Advanced Medicine (Medics)

[acog99 0]

A few days ago, I had clicked on a link to a arma video at youtube, and in the side scroll area, I just picked one at random. It was a nicely done movie no doubt, but what I saw really struck me as something missing..I saw a infantry dragging a wounded infantry into a building while under fire. The wounded man was sitting kind of slouched over and the "helper" had a fist near his neck and was ooching him inside.

Did I dream this?

Is it possible and I am not aware of it?

Now on to what I was thinking about. With the release of Spectres Real M203 addon/mod, I was thinking about the same thing, but for the medic. IMO medics got the shaft with just simple healing. (I think what I have in mind would require a advanced damage and bleeding system in place to work, not sure)

Medics could carry say, seven 30 round mags, maybe 1 or 2 M67's, but here is where the fun starts..They also carry 3-5 bags of IV solution, trama kits, morphine etc. All the goodies I know they carry in those packs. When a player was wounded, the medic gets close and a script tells him to "examine extent of injuries" so he does...time passes and the script pops up and says (depending on damage and location) "Bullet wound to left thigh, clean exit." The medic then has to pick which part of his kit will will help most; administer IV drip, give pain killers etc etc. And then the medic stays with the wounded until a air medivac can be called in, or IFV/AFV's can arrive for medivac via ground.

It's a temp fix in combat, and the wounded soldier may fight on, but prolonged exposure to the stress and rigors of combat may excite his injuries to a state that the medic cannot deal with, and he dies.

After treatment has been administered, the effects are not forever lasting. They are only a temporary bandaid until a Medical Stryker can arrive with its more advanced facilities. If the unit does not evac their wounded friend, he is sure to die.

Now, (sorry, this is longer then I had expected it to be) is any of this doable now that the tools have been given to us, and if so, would it work well? (in theory at least)

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm sure the logic of it could be done, and after seeing what other people have demonstrated their GUI skills to be I'm sure that the implementation could be done too. It would be a major work to be sure, and would sit well with the realism crowd however the pubes would hate it. (which is good enough reason in itself to do it )

I'd extend the functionality to ordinary soldiers too. Not to the same skill level (i.e. not a total heal) but enough to be useful, if there's no medic about. Be great for those no-respawn games

[acog99 0]

Common soldier could have "combat lifesaver skills" and do some minor, very minor things. But a medic could start a IV drip, which helps in blood loss, to keep the players screen from shaking like mad from "pain" morphine is used. (overdo it and he dies from overdose, or you simply lower his systolic to low and he dies)

[Kerry 0]

That was SLX mod!

Solus is kikin ass on it as we speek.... I think.

I have early beta, and i sitll play it every day!

All I have to say is, get ready for it! Itle be the high light of ArmA!

btw, yes you can dragg fallen, or wounded comrades. You can even dragg enemy, give enemy or friendly first aid, destroy their weapon or take it, then take them hostage!

its a truly amazing mod!

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

In real life army/infantry in Sweden "EVERY"

person/soldier/officer has a FIRST:AID kit..

With it His buddy or someone else can help

stopping large bloodloss and shield open

wonds from getting even messier..

That would be an awsome addon. And to

actually make every soldier on the battle

ground able to give first aid. If you make

an addon that i have seen disscussions

about were you have bleeding to death

you could give first aid just so the wounded

makes it until the Grp.Medic arrives...

Edit:

I just realized...

You could do a whole line of medical persons.

1: First Aid from your buddies..RED STAGE

2: Grp.Medic takes over...YELLOW STAGE 1

3: Wounded personel are moved to secure

area were Pl.Medic takes over at the Field.Medic Location

..YELLOW STAGE 2

4: Wounded are move to Field.Hospital

were the DOCTOR take over...GREEN STAGE..

Ready for Battle

Ofcourse if your wound is in yellow stage 2 you wouldnt need

to be transfered to F.H. The Gr.Medic could also heal from

YS2 to Green..But if the wound is RED he would have to be

transfered to F.H

Goddamn im editing again.....

It would be cool to have this in EVO...So awsome, instead of

having to Die and respawn or revive. You could be transfered

to diffrent MedicalPlaces. Like Gr.Wounded.Relocation.Spot,

Field.Medic, Field.Hospital.

Edit: AGAIN

We would need new infclasses:

Field Medic

Doctor..

We already have Grp.Medic

[abs 2]

I haven't played around with medics/configs in ArmA yet, but I remember that we didn't have our JTF2 guys configured as medics because they would attempt to heal themselves in the middle of a firefirght, and then get shot while healing. Does anyone know if this still exists? If it does, it may not be a good idea to give every soldier the ability to heal.

Abs

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Well could it be scripted to not be able to heal one self..

Only your buddie..

[abs 2]

Well could it be scripted to not be able to heal one self..

Only your buddie..

Same problem if two people get wounded. They both heal each other and get shot

Abs

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Your talking about AI right...

Do they even go to the medic as it is now

without someone telling them to...??

[smookie 11]

I was working on that while ago, it works in SP but cant get the shit out of it to work in MP.

[Cpl. Hicks 0]

I like the sound of that Acog99, i was also thinking of a similar thing a while ago but because my modding skills are next to nil then it was just an idea.

What i was thinking was that once the medic has secured the wounded temporarily then the Medevac stryker / Black hawk whatever would arive and load up the wounded, but i wouldnt have the ability to heal them just stabilize them so they wouldnt die, then they would be taken to a med station behind the line to be healed. Well thats just an idea you might like to think about.

Anyway, your idea sounds promising. Whatever you decide to do with it i'm looking forward to it

[Casimir 0]

i think i saw somthing like this on a OFP video, and i would love it on arma, they are medivac helicopter but whats the point if a medic can do it anyway?

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Well there could be diffrent stages.

Red. Need to be evacuated to FieldHospital

Yellow 1. Need Evac to F.H

Yellow 2. Can be handled by Field Medic (New Class)

Yellow 3. Can be handled by Grp.Medic (The one we have

now)

Thus:

Yellow2 can be stabelized by Grp.Medic for evac to F.Medic.

Yellow1 can be Stabelized by F.Medic for evac to F.Hospital.

If a soldier gets a "Red" Wound he can be stabilized for evac

to F.Hospital either from point of battle or from F.Medics

location. The same with Y2 and 3. A F.Hospital must have

a "Doctor" (New Class and Officer, Captain) to be working.

If yellow2 and red wounds are not treated at F.H the patient/soldier

will bleed to death. And respawn...

these are my 50c of thoughts...

Edit:

Just realized, we need a new Field Hospital..

That puni one we got will not be enough to

be called "Field Hospital". Atleast 4-5 tents

in a group..With a helipad some were in the

vacinity...

[Kerry 0]

In the SLX beta i have, im pretty sure everyone can heal each other... It doesnt repair you to full, but its enough to move.

I think its everyone.. if not its only SF.

[paragraphic l 2]

atm in SLX every soldier is able to bandage wounded units to stop the bleeding, and there are scenarios where even the current medic is not able to heal a wounded unit but only stabilize... but there is nothing implemented yet to be able to heal those units (as far as i know)

[lifeguard532 0]

It all sounds great to me, i would definitely play it for the added realism. though looking from the perspective of a hardcore gamer whos hell bent on winning, he isnt gonna call a medivac. cause that jus takes time, effort and man power (as it does in real life) which means less men on the line. You loose a shooter if he dies, you loose a shooter if u attempt (emphasis on attempt) a casevac. you *might* loose the shooter if u leave him in place. from a cold hearted point of view, you wont call in the 9-line medivac cause it jus deprives you of manpower.

But I say hell yea

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Well, cant say your wrong couse i dont think you are..

But it WOULD add a nice touch to realizm    

[wolfsblut_ 0]

I would also appreciate to see this stuff in a coop-mission. The fact that i find less and less guys who play arma as a run-and-gun-game gives me a spike of hope :)

[Commando84 0]

Well could it be scripted to not be able to heal one self..

Only your buddie..

Same problem if two people get wounded. They both heal each other and get shot

Abs

Abs Abs thats why you got a third person covering them while they heal eachother happened to me once in Arma that 1 guy was healing another guy and then i was just waiting for them to get back to the fight so i watched them, then suddenly i saw a opfor going towards them and i aimed and shoot him down

saving 2 lifes with 1 or something like that.

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Thats what you do in real life. Only there you have like 4-6

guys providing cover...

[frederf 0]

Excerpt from thread on Dyslexci.com forums re: ACE mod and their proposed medical system (29 June 2007)

Quote[/b] ]Below is a more detailed outline of what I envision the medical system look like. Your input is welcome and encouraged. The entire idea behind this system is to bring a new level of immersion and cooperation to players within ArmA.

In default ArmA, medics completely heal any wounded player within 30 seconds. I want to make the medic class something that requires more skill than simply standing next to someone. I also want to encourage players to use medics/ambulances/aid stations much more effectively. I envision firefights where squads are taking causalities and the platoon or squad leader must determine if he can continue to push forward. He must also decide where to have a casualty collection point so that the medic/s can do his work in a safe area. For those seriously wounded, he has to figure out how to get them off the front lines and back to the ambulance or aid stations.

On timing in general, I am sure I will have to adjust the timing I have below, but my reasoning for the timing stated here is that I want the medics to be important in a fight, I want medical healing times to have a larger impact on the action/outcome of a firefight, I want the players to really try hard not to get wounded in the first place as it takes some real time to be healed up, and I want to bring in an element of real combat that had yet to really be demonstrated in a game. Specifically, I have the ambulances taking a relatively long time (compared to the other methods). The reason for this is I want the human element of getting the job done right to be fused into ACE. Relying on an automated process (see below) works but is sort of *cheating* in my book. Lastly, the aid stations heal players very quickly as I want to encourage leaders to make the decision and put in the effort to get a seriously wounded player back to the station. This will, I hope add the real need for medivac pilots/drivers. Right now, pilots spend most of their time flying troops to LZs (relatively boring) or providing CAS (exciting but rare). I think giving them this added responsibility will encourage players to learn how to become better pilots (as it will likely happen more often and is both exciting and dangerous).

Ok, on to the system itself:

Field Bandages and Buddy-Aid:

Each player will be able to select a bandage as a magazine/ruck sack item (like WGL). They can carry as many as they want and can pass them to each other (work out how later). Once shot, a player will begin to bleed (if wounded enough). When this occurs, an action item, APPLY FIELD DRESSING will appear.

If selected, the player will attempt to apply a field dressing. This process will take approximately 15 seconds. If successful (bandages will have a 30% success rate), then the player stops bleeding. The player is not affected in any other way (meaning they don’t get better at all, they just don’t get any worse).

If another player is nearby (within 2 meters), he automatically gives “Buddy-Aid.†Buddy-Aid will increase the likelihood of successful application of the field-dressing to 90%.

Medics:

A medic (A) runs up to a wounded (B) player. A can select action to DRAG B. A can select action to DIAGNOSE B.

If DRAG is selected, B remains prone on the ground (would be nice to get him flipped over), and then is "linked" to A. [<-- Non-medics will also have this ability to anyone wounded if they can't get up (50% or whatever).] When A is done dragging, A selects STOP DRAGGING and B is released.

If/when DIAGNOSE is selected, a DIALOGUE is brought up (which means that the medic can't move until it is closed).

The DIALOGUE will allow for the medic to DIAGNOSE B. Depending upon the amount of damage, the DIAGNOSIS process will take different amounts of time. I think a 10% damage : 5 second rule of thumb will work.

The dialogue will then state what is wrong with B. I would love to do this in a more or less accurate way - such that if a person was shot in the leg and the chest, the information returned to A will be accurate. Of course, we will have to be creative in the exact damage done.

Then A will select a TREATMENT section of the dialogue and have to properly select the appropriate steps and/or actions.

Once done, A will select APPLY TREATMENT which will calculate the correct responses as well as take more time (again, a 10:5 ratio should work). If the player answers correctly, the player can be healed back up to the maximum for a medic (see below).

If the medic selects wrong answers, the percentage of healing is reduced. I also think that if the medic gets less than 50% correct, the injured player will actually get worse. I think a fair ratio of correct answers to increased health is:

For every correct answer, the player’s health can increase 5%

For every incorrect answer (above 50%), the player’s health can decrease 5%

So, if a player is wounded to 75%, the medic will diagnose the injured player and receive a number of symptoms and then a number of options for treatment. I think one question per 5% of health should be appropriate (but this can change.) So, with 75% damage, that means the medic will have 15 questions. If he answers these all correctly, the player will return to the maximum allowed for medics (see below). However, if the medic answers only 10 correctly, the most the injured player can improve is to 58 or 60%. If the medic only answers 2 correctly, the player’s health will drop from 75% to 95% injured. I will have to create a chart that shows the curve for increase/decrease as I am confusing myself as I am trying to type this out… argh.

I also want to include a script which will limit a player’s “health†to go no higher than 75% when treated by a medic. When treated at a vehicle, a player’s health can return to 100%.

Timing Examples:

B is wounded 17%

A begins diagnosis (10 seconds for complete diagnosis – rounding up)

A selects appropriate treatment (15 seconds)

A treats B (10 seconds)

Total Time needed for treatment: 35 seconds

B is wounded 67%

A begins diagnosis (35 seconds for complete diagnosis – rounding up)

A selects appropriate treatment (15 seconds)

A treats B (35 seconds)

Total Time needed for treatment: 85 seconds

B is wounded 93%

A begins diagnosis (45 seconds for complete diagnosis – rounding up)

A selects appropriate treatment (15 seconds)

A treats B (45 seconds)

Total Time needed for treatment: 105 seconds

Ambulances:

Ambulances are vehicles which can completely heal a player, thus returning them to full health.

When a wounded player is (placed) inside an ambulance (will only work when inside), his health is slowly restored. No other player needs to be in the ambulance for this to work – I know its not the most realistic, but it will work for this game.

The rate of increase will be 1% every 5 seconds the player is inside the vehicle.

I think this will encourage players to use the medic to heal people up most of the way, and then send them back to the ambulance.

Timing Examples:

17% wounded = 85 second recovery time (~ 1.5 minutes)

67% wounded = 335 seconds (~ 5.5 minutes)

93% wounded = 465 (~7.75 minutes)

Hospitals and Aid Stations:

Hospitals and Aid Stations are static locations which can completely heal a player, thus returning them to full health.

When a wounded player is inside the perimeter of a Hospital or Aid Station (this perimeter can be larger than the physical object – i.e. simulating the helo LZ, his health is slowly restored. No other player needs to be in the area for this to work.

The rate of increase will be 2% every 1 second the player is inside the vehicle.

I think this will encourage players to use the medic to heal people up most of the way, and then send them back to the ambulance.

Timing Examples:

17% wounded = 9 second recovery time (~ .15 minutes)

67% wounded = 34 seconds (~ 0.5 minutes)

93% wounded = 47 seconds (~0.75 minutes)

[acog99 0]

Wonderful! It's already been dreamed up, but I have not heard of ACE releasing anything? Didn't I hear of them disbanding or some such?