Aurora & cold war 2

[Iron+Cross 0]

Hey about the Aurora as i was asked i found some cool stuff on it. check this website got other stuff on it (Crap in my opion) but the aurora has some foundation.

Aurora bomber

so here's one of the new cold war weapons were talking about.

Remember Faster is better now As Stealth is Negated by Russian Tamra systems, they even brought one to an Air show in the UK, to test it on an F117. & i think it can be fitted to a MANPAD (not sure on that point though)

As for who started it well i guese we will never know as there is so much playing with exspensive toys that we pay for, & lie's on lies its pointless to ask.

But i always judge by actions not words.. pretend your def & watch the news...a picture speaks a thousand words..

as for propaganda.

here have a look at this.

Quote[/b] ](CBS/AP) Foreign firefighters and aircraft joined the battle Tuesday against blazes in southern Greece, and officials expressed optimism that wildfires burning some of the country's lushest landscape could be brought under partial control.

The fires, which began about five days ago, have killed at least 64 people and burned olive groves, forests and orchards. Beyond the loss of life and environmental damage, Greece braced for the economic impact of the worst wildfires in memory, with the government budgeting upward of $410 million for immediate relief. The bill was expected to be much higher, the finance ministry said.

In remote places where there has been little help fighting fires, there are bitter complaints that it's all the government's fault, reports CBS News correspondent Richard Roth.

Greek officials blame arson for the widespread fires, adds Roth. But whatever caused them, the government's response to the emergency has now become the country's other burning issue.

The destruction and deaths have infuriated Greeks and appear likely to dominate political debate before early general elections scheduled for Sept. 16.

The fire department said 56 fires broke out from Monday to Tuesday. The worst were concentrated in the mountains of the Peloponnese in the south and on the island of Evia north of Athens, spokesman Nikos Diamandis said.

He said most of the efforts would be concentrated in those two regions, with most of the firefighters that have arrived from 17 countries operating in the Peloponnese.

In addition to the fires, a strong earthquake with a preliminary magnitude of 4.7 struck southern Greece on Tuesday, the U.S. Geological Survey said. There were no immediate reports of damage or injuries.

The Athens Geodynamic Institute reported that the quake struck about noon and had an epicenter 115 miles west of Athens, or nine miles east of Pyrgos near Ancient Olympia. The quake panicked residents in the region and was felt in areas where firefighters were battling blazes.

Meanwhile, a group of 55 Israeli firefighters would be used to assist in combating one of the worst fires in Krestena, near Ancient Olympia. Large parts of the world heritage site, which was the birthplace of the Olympic Games, were burned over the weekend.

Diamandis said that 18 planes and 18 helicopters - including four from Switzerland - would be used in the southern firefighting effort.

"The picture we have gives us some optimism" in the south, Diamandis said. "We have a good picture and hope for some good results."

Diamandis asked people to heed instructions from authorities and evacuate villages when asked to do so. Greece's civil defense agency said there was a high risk of fires around the country Tuesday because of high winds and temperatures, especially in the Athens region.

From the northern border with Albania to the southern island of Crete, fires ravaged forests and farmland. Residents used garden hoses, buckets, tin cans and branches in desperate - and sometimes futile - attempts to save their homes and livelihoods.

In some villages, firefighters sent helicopters or vehicles to evacuate the residents, only to find people insisting on staying to fight the blaze.

"We are asking people to be calm and to follow orders," Diamandis said.

A helicopter airlifted five people to safety Monday from the village of Prasidaki in southern Greece, fire department spokesman Yiannis Stamoulis said. Another was sent to the village of Frixa, but the residents refused to leave, he said.

The destruction was so extensive that authorities said they had no way of knowing how many acres have burned - or how many people had been injured.

New blazes broke out faster than others could be brought under control, leaving behind a devastated landscape of blackened tree trunks, gutted houses and charred animal carcasses.

© MMVII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Now ill mark out a couple of words that They have highlighted so subtely,

So ask yourself's what was the point in highlighting "on there part" this small snippet about the Israli fire fighters when other countries donated far more, in terms of hardware man power & aid? this is part of our cold war.. & it never realy stoped if you can see this, & start to notice it, you need to logicly dissect all the information that is presented to you, youl start to notice it, i probably missed some things there myself as no one is perfect.

Id also like to point out this Story & in perticular the section i highlighted, was used on Yahoo as there own report in conjunction with AP/CBS so it kinda looks like the "free press" are all reading from the same book?

well next thing would be to take a look at the 2007 Officer marine field manual from the U.S it has alot of information on how to wage Psycological warfare on the streets.

What i found amsuing was that they (U.S marine manual) stated you have to know the truth/history, before you can make a good (in essance a lie) but they worded it more Eloquently than i could.

(its called word manipulation)

So what more "wonderful" things can we expect..?

[churnedfortaste 0]

What have the forest fires got to do with there being another cold war?

[Sennacherib 0]

What have the forest fires got to do with there being another cold war?

same question

[Baff1 0]

I have no idea what this post is on about.

Aliens, Cold War, Israeli Firefighters?

Sort of magic mushroom conversation for me. I can't follow it.

[billybob2002 0]

Oh please. The United States isn't trying to start up a new Cold War because its hands are tied up now with Iraq and Afghanistan. Furthermore, Iron+Cross, I'm totally lost by your post.

[echo1 0]

Perhaps the Israeli firefighters thing was mentioned because they are protecting one of the most famous historical sites in the world? Its not how many of them there are, or what country theyre from, its just that what theyre doing is particularily important?

And as for the Aurora, even if it wasnt invented by some geeky teenager with too much time on his hands, what does it prove? That the Americans want better technology? No shit. I dont think it proves that American wants another cold war.

Btw, never trust a site that claims that "ET is visiting us in aircraft powered by antimatter..."

[Dwarden 1124]

Quote[/b] ]Russian Tamra

erm what You speak about russian Tamara systems ?

You mean Czech(oslovakia) passive radar system named Ramona and Tamara ...

many of them are deployed in ex-Soviet countries

one Ramona is definitely deployed in North Korea

also they not man portable roflcopter

Ramona and Ramona-M needs thirteen+ Tatra trucks and Tamara needs eight+ for transportation ...

yet the system is from 80s and don't match todays standards

modernized newest system Vera wasn't sold to Russia ...

there is also Kolgucha from Ukraine yet from what it seems it's copied off Ramona/Tamara

also Aurora is quite old concept ...

[Commando84 0]

I dont think us tries to start another cold war, it just tries to move forward like it always been doing tech-wise at least..

lol got me thinking of aurora bombers from c&c generals game.

its said in the game description to fly in subsonic speed and impossible to be hit by any weapons until it drops it bombs and it slows down. a bit unreal especially the last part about slowing down after it dropped its bombs.

Imo best weapon for the future should be some big kick ass satelite that shoots down laser down to the ground and blasts off anything in 1 km radius or so. kind of like the Ion cannon in c&c 3 tiberium wars...

[USSRsniper 0]

lol Russia can only now detect stealth airplanes?    I though they could do this long time ago..... All fo these stealth aicraft are only good against countriel such as Iraq, but still not sure about this. F-117 got destroyed in Yugoslavia with some ancient anti-aircraft systems.

Competition between countries over weapon systems never stopped, eventhough Cold War ended... Cold War is more then just developing new weapons, and who has best weapons.

[Iron+Cross 0]

Ok well this was ment to carry on from the other thread about Cold war which was closed for no good reason (try punishing the individuals not the thread)

I dident realise it would atract so many negative vibes..

Quote[/b] ]What have the forest fires got to do with there being another cold war?

Well its part of Propaganda &  thats part of any type of war,

basicly make one party sound goo & another bad, thought it was relevent just ading some material to talk about.  

@ baff

Quote[/b] ] check this website got other stuff on it (Crap in my opion) but the aurora has some foundation.

Try reading, its just some info on Aurora or X-43 i remember waching a documentry on X-planes & this one was origonaly designed to replace, the existing craft (which is mounted atop a ICBM) used for "pop-up" missions, but there are a few ive read of, so im not sure which is being used, but one of the features of the X-43 was supposed to be for los space orbit. im not sure what the rusky's are using though.

Quote[/b] ]erm what You speak about russian Tamara systems ?

You mean Czech(oslovakia) passive radar system named Ramona and Tamara ...

many of them are deployed in ex-Soviet countries

one Ramona is definitely deployed in North Korea

also they not man portable  roflcopter

Couldent remember the name it was an Inlaw who works for RAF told me about it over a Cider never saw the spelling b4 so sorry,

As for it being Czech/Slovak dident know that he jsut told me, it was a Russian AAA site that deployed it during the airshow for display, & the operators boasted it could detect "F-15's & other stealth fighters." Sorry If the real world conflicted with your views.

& as for not man portable well..

Quote[/b] ]& i think it can be fitted to a MANPAD (not sure on that point though)

I heard about "Tamara" system after Kosovo, & the news reported that possibly a "MANPAD" had shot down a stealth plane during Kosovo, so it sounded like Tamra when i thought about it.

Thanks for info though I can tell my grand father that he will like to hear it came from our country.

Quote[/b] ]lol Russia can only now detect stealth airplanes?

Did i say that?  

Quote[/b] ]Competition between countries over weapon systems never stopped, eventhough Cold War ended...  

I Agree but the cold war never stoped it just got boaring to the media, & a few recent russian leaders have just rolled over & done as teh west told em to.

Quote[/b] ]Cold War is more then just developing new weapons, and who has best weapons

The cold war is about Politics, Money, & Ideoligy, one of the Core fears of the U.S was that somthign called a "domino effect" would happen in the Pacific/Asia, read up about it its very cool idea but driven by fear & there for fundamentaly wrong.

[Baff1 0]

Sorry Iron I really did try and read that link.

But after so many paragraphs of Aliens I had to give up before the Aurora part. There came a point where I have so little confidence left in the author that no matter what he writes aboujt anything for the rest of his life I will not be intrested in it. The website crossed this line very early on.

Actually I'm not so intrested in the Aurora as much as I am in discussing the present Cold War-esque climate.

I don't think competition between countries at the end of the Cold War was limited to technology. I think that the U.S. and the E.U. attempted to push the advantage strategically also, by romancing/usurping the former Warsaw pact countries and offering them NATO alliances or E.U. memberships.

[Iron+Cross 0]

I totaly agree but im not sure how ist going, but my best thoughts would be Taiwan flashpoint?? whats yours?

As for "the website", i said it was a load of crap, lol i just used the link as it had some pics on it & i couldent be arsed posting direct image links, so that probably my fault, that most took it out of context all at once purly out of the goodness of there little arts..

[Commando84 0]

wouldn't it be easier if russia just joined nato just for the fun of it? hell they could just leave if they want too... but i guess old generals in russia and us would go crazy of that thought

[jakerod 254]

wouldn't it be easier if russia just joined nato just for the fun of it?    hell they could just leave if they want too... but i guess old generals in russia and us would go crazy of that thought  

I thought Russia joined NATO a few years back? Or was I misinformed?

[Iron+Cross 0]

Nope,

Nato Wanted to basicly dictate to Russia.

Russia was Threatend into Sending daily/hourly reports (not sure which) to NATO Central command, with all there troop movments &

Stocks & where everything is how much & where its going to, aslo if The Russian Federation wanted to moved forces around its own country (untill recently 2007) it basicly had to ask permission from NATO.. which was brought on by Yeltsin & the rest, who just wanted to stop NATO's agression.

Now Normally Nato members have access to this information together, it would be like playing taxes OR ELSE, sort of thing & geting no services..

very "Civilised"

here is NATO member list.

NATO MEMBERS LIST

here is the lead up to 1997 (last time you watched the news i take it?? lol, dont blame you)

Lead up news article

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

wouldn't it be easier if russia just joined nato just for the fun of it?    hell they could just leave if they want too... but i guess old generals in russia and us would go crazy of that thought  

I thought Russia joined NATO a few years back? Or was I misinformed?

Only in the book "The Bear and the Dragon" by Tom Clancy AFAIK...

As for the Aurora plane having to slow down to drop any payload, I wonder why it would have to do that? I mean, it's not as if bombs are all conventional, they have guidance and all... Heck, Aurora could even launch missiles at speed, they'd find their targets, with GPS and all...

As for technology, all countries want better stuff, because as time goes by their inventory gets obsolete, and the cutting edge is always pushing forwards...

As for the notion of a satelite weapon, I don't know, but wasn't there any agreement that stated that no weapons should be deployed to space? At least aimed at Earth... And energy weapon technology doesn't seem capable of issuing ion cannons etc... I think the next big thing will be railguns, deployed on warships, which kind of would give reason to invest in nuclear-powered vessels, since railguns take up massive amounts of energy I think... Lasers so far are only good for intercepting missiles by heating them up to the point of either disconcertion of their guidance systems or explosion of their payload... and still require a relatively large amount of energy for what they do... After railguns I think the next effective thing will be plasma weaponry, if that ever comes into existence, what do you think?

[Baff1 0]

America has blocked any invitation of Russia to NATO.

It's not enough for them to win the Cold War, they need to see the other side lose.

I think projectile weaponry is going to be the next high tech revolution.

Anti-missile systems.

A missile is cheaper than an aeroplane or a ship or a tank, but a bullet is cheaper than a missile.

Robots are on the rise too.

[Iron+Cross 0]

Good point Baff1, but i think H.E.R.F Pusle Generators are even Cheaper "per shot", & not detectable by humans.

although in order i think? (a little off topic on my part)

#1 Fused explosive rounds linked to a crude radar was 1st.

#2 Gatling guns & anti missle-missles linked to Radar is current.(wonder if they ever made anti-anti missles) hehe.

#3 Is Probably a mixture of METAL STORM systems, Airborne Pulsed lasers, & HERF Pulse Generators

I thought the Aurora was just for recon?

[MATRA 0]

Quote[/b] ]America has blocked any invitation of Russia to NATO.

Can you prove that.

A cople of weeks I saw an interview with the ambassador of Russia here in Portugal, where he said that even if the NATO invites them, they couldn´t accept.

Same thing for joining tge European Union.

The Cause: Russia is a huge country, it have frontiers with Asia and Europe and he said that an average citizen from Vladivostok doent see himself as an European.

As for NATO, Russia have their own strategic/political agenda.

[Iron+Cross 0]

well Matra good luck with finding the data it will be along quest for you, not that you wont find it you will but it will take a while.

mean while

Quote[/b] ]A cople of weeks I saw an interview with the ambassador of Russia here in Portugal, where he said that even if the NATO invites them, they couldn´t accept.

can you prove this i dont belive you... well i dont mean that the reason you dident add a link to the news story you saw that was on, is because you cant be arsed like the rest of us, it dosent mean its a lie just because you dident add a link m8.

But whilst were on this point i think that after all the hastle they have had to put up with, & the "guy next door" building a missle shield on your door stop (not the 1st time), kinda puts a little bit of a damper on that idea.

& the E.U wants the individual states of Russia, but not actual Indipendant Russia, this is part of a larger NATO strategy of dismantling your foe, ecenomicly, Moraly, Politicaly, & Militarly.

as for the Vladivostok or even Kamchatka, thats like comparing,

Thats like saying all those (im using "those" because i cant be arsed finding the names of em) Islands former Danish/Spanish Colony's that have started to use Euro's i mean com one Some of them are in the Pacific, west Afrika & they use euro's & are europeian citizens.

[Baff1 0]

I don't see the the EU and NATO manouverings as part of the same team.

I think the EU is looking to set up a rival strategic alliance to NATO.

It's a whole new block.

I think the missile shield is more of a catalyst than a prime motivator for Russia's current stance.

I think it's the straw that broke the camels back, the final insult in a long litany of insults, rather than a deadly serious threat to Rusian security.

I think the expansion of Nato and the expansion of EU closer to Russia's borders is a far more alarming prospect.

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

BUZZARD @ Sep. 04 2007,11:48)]As for the notion of a satelite weapon, I don't know, but wasn't there any agreement that stated that no weapons should be deployed to space? At least aimed at Earth... And energy weapon technology doesn't seem capable of issuing ion cannons etc... I think the next big thing will be railguns, deployed on warships, which kind of would give reason to invest in nuclear-powered vessels, since railguns take up massive amounts of energy I think... Lasers so far are only good for intercepting missiles by heating them up to the point of either disconcertion of their guidance systems or explosion of their payload... and still require a relatively large amount of energy for what they do... After railguns I think the next effective thing will be plasma weaponry, if that ever comes into existence, what do you think?

I think your right on target here.  The potential for this type of weapon is great for several reasons.

1. Cost - With no need for chemical propelants such as in shells or missles, and the ability to double the amount of projectiles that can be carrried on naval vessels, this is very attractive.

2. Range - With a range of nearly 300 nautical miles, a gps guided projectile can stike a target and destroy it using kinetic energy alone.  All while in the case of a Navy ship, it remains far beyond the range of counter batteries.

3. Deployment potential - The Navy is most suited to take advantage of this technology at its current level.  Continuing research is attempting to scale down the weapon and power pack for use on an armored vehicle, and even for use as a way to launch mortar rounds.

4. Accuracy - Assuming the GPS does its job, a non explosive kinetic round can take out nearly any target short of a reinforced bunker.  All important in our concern with the buzzword "collateral damage."  If the aluminum slug launched from a ship at mach 7 needs to cause damage to a more wide area, an air burst over the target will send down splinters of metal at a nasty velocity.

Furthur, the potential for spaced based kinetic weapons has long been understood.  A 500 pound (or less) GPS guided bomb that can be launced from an orbiting satallite has great advantages.  There is no risk to a manned aircraft.  The kinetic energy from the "fall" would increase lethality.  And it can deploy against a target with minimal delay that would be far greater in tasking a bomber for instance.  A space based rail gun would have similar advantages, and also posses the additional ones associated with this type of weapon.

I'm sure Lasers are the future.  But for now this is the big gun.

Good call Buzzard.  I enjoyed wasting some sleep time reading about the potential of this kind of weapon.  

Here is some of the stuff I read if you want to take a look.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002514.html

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,123818,00.html

http://www.defensereview.com/modules....sid=723

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/bae-pro....n-01986

On a side note, I found this cool website on how to make a home made Gauss Rifle experiment.

http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/gauss.html

[mattxr 9]

Iron+Cross are you a Jehovah's Witness?

The type that goes door to door saying a Cold War is starting and thy shall need to build a bomb shelter?

[Iron+Cross 0]

yes and no matt However i do say you will need to buy my Silk Lined NBC proof Bible for 500 Euro's each, because you will need it. & hey at least one of us will be able to afford to move to south Chile.

I presume your jokeing as i am lol, My Sig is Buddy Christ out of that wierd film because i Just LOVED the statue, why should they all look the same! (within Respectable parameters)

(I got my Name from playing DoD on half-life YEars & Years ago b4 flashpoint as in Iron cross of a Sniper scope...)

As for "super" weapons..

Well I still Think HERF & EMP's are the winner..have a look.

Winner

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Neither H.E.R.F. nor EMP is new - actually, supposedly nukes create EMP shockwaves when they detonate... EMP is only coming into relevance now because the whole world is getting more digital, including the military, which is more and more vulnerable to such strikes. Wasn't there a thread about H.E.R.F. being tested on top of a Humvee and/or M113 as a large crowd-control device? It could serve as a measure to fry biological and electronic opponents, but not deal real hardware damage) ... As for lasers, they're nothing but photonic energy (meaning a cooled mirror could serve as armor), whereas plasma comes with some punch-through technology, if particle projection beams can be developed, since it then carries mass, at extreme velocities...