08 U.S. Presidential race

[red oct 2]

Note: I made this thread separately from US politics because i wanted to focus 08 elections and what candidate would be best for the US. Discussions tend to change too much in US politics thread anyway.

Anyway,

heres a recap of the 08 candidates (there's a lot of them)

Democrats

Joe Binden

Hillary Clinton

Christopher Dodd

John Edwards

Mike Gravel

Dennis Kucinich

Barack Obama

Bill Richardson

Republicans

Sam Brownback

Rudy Giuliani

Mike Huckabee

Duncan Hunter

John McCain

Ron Paul

Mitt Romney

Tom Tancredo

Constitution Party

Don J. Grundmann

Bryan Malatesta (no information)

Green Party

Elaine Brown

Mike Jingozian

Jerry Kann

Kent Mesplay

Kat Swift

Libertarian Party

Daniel Imperato

Bob Jackson

Steve Kubby

George Phillies

Wayne Root

So far im set on Ron Paul

Summery on Ron Paul's political positions:

Quote[/b] ]The political positions of Ron Paul are in line with this American politician's stance as a Constitutionalist who professes a libertarian philosophy. Accordingly, he opposes presidential autonomy and judicial activism, and rejects a welfare state or nanny state role for the federal government.[1]

Paul says that the Republican Party has lost its commitment to limited government and has instead become the party of big government.[2] He regularly votes against almost all proposals for new government spending, initiatives, or taxes.[3] His unwillingness to vote for proposals not expressly authorized by the Constitution, along with his medical degree, have earned him the nickname “Dr. No.â€

Paul supports free trade, the military "don't ask, don't tell" policy, states' rights, tighter border security, gun ownership, voluntary school prayer,[4] and a return to free market health care. He opposes abortion, capital punishment, the North American Free Trade Agreement and the World Trade Organization, the income tax, universal health care,[5] the federal War on Drugs, federal regulation of marriage, and foreign interventionism, advocating withdrawal from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the United Nations.[6] He voted against funding same-sex adoption.

couple issues i don't agree w/

His policies on Abortion and Capitol Punishment.

fortunately Capitol Punishment is decided at the State Level, so if he supports rights of the State, he's going to have to leave it alone.

and i don't like his proposed free exercise or establishment of religion. i see it as a easy way for the likes of Pat Robertson turning every public school into 700 clubs. all government buildings whether they are schools, post offices, court houses, or parks, should remain neutral in terms of religion. if individuals want to be publicly religious that's fine w/ me. so long as they aren't forcing me to convert or pray w/ them.

[simba 0]

I'll vote for Joe Binden, he's first of the list and looks like

Val Kilmer.

[Spokesperson 0]

Free market healthcare, yeah. Hell on earth. Libertarianism has just lead to misery and revolution.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I agree on Ron Paul. I'm not too keen on his talk about "God" in some interviews. I really don't wanna see another religious nutcase as a leader for any country.

[quicksand 0]

I can't even look at the Republican list.They are all nutcases as far as I'm concerned,a few of them even refute the fact of evolution(born again nutcases I suspect)  

As far as the Democrats goes I certinly hope Hilary doesn't win the nomination.While I agree on some issues with her she strucks me as shallow and empty inside.She also tries so hard to appear as she is above the other candidates and the primaries managing only to appear arrogant and annoying as far as I am concerned.

Obama impressed me alot when he said he is ready for direct talks with Iran,N Korea etc.It was a defining moment for him among the other democrats struggling to prove they have a personality and are different from each other.I hope the nomination goes to either him or Edwards for now.

[baddo 0]

I am not in a position to cast a vote in the U.S. Presidential elections, but I would like to say a couple of words.

If I could vote in the U.S. Presidential elections, I would vote for someone who...

...isn't a relative of a former U.S. President...

...isn't using religious speeches to fool people...

...isn't related to the people who wrote or helped other people to write the document "Rebuilding America's Defences: Strategies, Forces And Resources For A New Century"...

...does not have strong ties to industries which would benefit greatly from the U.S. waging wars...

...does not have strong ties to the oil industry...

...is willing to reduce the U.S. military budget significantly, and divert all the money saved into; reducing debt, improving public healthcare system, improving social security system, reducing crime in the U.S.A., putting some sense to the way too liberal gun control, reducing pollution, reducing oil-based fuels usage... directing the U.S. citizens away from gas-guzzler vehicles... ...basically into making the U.S.A. a better place to live in, instead of using ridiculous amounts of money into ruining someone else's place in addition to ruining your own place...

Well the list goes on and on, I stop here. You get the idea, I want someone to be the President of the U.S. who doesn't fuck up everything all around the World but concentrates on how to make the U.S.A. a better place.

I don't know which one of the candidates could match my wishlist so I don't make a choice here.

Why do I say a word here? Because what the U.S.A. does, unfortunately affects my life. Such a big and strong country like the U.S.A. should not be allowed to be steered by someone like G.W.B., it's way too dangerous to give such men big guns.

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

Well that list is rather depressing.  And judging from the posts so far...this will be a rather partisan election in the press.

Trying to pick from the Republican or Democrat list feels like putting a single bullet in a revolver and spinning the chamber.

Any real change will not come from those names you see...but I do hope they are forced to make some of those changes by the people.

Otherwise things will begin getting messy.

....think any of these clowns will try a Putin style "tough-guy" photo spread?  

Its hard to even imagine with this spineless bunch isn't it?  

The American version would be more like a series of photos of the politician kissing the feet of special interest groups.

Damn I'm cynical...

[Rg 0]

Any real change will not come from those names you see...

Its hard to even imagine with this spineless bunch isn't it?

The American version would be more like a series of photos of the politician kissing the feet of special interest groups.

Hear about the man......

------------------------------

Hear the man......

------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ5WrBhXI7c

See the man.......

------------------------------

"Neo-Conned" - speech by Ron Paul on the House floor on July 10, 2003.

----------------------------------------

Text - http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

Video - http://video.google.com/videopl....index=0

All I will say is that he is the one candidate that wants serious change in America.

He is not in this race for money or power, he wants the best for America and it's people.

He doesn't accept any money from special interest groups.

He has been preaching this humble message for over 30 years.

We need a wise / honest / truthful / founding father type candidate and he is this.

His message speaks for itself. I won't get in a discussion here, but if anyone wants me to post more videos, I would be glad to. There is still some hope left for America.....

[Guest Ti0n3r]

I really hope for Ron Paul. But I'm of course not 100% sure yet.

As rg7621 said, there is still some hope left...

[simba 0]

good post Baddo.

I'm gonna quote William Blum, this isn't an attack against american members,

just to remind you that it is more than time to make a wise choice, but I'm afraid that corporations have way

too much influence to let a progressist gov emerge.

Quote[/b] ]For 70 years, the United States convinced much of the world that 1 there was an international conspiracy out there. An International Communist Conspiracy, seeking no less than control over the entire planet, for purposes which had no socially redeeming values. And the world was made to believe that it somehow needed the United States to save it from communist darkness. "Just buy our weapons," said Washington, "let our military and our corporations roam freely across your land, and give us veto power over whom your leaders will be, and we'll protect you."

It was the cleverest protection racket since men convinced women that they needed men to protect them-if all the men vanished overnight, how many women would be afraid to walk the streets?

And if the people of any foreign land were benighted enough to not realize that they needed to be saved, if they failed to appreciate the underlying nobility of American motives, they were warned that they would burn in Communist Hell. Or a CIA facsimile thereof. And they would be saved nonetheless.

A decade after the fall of the Berlin Wall, America is still saving countries and peoples from one danger or another. The scorecard reads as follows: From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign govemments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.

USA is too big, let's split it.

[Major Fubar 0]

My first instinct was to lock this and point everyone to the existing USA politics thread, but I'll give people the benefit of the doubt. Next time anyone wants to create a thread so similar to an existing one for whatever reason, please PM a moderator first.

Naturally, if this thread degenerates into spam and flaming it will be locked without any further warning.

[Gisen 0]

Ron Paul sounds good except for his anti-women stuff. Definitely the best republican candidate though.

[Sertorius 0]

I'm rooting for Ron Paul .

Edit - Regarding Paul's stance towards abortion, his desire seems to be to return it to a state/local issue. He has supported legislation to prevent abortion from being legalized or banned at the federal level. I find it hard to believe that an ardent Federalist like Paul would federally ban abortion; Under a Paul presidency, it would probably remain legal in many areas.

And his foreign policy stance is a pleasant deviation from the Republican party line:

Quote[/b] ]The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies, the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. This war has cost more than 3,000 American lives, thousands of seriously wounded, and hundreds of billions of dollars. We must have new leadership in the White House to ensure this never happens again.

Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have troops in 130 countries. We are spread so thin that we have too few troops defending America. And now, there are new calls for a draft of our young men and women.

We can continue to fund and fight no-win police actions around the globe, or we can refocus on securing America and bring the troops home. No war should ever be fought without a declaration of war voted upon by the Congress, as required by the Constitution.

Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations.

Too often we give foreign aid and intervene on behalf of governments that are despised. Then, we become despised. Too often we have supported those who turn on us, like the Kosovars who aid Islamic terrorists, or the Afghan jihads themselves, and their friend Osama bin Laden. We armed and trained them, and now we’re paying the price.

At the same time, we must not isolate ourselves. The generosity of the American people has been felt around the globe. Many have thanked God for it, in many languages. Let us have a strong America, conducting open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations.

[red oct 2]

USA is too big, let's split it.

how about we not Balkanize every nation on earth shall we?

Quote[/b] ]Ron Paul sounds good except for his anti-women stuff. Definitely the best republican candidate though.

when you say anti-women, are you refering to the abortion stance or is there something else?

[billybob2002 0]

Right now, none of the above. I will likely pick one once the field thins out or someone else enters the race that I like. I would never vote for Ron Paul because, well, I don't like his views.

On a side note, I think another bet should happen again like what happened in 2004. I need another post increase. Can I go 2-0?

[Dwarden 1125]

Can't wait for some of votes after these ... with Arnie

[~Pantera~ 0]

Rudy, Obama and Edwards are my top picks I think any of them would make a good president.

Worst possible would be Hilary.

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

Rudy, Obama and Edwards are my top picks I think any of them would make a good president.

Worst possible would be Hilary.  

...wha?

This is the kind of thinking that shows Rudy is not a conservative.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

My canidate of choice is Ron Paul.

[Spokesperson 0]

I wouldn't vote for millionaires.

[~Pantera~ 0]

Rudy, Obama and Edwards are my top picks I think any of them would make a good president.

Worst possible would be Hilary.

...wha?

This is the kind of thinking that shows Rudy is not a conservative.

Nothing wrong with liking conservatives and liberals. Is there?

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

Rudy, Obama and Edwards are my top picks I think any of them would make a good president.

Worst possible would be Hilary.  

...wha?

This is the kind of thinking that shows Rudy is not a conservative.

Nothing wrong with liking conservatives and liberals. Is there?

No, I don't fault you for your opinion at all.  I applaud you for not limiting yourself to a certain party.

In many ways I just don't take Rudy seriously as a "conservative" candidate.  I just think he is a "Republican" in name only.  Same as Bushy was. I don't want so see a Bushy part deux.

I guess what I'm saying is that my cynicism keeps me from seeing any contenders that I like so far.

I'm 3-0 for calling elections and have won a bottle of scotch, about 40 bucks that actually got collected, lunch, and a date.  

So I'll be ready to bet on the outcome Billybob...but its a bit early isn't it?

[billybob2002 0]

So I'll be ready to bet on the outcome Billybob...but its a bit early isn't it?

Yeah, it is too early. Probably do another post count bet.