actually used.

really no offend here neph, but i tried instancing and parametric modelling in maya but you simply can't compare it to the features a pro CAD application offers.

I have to agree with baddo about constructing something new. A normal 3D app. is excellent for being creative or making organic shapes, but when it comes to industrial like, prezise design of p.e. planes, cars, etc... nothing can beat a pro app. like catia, which was made by dassault for the alpha-jet. I saw it running at Daimler, Audi, Porsche, and i know that especially the aviation industry use it - and there is a reason they do so...

but back on topic:

so as long as you have an effizient way of exporting your models

into max/o2 or whatever there is nothing to say against modelling with solid, catia and other comparable programs.

just a last thing: trying to (round-)bevel a complex shape in maya or modo was a real! nightmare and now try the same in a CAD app...

[tylerdurden 0]

I never have used Catia, but I have undertood it is very similar to Solidworks. Draw a 2D sketch, extrude, etc. Actually Catia is also made by Dassault systemes, like SolidWork.

I think modelling buildings, vehicles, weapons and other geometric things, 3D-CAD is best way.

I they model real-life planes, weapons and buildings with Solidwork or Catia, why it is bad modelling them for game?

I agree, CAD is not tool for modeling any organic models.

[cl10k 0]

actually today solid became the smaller brother of catia (which doesn't mean that it's not as good - just limited in certain "non modelling" areas)

the problem is that catia/solid uses nurbs-like surfaces, while game engines use polygon models. not every converter is capable of "translating" these nurbs-surfaces in good/efficient poly models.

but i remember that somebody here in the forums said that max is quite good at converting...

[rundll.exe 12]

As a big "Fan" of solidWorks (I have to use it for my study quite often) Im happy to hear this is actually possible.

I think its great for modeling buildings etc where not much curved surfaces are present.

And you were right: after using SW for modeling as a mechanical engineer, 3ds modeling is a comlete disaster...

(I tried one tutorial and never touched it again)

Now I come to it: Why arent most 3d modeling like 3ds and maya as simple as solidworks/catia etc. in modeling simple geometries....

btw It comes to mind that someone tried to make buildings for OFP in Google Sketchup and it really worked

[nephilim 0]

how old is catia?

max and maya are usually just getting stuffed with new stuff instead of being generally overhauled.

hence theyre sometimes bitchy to understand.

newer tools eg silo or modo are newer and due that

codersa nd designers can make innovations so these programs are userfriendly.

anyway once you get the spin in a 3d its ok.

i use 3dsmax at work, i dont like it to behonest but it gets the job done.

keep in mind that CAD programs are only made for visualisations.

no fancy renderings, animation etc etc.

hence theyre specified for only a certain field unlike MAX maya, or blender (bah!

[dm 9]

Quote[/b] ]With "the other programs" you usually try to copy something which someone made in a CAD program. Car, airplane, helicopter and so on. Yeah, humans were not made in CAD programs I suppose so those are different.

so you basically mean that anything that isnt done with cad/catia is a rip off?...

right.......

Do not put words into my mouth please. I'm going to eat sandwiches in a minute and those words just don't taste as good. If you model a car like a real Hummer, and not a fictitious one, then you are indeed copying something someone else designed in a CAD program. Of course you can create new in your tools too... I wasn't saying you couldn't.

I think it would be important to make the distinction here that Baddo is talking about people using CAD to design new REAL WORLD objects, while those of us that create content for games are "copying" (recreating) those real world designs, which may (or may not) have already been created in a CAD app.

The same can not be said, however, about sci-fi/fantasty content, and anything designed before, say 1970 (ish, as a REALLY rough date for when CAD started "taking over")

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

how old is catia?

max and maya are usually just getting stuffed with new stuff instead of being generally overhauled.

hence theyre sometimes bitchy to understand.

newer tools eg silo or modo are newer and due that

codersa nd designers can make innovations so these programs are userfriendly.

anyway once you get the spin in a 3d its ok.

i use 3dsmax at work, i dont like it to behonest but it gets the job done.

keep in mind that CAD programs are only made for visualisations.

no fancy renderings, animation etc etc.

hence theyre specified for only a certain field unlike MAX maya, or blender (bah!

CATIA has been around for ages in industry.  I was using it in '98 and it was old then.  But it really doesnt lend itself to low poly modelling for games.  Trust me i've tried.  

But CATIA can very easily be used for rendering and very detailed and complex animation and kinematic sequences.  Infact some of its features make Max/Modo/Maya look positively cartoonish.  But for ~GBP5000 - GBP35,000 a licence thats no surprise.  Its not a 2D tool that you seem to think CAD packages are.  Most modern aircraft are designed using it or its rival CADDS5.  It really is a a true 3D package that many of the "cheaper" packages are trying very hard to emulate.

AutoCAD and Inventor especially are catching up with 3DS very quickly.  Since Autodesk bought Maya alot of 3DS and Maya's features are creeping into the latest builds of AutoCAD and Inventor.

[nephilim 0]

never heard of catia :P

but well i never was that much interested in CAD programs anyway.

theyre somewhat way to specific for me..

[Scrub 0]

Yeah, Solidworks is a mainstream product, and a tad limited compaired to the likes of UG, Pro-E, Catia and such (but $60K is a bit steep). The real differences between games modeling apps and the ones for engineering, are the focus on accuracy - 3DS and its like are great at soft body 'organic' type modeling. And there is simply a lack of organic training and understanding with the engineering apps. They can do it as well (and have done so on many an aircraft), just different is all. But Nephs' got the right of it, Tyler Durden, just try and buy the one you like. (Nephilim, you recognise your own comments and slightly App Facist ? lol)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year all.

[blackjack-VS- 0]

Tylerdurden

With the mechanical engineer context in mind, i loved to use solidworks at college, and its really weird to compare slw,cad,catia to max,xsi,modo,maya or other cg application...

Their market is so distinct that its quiet obvious to me their application fields... cad softwares really aren't supposed to be used for gaming, as the same goes for max to be used as a rigid cad tool. i see this like killing a bee with a grenade... you kill it, but with a big mess around the bee!

My 1st project with solidworks was a complete bike suspension and after all's done i wanted to give it some "photorealism" look. I then saw max for the 1st time and tryed to manage the best way to export my project to max. After some experiences, the best format i found was the .stl format. even with the minimum subdivisions, my opened model in max was really high poly...i never founded a good way to export it low poly, so i'm not sure if its possible Tylerdurden...

I've never tryed to use deepexploration by that time, but it can make it possible maybe...with deepexploration, just try to export your slw file to .obj format. obj files are healthy to open in o2, so it seems a good idea.

So...if you are really interested to invest your time in modelling to this game or another game, just decide yourself for a cg tool like max,xsi,maya,modo,blender,cinema4d,zbrush,etc. There's thousands of great video tutorials out there for all of them, so in a couple of months of determination, you can make your models for arma look pro. Learn how to do proper textures to a model, and good uv mapping. that's my honest advise but you'r free to insist in cad softwares for gamming!!

[tylerdurden 0]

Thanks for all for good advises. I'm interested in modelling for ArmA and try to find proper tools for me. I just was curious why people will not use CAD for game modelling. Obviously high polycount is one reason, but maybe it can be handled. I am also interested to hear, if any others have experience converting from CAD-models to game models.

At this time I have not any experience for 3DS or Oxygen. I'll try to make me more familiar with them and learn more 3D-modelling, when I have more time and motivation. Maybe closest thing for them was Real3D at good, old Amiga. Badly, there is too much time for those days, so I can't remember much of that.

This is maybe little offtopic, but it's my topic, so I have to ask, have anyone ever used Real3D or do you know that?

[telejunky 0]

Im using SolidEdge with academic licence...I try to model a locomotive für some > railways <, Alex.Sworn is working on. At this time the loc is only a grey box, so i want to help him.

He is using SolidWorks on his own and he saves the files as a wireframe model and it works look at his own La Samula.