HDR issues and performance 1.08

[JAMF 0]

... i have 28 degrees celsius on CPU , 36 celsius on mainboard and this 76 degrees on VGA during gameplay...

Just a small observation. It looks like the temperature reporting tool (SpeedFan? MBM?) has switched the CPU and motherboard temperatures. I would say the air temperature in the case is 28C, the CPU is 36C and the VGA is correct at 76C.

If there was a chipset temperature sensor, it normally would give values between CPU and motherboard.

[vilas 477]

PC Probe and Speed Fan shows such temperatures, Noctua is very good and expensive cooler, but i have 28 celsius on CPU (CPU is EE serie, 65W) i have lower temperature on CPU than on MB, really

what concerns VGA it is on default settings, i haven't overclocked it at all

[troop 0]

Vilas, now that I've seen your setup... (picture)

I fully understand, you want silent, smooth operation;..but also

could be likely the victim of overheating components.

The big fan in front of your PC will do nothing, but generate noise.

To really *exclude* overheat as an reason for your GFX failures,

you would need to remove your case from his 'prison'

then open up the side panel and have that fan blow directly

onto your mainboard. In a max of 30 minutes (including play

test session) you know for sure.

I cannot answer your question about why 1.00-1.02 did not

behave strange for you and 1.08 does.

MadDogXs suggestion of downclocking your GFX for an test

would surely help if your PC case inside 'airflow' would be sufficient.

I think, its not. imho.

[Haf 0]

i like silence in PC, zalman on HD and things like that, i have 28 degrees celsius on CPU , 36 celsius on mainboard and this 76 degrees on VGA during gameplay

these are low temperatures, isn't it ?

thats why ARMA start from disc is annoying, time taking of noise for me and i want emulation

yes i only have 2 fans, fan on CPU has 870-1000 rpm usually

you said arma takes more, okay, but why ARMA 1.00 and 1.02 were only texture bugs and not overheating ?

Vilas,

Although Arma runs sweet on my PC (1.08) my 7950GX2 fans are running constantly. I run at highest res 1600x1050 with detail on normal and there are no 'jerkies'

So, in summary, this game really pushes the hardware and you really do need to have the hardware cooled appropriately otherwise probelms like yours will be the norm.

Cheers

Haf

[tekpc007 1]

Vilas, now that I've seen your setup... (picture)

I fully understand, you want silent, smooth operation;..but also

could be likely the victim of overheating components.

The big fan in front of your PC will do nothing, but generate noise.

To really *exclude* overheat as an reason for your GFX failures,

you would need to remove your case from his 'prison'

then open up the side panel and have that fan blow directly

onto your mainboard. In a max of 30 minutes (including play

test session) you know for sure.

I cannot answer your question about why 1.00-1.02 did not

behave strange for you and 1.08 does.

MadDogXs suggestion of downclocking your GFX for an test

would surely help if your PC case inside 'airflow' would be sufficient.

I think, its not. imho.

exactly open the side and blow it in and i bet it will be better .

[-Puma- 2]

and to add to this, u might have not experienced overheating earlier, because it was winter time, but in summer PC's are struggeling with heat issues.

And a little side note: When my cpu was at 2700ghz It never went over 55C when playing Americas army, but in arma temps go above 60C

I once accidently forgot to turn my casefans on, and in 10 minutes the game started artifactiong alot. Other time that I've seen artifactin was, when my memory was running out.

[4 IN 1 0]

it happened for me once on every single game before on my old 9500pro, basicly the fan get fucked up and not always functioning normally, it also happened in the very first begining of owning that card without overheating and stuff too, but i forgot how to fix it now, i also fries an AMD XP 2000+ on the old nF2 too, but thats another story

8800, all the crash/GFX problem didnt happened on me in ArmA since 1.01, and only appear in 1.07 without hot fix, untill it shows up in another game called S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and that forced me to reinstall my driver each week inorder to play that damn game, which have also affected my ArmA too

[vilas 477]

case removed, big fan blow, without gaming temperature is near 50, with ARMA near 70, sometimes even 90, but with this extra cooling game is playable

problem is solved , thank you all, but isn't it stupid, that PC that fulfills requirements is not enough to play normally, is it normal that i have to open PC and add extra big fan ?

my VGA was not overclocked, now i will try other setting, but since 1.08 i found that i can't enable AA, i have only one option "disabled" ?

anyway thanx for solution

[sickboy 13]

case removed, big fan blow, without gaming temperature is near 50, with ARMA near 70, sometimes even 90, but with this extra cooling game is playable

problem is solved , thank you all, but isn't it stupid, that PC that fulfills requirements is not enough to play normally, is it normal that i have to open PC and add extra big fan ?

my VGA was not overclocked, now i will try other setting, but since 1.08 i found that i can't enable AA, i have only one option "disabled" ?

anyway thanx for solution

Altough this has been explained a couple of times before:

Every game stresses the computer in a different way.

Some stress the CPU more, some stress the RAM more, some stress the GPU more, some stress this more, some stress that more.

Some stress everything more, like ArmA does... Due to it's huge, free-play nature (etc. etc) there are massive amounts of data that need to be processed in all ur components.

The easiest comparison (though extreme) one can make is this:

Your computer is almost falling asleep of boredom when you are playing a game of 2D-chess on ur computer, no components other than possibly your CPU will be stressed a bit, but that's it.

While when you play a 3d-game your computer actually must work very hard and as such also produces more warmth..

Now I don't want to compare all your other games to a 2d-chess game, but the comparison idea is a bit the same; Your other games simply stress your computer less than ArmA does.

There is software to stress your components to the max to see if the heat is handled correctly.

These tests give you a quite good assurance if your cooling is correct:

(google is your friend)

[*] Stress Prime 2004 (SP2004), you can test Memory+CPU at the same time. The Dual/Multi Core supported version is called: Orthos Prime. Try running it for 10 hours straight to get an idea about the heat/stability of your system

[*] Memtest86+ can be used to test the Memory in even different ways altough I think Stress Prime is sensitive enough

[*] 3d Mark 2006, will stress your graphicscard and some cpu+memory, try running 15 test runs after eachother (there should be some option for it)

When playing ArmA (or other 3d games) most of your components will be stressed, so it probably remains the last test in the row, after you tested if every component on it's own can operate at it's current speed and cooling.

About if it's normal to play with case open and an extra fan;

Usually it isn't, but if you have a too small case, too bad airflow, disabled coolers, coolers that run on slow-mode etc. etc. Then I guess the answer is simple :-)

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]is it normal that i have to open PC and add extra big fan ?

In your case, yes. Your comp simply doesn´t get enough air the way it´s built and stored by you. As you said it only has inner coolers but no case fans at all which is some poor setup for a comp like that. Today´s comps need airflow within the case. If you got none the hgeat is not transported outside the case and at one point the temperature inside the case will just grow too big to provide effective cooling for RAM, onboard chipset,etc.

I´m pretty sure if you had played F.E.A.R you would have got the same issue. All programs that do stress the comp very much produce an extra load of heat and that´s why you got the malfuntions with Arma in the first line. If you can help yourself a bit buy some 40mm or one 80mm fan (best with a poti to adjust speed) and install it in the case to get out the heat and provide the components with fresh air. I had a temporarely installed 40mm fan right above the RAM, I removed it this weekend and installed a 80mm fan in the side of the case blowing directly on RAM and providing a lot of fresh air for the inside. I added a "potentiometer" I got from an old radio so I can adjust the speed of the fan and works like a charm. The temperature right at the RAM went down from 45 ° to 25.6° and as the 80mm fan doesn´t need to run fast to achieve that it is very silent aswell.

Quote[/b] ]but since 1.08 i found that i can't enable AA, i have only one option "disabled"

Check your driver settings in display control panel. I bet you got AA disabled there. Set it to "application controlled" or force it at a level you feel happy with.

[maddogx 13]

Quote[/b] ]but since 1.08 i found that i can't enable AA, i have only one option "disabled"

Check your driver settings in display control panel. I bet you got AA disabled there. Set it to "application controlled" or force it at a level you feel happy with.

If HDR is set to 16 or 32 bits, AA will be disabled by default. At leat on NVidia cards.

[Balschoiw 0]

I remember that vilas toyed around with the HDR settings as he was blinded by the sun. Looks like that´s the source of this issue. Another Vilas homegrown one

[4 IN 1 0]

Quote[/b] ]but since 1.08 i found that i can't enable AA, i have only one option "disabled"

Check your driver settings in display control panel. I bet you got AA disabled there. Set it to "application controlled" or force it at a level you feel happy with.

If HDR is set to 16 or 32 bits, AA will be disabled by default. At leat on NVidia cards.

i am setting it at 32, and i am using AA on low, while the setting in control panel is somethings like 4X

and yet i still able to see AA effect, is this only me?

[Dwarden 1125]

to test multicore systems i suggest use Orthos (also based on Prime95)

there is newer Prime multithreaded build which natively supports x cores/x cpus but it's bit buggy so until you expert stay with simple to use Orthos ...

[sickboy 13]

Quote[/b] ]I remember that vilas toyed around with the HDR settings as he was blinded by the sun. Looks like that´s the source of this issue. Another Vilas homegrown one

http://www.grinningplanet.com/2004/05-13/gardener-copyright3.gif

Hahaha :-) Yep

Quote[/b] ]to test multicore systems i suggest use Orthos (also based on Prime95)

Thanks, I was going to write orthos in my post but I forgot all about it ;D

[4 IN 1 0]

wow wow wow easy guys, i wonder if anything will show up when he attemp a 3 hours run

oh BTW now that my GPU starts reaching 71 degrees unloaded due to summer time(too early this year, still june and just enter summer with 35 at midday which was usually around 30 something in hong kong, damn global warming), it seems it starts to show up vilas early problem, better check as i dont want to burn my card(and i mean real burning)

[sickboy 13]

i am setting it at 32, and i am using AA on low, while the setting in control panel is somethings like 4X

and yet i still able to see AA effect, is this only me?

They forgot to note that it's only on Nvidia Cards pre 8-Series

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]oh BTW now that my GPU starts reaching 71 degrees unloaded due to summer time(too early this year, still june and just enter summer with 35 at midday which was usually around 30 something in hong kong, damn global warming), it seems it starts to show up vilas early problem, better check as i dont want to burn my card(and i mean real burning)

Fans usually transport off the heat quite good from the coolers but you have to make sure that the case itself doesn´t heat up too much as the exchange of heat won´t work anymore than and give you undesired high temperatures.

It´s very easy to overcome that though:

Quote[/b] ]If you can help yourself a bit buy some 80mm or one 120mm fan (best with a poti to adjust speed) and install it in the case to get out the heat and provide the components with fresh air. I had a temporarely installed 80mm fan right above the RAM, I removed it this weekend and installed a 120mm fan in the side of the case blowing directly on RAM and providing a lot of fresh air for the inside. I added a "potentiometer" I got from an old radio so I can adjust the speed of the fan and works like a charm. The temperature right at the RAM went down from 45 ° to 25.6° and as the 120mm fan doesn´t need to run fast to achieve that it is very silent aswell.

There are some modding towers with numerous holdings for fans

that are quite cheap. All you need to have it silent aswell are some big 120mm PAPST fans, one at the side, one at the back to transport out the air and some potentiometers fitting the fans to regulate them. I am using a 100K Ohm potentiometer that isn´t really good for finetuning but I already had it at hand. Once set you won´t have to adjust it much anyway. I only had to cut some parts of the side out as there was a lasergrid cut fitting for 80mm fans while the intake already was for 120mm fans. Cut it, drilled some new holes for the mounting of the holes and the potentiometer handle, wired it and since then have an arctic lownoise pc that is even more silent as with the 80 mm fans I had in it before.

BTW I confused the sizes in my previous post. It´s a 120mm fan, not 80mm.

It looks like this. Still have to strip together the wires inside the comp to tidy it up but you get the idea.

[Haf 0]

case removed, big fan blow, without gaming temperature is near 50, with ARMA near 70, sometimes even 90, but with this extra cooling game is playable

problem is solved , thank you all, but isn't it stupid, that PC that fulfills requirements is not enough to play normally, is it normal that i have to open PC and add extra big fan ?

my VGA was not overclocked, now i will try other setting, but since 1.08 i found that i can't enable AA, i have only one option "disabled" ?

anyway thanx for solution

Vilas,

Excellent result, really pleased you're sorted and enjoying Arma once again!

Haf

[vilas 477]

NOT blinded by the sun NOT

sun doesnt affect eye, so what for is HDR if looking at sun make no difference

dont turn my words for 180 degrees

[Scrub 0]

Thank you all for pushing temperature as an issue to stability. Hope others will listen and try as Vilas did (congrats BTW). This was a problem for me years back, and yes, Vilas, I still have a fan blowing on my open case. Shabby solution for a heavy duty workstation, but it works.

[-Puma- 2]

Quote[/b] ]oh BTW now that my GPU starts reaching 71 degrees unloaded due to summer time(too early this year, still june and just enter summer with 35 at midday which was usually around 30 something in hong kong, damn global warming), it seems it starts to show up vilas early problem, better check as i dont want to burn my card(and i mean real burning)

Fans usually transport off the heat quite good from the coolers but you have to make sure that the case itself doesn´t heat up too much as the exchange of heat won´t work anymore than and give you undesired high temperatures.

It´s very easy to overcome that though:

Quote[/b] ]If you can help yourself a bit buy some 80mm or one 120mm fan (best with a poti to adjust speed) and install it in the case to get out the heat and provide the components with fresh air. I had a temporarely installed 80mm fan right above the RAM, I removed it this weekend and installed a 120mm fan in the side of the case blowing directly on RAM and providing a lot of fresh air for the inside. I added a "potentiometer" I got from an old radio so I can adjust the speed of the fan and works like a charm. The temperature right at the RAM went down from 45 ° to 25.6° and as the 120mm fan doesn´t need to run fast to achieve that it is very silent aswell.

There are some modding towers with numerous holdings for fans

that are quite cheap. All you need to have it silent aswell are some big 120mm PAPST fans, one at the side, one at the back to transport out the air and some potentiometers fitting the fans to regulate them. I am using a 100K Ohm potentiometer that isn´t really good for finetuning but I already had it at hand. Once set you won´t have to adjust it much anyway. I only had to cut some parts of the side out as there was a lasergrid cut fitting for 80mm fans while the intake already was for 120mm fans. Cut it, drilled some new holes for the mounting of the holes and the potentiometer handle, wired it and since then have an arctic lownoise pc that is even more silent as with the 80 mm fans I had in it before.

BTW I confused the sizes in my previous post. It´s a 120mm fan, not 80mm.

It looks like this. Still have to strip together the wires inside the comp to tidy it up but you get the idea.

"]http://www.ciahome.net/~web7_balschoiw/image/IMGP0023.jpg[/img]

shit I tought that thing was ur fan, untill I saw the real fan inside it

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]sun doesnt affect eye, so what for is HDR if looking at sun make no difference

I could swear I read some vilas post with sun-hdr somewhere. It´s not easy to keep track of all your problems at some point.

In my Arma the sun DOES blind me.

Have you altered any HDR settings ? I seem to remember that you have done that. This is why the sun does not blind you anymore. With default settings the sun does blind you and please, before you say no, that´s not the reason, just go and check it. I´ve been telling you for over a month that you have overheating issues and you simply didn´t believe it.

Quote[/b] ]shit I tought that thing was ur fan, untill I saw the real fan inside it

Yeah I´m operating the comp with my special bodysuit now as the flies tend to be supercharged when flying into the fan

[vilas 477]

i gave 16, because at 8 it is totaly annoying, small turn and environment gest so dark or so bright as on movie from Youtube:

when precision was 8 sometimes i died because when i get out from building to open are all was so dark that i couldn't see enemy

but in house all was so bright that rifle was almost like made of silver

[Balschoiw 0]

And this is why the sun doesn´t blind you anymore.

1+1 = 2